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Condemnation of AW Citizens (Community)
Condemnation of AW Citizens // Communitythe ladyAug 20, 2003, 9:55am
Any power in place that seeks to judge and condemn a people for immoral
actions by way of mental or physical torture should be routed out, disbanded and left powerless. There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their own unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead, influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be. joemanAug 20, 2003, 10:57am
.. . . I seriously don't know how to comment... I... eh... ug... eh... ble...
..... You've really gone nutters with this whole democracy/free the people idea. But, you just don't get it... AWCom is a company, they own the universe software, as well as the browser you use to get to it. What you're doing, is like building a house on someone else's land while they're living there, and disregarding the owners, and the police because you're doing what's "fair" and "right". AWCom doesn't need to meet anyone's needs! You cant "free the people", you're not some missionary, to tame the wilds of AWCom and bring civilization to it. Also, where are these devices of torture? I don't see anyone being tortured here. If someone doesn't like how they're being treated, they can leave; that is, unless they're a masochist. People normally don't walk willingly into the spinning blades of airplanes, or shoot themselves in the face, so why would they accept this, "torture"? Really... Is you're native language not English like good ole' hotbar, or am I just missing something? -Joe [View Quote] daphneAug 20, 2003, 11:18am
If you are doing or saying things that the diverse cultures of the world
consider to be immoral and doing them where people can view or know of them, then why shouldn't you be "judged", "condemned" or mentally "tortured" by those same people that you are offending??? That's how the world works, ya know... "If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen." [View Quote] xelagAug 20, 2003, 1:12pm
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>If you are doing or saying things that the diverse cultures of the world
>consider to be immoral and doing them where people can view or know of them, >then why shouldn't you be "judged", "condemned" or mentally "tortured" by >those same people that you are offending??? > >That's how the world works, ya know... No it isn't. In a bigot country maybe, but in civilised countries, there are public institutions created for the purpose of seeing that rules are unforces, of judging and, if found guilty, penalising. Private harrassing is forbiden in those countries: it is illegal and sick. Private opinions are of course allowed everywhere, and should be kept private. Alex > >"If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen." > > [View Quote] bowenAug 20, 2003, 1:18pm
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I didn't realize consumers needed to be protected from their own bad
decisions. It was my assumption that if you didn't like a product, you weren't supposed to keep using it, or keep paying for it. Activeworlds was even so nice as to allow a free trial period (tourist or citizenship, so you cannot blame them for _anything_). If anyone is to blame, it's her. But maybe I misunderstood you, are you saying that we're not supposed to tell her she's an idiot that she can't realize that? I guess it would've been wrong to do it the first time and simply tell her, like we did, that she cannot do anything but pay and play. But, this isn't the first time. This is the, what is it, sevenht time now? I'm sorry if I don't care what she thinks anymore (it seems I'm really not the only one). -- --Bowen-- No of SETI units returned: 69 Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours. (Total hours: 1378) www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu elykAug 20, 2003, 2:59pm
daphneAug 20, 2003, 3:27pm
We form our own opinions no matter what a government says... That is our
right... If I want to think you are an idiot and tell you that's my opinion of you, then I will... And have done so... Should I leave all opinions/beliefs up to the government to dictate??? I'd say that is what a lot of Germans did back in the 1940's and we all know what happened because of that... Even in your country doctors are pulling the plug on the sick and elderly no matter what anyone that's involved says just because your government says they can... That would not stop me from calling the government unfeeling creeps... Would it stop you from saying what your opinion is if it went against your government??? If so then you are just a lamb and deserve to be led to the slaughter when it's your turn to fall under unfeeling person's opinions and they have the power to act on them... :o( And, before you bring it up, I don't totally approve of the death penality in the U.S. even though my government says it's legal... [View Quote] ananasAug 20, 2003, 4:07pm
You must feel really helpless to wish something like that back.
Check the google NG search if you love eep so much. The Lady might sound a little strange sometimes (well, often) - but I prefer strange over mean. Mean is usually on purpose. [View Quote] modAug 20, 2003, 4:23pm
The lady just for my own personal amusement when you play pac-man do you
email the creaters saying, pacman should be a democracy, where ghosts and pac-men work together, and it is my right to declare my independance from the game, blah blah blah. Basically, see how stupid that sounds? Its the same thing here, I used to just sit back and chuckle at the silly posts of yours, but one can only chuckle so much O_O -Mod [View Quote] joemanAug 20, 2003, 5:38pm
bowenAug 20, 2003, 6:23pm
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E N Z O asked me to pitch in -$20 Million. You two decide who'll split
the cost. :P -- --Bowen-- No of SETI units returned: 69 Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours. (Total hours: 1378) www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu mrbruceAug 20, 2003, 8:31pm
When the hell are you all going to learn 2 basic things?
No.1) TheLady never reads anything you guys post, she posts and forgets about it. No.2) Nothing you guys say here is gonna make her stop posting. Conclusion: Why do you guys even bother reading her posts in the first place if they annoy you? Curiosity? Looking for something to do to kill boredom? It's strange how you are all drawn to her posts soon after shes posts them. This is a new forum, is AW that boring that you spend all your time chatting here in this forum? xelagAug 20, 2003, 9:00pm
What you are missing is this, Daphne. You have no right to apply your
own moral judgemets as if they were valid for all. When you attack (even behind their backs, and viciously) Goreans or others, you are making a big mistake. You are playing God. I have no affinity with Goreans (as far as I know), but moral standards also apply or should to you. Certainly we form our own moral opinions. What we do not have the right to do is to hassle, torture or whatever justifying it as from our own moral opinions. Sept 11 happend just by the sort of reasoning you hold... A bunch of people believe the american way of life and international intervention is immoral. They may or not be right, but that gives them NO WAY THE RIGHT TO APPLY HASSELING MEASURES. Hasseling has degrees, from bullying to murder. You have hassled many, I am one of them. I also know you do a lot of good work. So just drop the bigotry? Alex [View Quote] >We form our own opinions no matter what a government says... That is our >right... If I want to think you are an idiot and tell you that's my opinion >of you, then I will... And have done so... > >Should I leave all opinions/beliefs up to the government to dictate??? I'd >say that is what a lot of Germans did back in the 1940's and we all know >what happened because of that... > >Even in your country doctors are pulling the plug on the sick and elderly no >matter what anyone that's involved says just because your government says >they can... That would not stop me from calling the government unfeeling >creeps... Would it stop you from saying what your opinion is if it went >against your government??? > >If so then you are just a lamb and deserve to be led to the slaughter when >it's your turn to fall under unfeeling person's opinions and they have the >power to act on them... :o( > >And, before you bring it up, I don't totally approve of the death penality >in the U.S. even though my government says it's legal... > > [View Quote] bowenAug 20, 2003, 9:17pm
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So... you're being a bigot to the bigots? Shouldn't you be hating
yourself, or telling yourself not to talk... or something... -- --Bowen-- No of SETI units returned: 69 Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours. (Total hours: 1378) www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu xelagAug 20, 2003, 10:48pm
>So... you're being a bigot to the bigots? Shouldn't you be hating
>yourself, or telling yourself not to talk... or something... not quite, bowen. you can have your own opinion and ventilate it. but it has to remain your own opinion. in the world we live, a sort of consensus has to be applied. at least, that is the basis of western thought. since many years, the western society has based its organisation in a 3-way power scheme: executives (president etc), lawmaker, judges. each has its own function and is indeendant of the others (the terms in english may be slightly different, my own laguage is spanish). one big advantage above previous schemes is that the law may not be made by an individual. not that this is always fair, but it is fairer than others. linching (a private initiative) was cosidered fair in some of your states a few decades ago... would it be fair in your opinion? condemning people only based on your own system of values, is that fair? Daphne has in her posting here promoted the use of hatred, retaliation and violence against people that she considers immoral, according to her morals (disguised as puplic morals). I defy that, and abhore this sort of bigotry. Alex [View Quote] [View Quote] bowenAug 20, 2003, 10:52pm
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That's your right as an individual, it's also her right to express her
hatred and hope that others agree with her so that action may be taken to stop things that are rediculosly tedious to others. :-\ -- --Bowen-- No of SETI units returned: 69 Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours. (Total hours: 1378) www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu xelagAug 20, 2003, 11:11pm
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>That's your right as an individual, it's also her right to express her >hatred and hope that others agree with her so that action may be taken >to stop things that are rediculosly tedious to others. :-\ Sure, except when one has the choice to respect other people, one has the ability to use that choice. Especially when one is ith a position of power (as Daphne is, ruling on a few worlds). Hatred an bigotry leads nowhere. I was very shocked when a couple of years ago, after gladly agreeing to help Daphne to make a free bot for her event on Halloween, she forbade me to make a bot fot another world which she CONSIDERED immoral (oct31 I think). This was a very difficult decision, but I decided not to help Daphne. This sort of incident has beeing repeating itself, when she waged a 'behind your back' war against GOR and lately against myself. Bigotry? Nice and good people can turn out as biggots... just you wait :( Alex .duo.Aug 20, 2003, 11:21pm
Usually I'm nice to you, but this is just so incredibly stupid that I feel
like I'm gonna explode... anyway, I have no real idea what your talking about or why it fits into an AW newsgroup. How is physical torture inflicted over the internet? And what about mental torture? Can't you just leave the place on the internet your in? "There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their own unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead, influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be." WHAT THE HELL? WHERE? WHAT TORTURE? HOW DO YOU INFLUENCE A GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE FROM ACTIVE WORLDS? Oh crag-monkeys... my heads goona explode... [View Quote] xelagAug 20, 2003, 11:25pm
oh dear, hope you won't really explode :) use your brains if possible!
Alex [View Quote] >Usually I'm nice to you, but this is just so incredibly stupid that I feel >like I'm gonna explode... anyway, I have no real idea what your talking >about or why it fits into an AW newsgroup. How is physical torture inflicted >over the internet? And what about mental torture? Can't you just leave the >place on the internet your in? > >"There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their >own >unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead, >influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in >meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be." > >WHAT THE HELL? WHERE? WHAT TORTURE? HOW DO YOU INFLUENCE A GOOD QUALITY OF >LIFE FROM ACTIVE WORLDS? Oh crag-monkeys... my heads goona explode... [View Quote] the ladyAug 21, 2003, 8:33am
Joeman, AW has always been a self-policing world. There have always been
key people involved in how AW is governed. Nothing is new about my idea of forming a democracy. We already have certain powers in place, we have from the beginning. However, what we don't have is the ability for all citizens to make their wishes count in the form of a vote. AW seems to have (or allow) certain powers to control immoral actions; however, it is cruel, severe, and could be damaging to the citizens. What we need to understand is judging and taking action on undesirable actions without allowing them the opportunity to defend themselves is nothing less than allowing the most severe form of a dictatorship in power. Coupled with no solid foundation/group in place to meet the needs of the citizens, it leaves them traumatized with no place to go. All of us have an obligation to invest in the future of AW. The process has begun. [View Quote] the ladyAug 21, 2003, 8:59am
It is no secret, especially to the leadership of AW (which includes you)
that there is a power in place to get and maintain control of the citizens. However, your post skims that fact and instead seems to center on a peer pressure or bullying type focus. There is a huge difference between being under the power of bullies versus being bullied by people that have no power of you. Shall I name some? Unfair job opportunities Mishandling of private and personal information Favoritism Invasion of Privacy Mishandling or Abuse of funds/royalties/perks and more....... [View Quote] the ladyAug 21, 2003, 9:19am
mod, I play Ms. Pac-Man. "Every man needs a good woman by his side and Ms
Pac-Man is just that woman" As I stated in an earlier post, AW has always had leadership in place in one form or another, independent of the local area in which we live. Has always been a self-policing world. It lacks allowing its' citizens voting power. It lacks a strong organized effort by way of core people in place who's job is meeting the needs of the people, influencing moral behavior, spiritual issues, health issues and many more. http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/mspacman/msmain.html [View Quote] kahAug 21, 2003, 9:23am
"the lady" <thelady263414 at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3f4361c7$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com: > Any power in place that seeks to judge and condemn a people for > immoral actions by way of mental or physical torture should be routed > out, disbanded and left powerless. > > There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with > their own unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. > Instead, influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking > an interest in meeting the needs of the people is what the focus > should be. Can't you please just remove her posting ability? She's filling the newsgroups with mad ramblings! KAH the ladyAug 21, 2003, 9:42am
In response to your questions:
How is physical torture inflicted over the internet? And what about mental torture? Indirectly maybe. However, that statement was made to impress the fact that physical and mental torture go together. In other words, both are abhorrible acts against a people. One can be just as bad as the other. Mental torture, although you can't see it, feel it, touch it, is just as serious as physical torture. One shouldn't be more impressed upon than the other. Can't you just leave the place on the internet your in? Yes. However, AW is a real community, with real people, real friends, real relationships. It isn't within the scope of being humane to ask someone to leave their realm of community to allow mental torture to persist plaguing innocent people. What torture? When immoral acts are committed in AW, an organized effort by a group of people mentally torture them. This not only happens for immoral acts, it happens for other things, too. How do you influence a good quility of life from activeworlds? As I stated in an earlier post, by forming a core group of key people to oversee meeting the needs of the community - spiritually, physical health, mental health, morality, and other important issues concerning the people. [View Quote] daphneAug 21, 2003, 1:05pm
Alex
Would you care to tell me just how I would even be able to "apply my own moral judgements" on anyone in AW in a Real way as opposed to a Virtual way??? Maybe by picking just anyone to help host CitBingo whether I feel they could do a good job, get along with others and keep the world G-Rated like AWI has posted it??? Maybe you want me to do the same in AWTrivia and let a potty-mouthed kid be a host so they can offend any players they choose to??? That's not a "Real way" I might apply my "moral standards" but it IS a way in which I help keep the 2 worlds I run for AWI within their stated rating... I suppose you'll see something wrong with that too... I suppose you'll say that people that I turn down might be so hurt they cry and crying is Real... :o) I have every right to form my own moral standards and if someone offends them then I have the right to say they have... I can't choose for others but I can most certainly choose for myself... If others want to adopt any of my choices, then that is their right because it was there choice to do so... I cannot make others believe as I believe and doing so is not my goal... You line about opinions having to remain your own is a lot of hooey, if you ask me... Do you think people form opinions just by picking them off the "opinion tree" or something??? They learn them by experience; by listening to others and choosing for themeselves which ones they want to keep or not... Then there are others who play God, like you did a few years ago while we were both named as co-organizers of the AVATARS Convention... You kept talking down to me in the e-mail group that had been set up and, even though I asked you to please stop doing it, you couldn't seem to quit... Since I had started the job there and promised Bruce that I would do it, I finished my end of it --- and THEN blasted you in an e-mail... If you could put me down then I guess I could return the favor; and did... Now you organize the AVATARS Convention and IN MY OPINION it's becoming less and less of what it was once was... Heck, Alex... Your attitude that year not only alienated me but it also alienated 2 others of the 3 ppl that helped for years to pull it all together and made it the grand event it used to e --- but is no more!!! Give yourself a pat on the back for that, dear... As for some bot you said I asked you to make for Halloween, I don't even remember anything about it, but if I did as you said then it was because I had probably asked you for the bot script to be an exclusive one... That you wanted to let Oct31 world have it too would have been a problem in that case... You want to talk about hassling someone then why don't we talk about the hassling you gave me over a kid that took up a lot of land in AWTeen??? I knew the kid, you didn't... I knew that he had big plans... He didn't really realize just how much land he had covered!!! You didn't know him from Adam... All you knew was that he had made a mess... Well that's true... He had made a mess and I accepted the job of cleaning it up... Why??? Because I knew the kid had value... You got so ticked off at me defending him that you even wrote to AWI, asking that they shut down his account!!! (Who was playing God then, Alex???) Yes, you helped clean up the mess --- one fairly small part of it it turns out... I worked for days on end cleaning it up and with the kid's blessing, once he realized the enormity of what he had done... Maybe what you don't know is that a year down the road, that same kid was a good part of the AWTeen council and helped that world in quite a few ways... You were wrong yet you felt it was YOUR right to try to get him kicked out and your right to stand there telling me what I should do and when... :o( LOL... "hatred, retaliation and violence" indeed!!! LOL Alex, IRL I would never go to someone's house and hassle them or hassle them when I saw them on the street... In AW, if someone ticks me off then they and others will hear about it... You didn't seem to care that you put me down for one reason or another, so if you have been bad-mouthed by me then that is your payment for it... I sure ain't coming to the Netherlands and knocking on your door or sending you harassing e-mail... That's not my style... My style is to voice my feelings and you have definately earned some negative feelings for me to voice... Maybe you should have thought of "my style" before you felt god-like enough to put me down among other things... :o) [View Quote] |