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My rant... (Community)
My rant... // Communitysw comitNov 5, 2003, 5:58am
Well this was built up in the SW City Forums, edited for the newsgroups. If
you don't care about Alphaworld then there's no need to read this. --- I've brought up Alphaworld topics countless times in my years here in the newsgroups. Only a couple times has AWI commented, in which case it would appear they barely even read what I had to say. Because of SW City, I'm totally bound to Alphaworld, which means we're ultimately under the control of AWI, and I gotta say I really don't like that. Many of you say Alphaworld is dead, move on, but that's simply not the case. Primarily, no one in town wants to abandon ship, and second that there's no where for us to go anyway. So, what's so great about Alphaworld? It's an overlooked potential for us and AWI. In AW, you got your world owners userbase, and your commoner userbase. AWI has been focused on the world owners for many versions and years now. Yes, worlds is where the money's at, but this indirectly hurts the community. As Goober King has stated, AW is shifting from a community to a solo universe. At this rate, we're going to be just a bunch of nice looking worlds with 0 to 3 people in it. That's not a community, and a community is what keeps a program going for a long time. The commoners form most of your community, and they've always been mostly attracted to the big worlds, which are the public worlds basically. The public worlds offer vast space, security and state-of-mind that the world isn't going to be cleared like so many private worlds do. Well, the community is dieing I don't need to tell you that. AWI can only do so much to help the community, and that's basically just working for it a little, in terms of public features, objects, or official events. This is sorta like the fertilizer of community health, and the community can help itself for everything else....so this is where Alphaworld comes in. AWI can't seem to get it through their heads that Alphaworld is about the only place that allows people to start a town of their own, at least one that could reach good size. That's Alphaworld's selling point. It also appears to be *painfully obvious* that AWI is not taking advantage of Alphaworld's popularity. The popularity is already there, why bother trying to start a new one with NewAW? Alphaworld has the rich history, world record setting size and development, and a good sized userbase compared to the rest of AW, and they want to let it rot and die instead of continue to grow? That's not smart business. All worlds have their caretakers to look over world improvements. AWteen's government acts as an organized caretaker system basically, and coupled with it's size it's quite popular. But, public worlds have AWI as their caretaker, and frankly they're pretty lousy at this. And then there's business potential...they musta spent thousands of dollars worth of paid labor building NewAW, where they coulda spent next to nothing fixing up AW. By nothing, I mean that AWI owns countless objects that aren't in use, from other worlds of theres. They could do official events. Bring the community together. There are still plenty of features to unlock. Some features may cause problems, but they all have work arounds and AWI is either blind at seeing them or doesn't want to admit they're there. I can think of many workarounds as I type this. Doing these cheap things is like instant benefits for us and their business when they really needed it; not years down the road putting all your hope in some new flagship world that may or may not work, where the was no community input on if we would even be interested in it (I don't for one), and having blind faith that the community will even be around by the time its done. And if change does cause problems? Are you so scared at fixing it? I'm sure you can do that a lot faster than the time it took to make NewAW. Ontop of neglecting Alphaworld, they lie to us about it. They said 3 times in the newsgroups that there would be a community vote on whether or not we wanted new features in AW. Did we ever get one? No, they just threw in 3d axis without input. There was also suppose to be an object submission program. It was supervised by Factor, and the program died before it built up speed because he left. Seems like that gave AWI an excuse to disband the whole idea. Shortly before the price hikes, there were plans with Mountain Myst and Duskbat and his crew to revamp AW GZ. But after the price hikes, AWI sort of let themselves forget all about this. I've mentioned stuff like this before, and they always make these ridiculous statements that they can never backup about how people "rioted" when features were added before, like when they added the new avatars when only CY existed; And when they gave us some insane 15 minute environment rotating scheme that made 0 sense and was just awful, and of course people complained about it, including me, and they for some reason think we don't want *any* change at all to the environment, which isn't true. They don't even do a winter theme anymore which they did every year. AWI is overly sensitive towards AW conservatives, or what I like to call AW Amish (I know a few, don't take it personal if your reading this). I don't mean to offend anyone but I notice many of these people are older in r/l, and it's basically a fact that as you get older your less likely to like change. I personally believe them protesting change (for the better) is selfish, them holding onto the past and not seeing great things happening in the future. They need to get their priorities straight on what is best for the future of AW. And, the worst part of it all is that since the price hikes, despite AWI claiming they could offer us more with the new revenue, Alphaworld has seen much much less attention than beforehand. That's what really angers me...thanks for reading, and here's hoping for a change in case this gets read by management; and if you are happening to read this Mr. Noll, if you guys aren't going to take care of these public world's futures, let someone else do it. Form an official panel. There *are* functional official groups after all, like PKs, GKs and GET. So it can be done. - SW Comit, representing the people of SW City bowen ten.sardna@newobNov 5, 2003, 12:54pm
Hear, hear.
-- --Bowen-- http://bowen.homelinux.com Give me ideas. bowen ten.sardna@newobNov 5, 2003, 1:50pm
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Hear, hear. You know, to express approval, it's a very common idiom.
-- --Bowen-- http://bowen.homelinux.com Give me ideas. laraNov 5, 2003, 2:09pm
Bravo, SW Comit, Bravo!!
Excellent points throughout your whole rant. It was a constructive rant, I might add. I especially agree with what you said here: "And when they gave us some insane 15 minute environment rotating scheme that made 0 sense and was just awful, and of course people complained about it, including me, and they for some reason think we don't want *any* change at all to the environment, which isn't true." Lara (semi-Amish, me... but hey!, I like "good" changes, too.) ;-P bowen ten.sardna@newobNov 5, 2003, 2:31pm
e n z oNov 5, 2003, 3:53pm
Obviously you CAN'T hold your breath... although it might help you make new
friends :P A rebuttal? First of all while I appreciate the "rant" and am glad to see the interest SW comit has in AW I am unclear on a couple points. Please enlighten me on a couple of these and I will do what I can. a. The appeal of Alphaworld is that people can build towns? b. What is the 15 minute scheme rotation? c. Why when a vote was taken was there only about 30 votes? d. Why do you insist there is some correlation between AW and NewAW? NewAW is an entirely different project (in some ways a prototype) and one from which most developement of 3.4 and 3.5 came from. Many of the ideas started in NewAW were things which have been on the wishlist for YEARS and have now been incorporated in the client! e. Are you sure there was a plan to revamp AWGZ? f. You don't remember that people were upset when the new avatars got added? This was not when "only Cy" existed but was years later. g. What are the features still to be unlocked? It was my understanding that tourists are allowed and 3Axis rotation is also. What would you like? h. You feel that a rate hike was done and a promise was made that AlphaWorld was then going to be improved? Let us know what you think AW should have and then we can rebutt or agree. E [View Quote] sw chrisNov 5, 2003, 4:29pm
Yeah, where's the leadership? Enzo, your employees come up with some great
ideas to spice things up around here. But when the people who spearheaded them left the company, the ideas fizzled out. It sounds to me that the company's right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. And as much of a nice guy as you are, Enzo, if you want us users to see you as a credible leader of this company, then you've got some serious housekeeping to do over there in Newburyport. SW Chris bowen ten.sardna@newobNov 5, 2003, 4:34pm
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Yes, there is plenty of area to build large scale projects. Towns are
included. > b. What is the 15 minute scheme rotation? Something about the sun or day night cycle -- I'm not exactly sure on that one myself. > c. Why when a vote was taken was there only about 30 votes? Not all of us spend every waking hour in AW. ;) > d. Why do you insist there is some correlation between AW and NewAW? NewAW > is an entirely different project (in some ways a prototype) and one from > which most developement of 3.4 and 3.5 came from. Many of the ideas started > in NewAW were things which have been on the wishlist for YEARS and have now > been incorporated in the client! I think he's exspressed concern that AW is not moving forward. All the new features that have been incorporated in the browser are not even being enabled in public build worlds (save AWTeen). > e. Are you sure there was a plan to revamp AWGZ? It might be fun. But as I've said before, the Denizens of AW are horribly attached to antiquity... doing this might shatter their world. > f. You don't remember that people were upset when the new avatars got > added? This was not when "only Cy" existed but was years later. Avatars are avatars, maybe people would've been happy if new avatars were appended to the previous avatars instead of completely replacing them. Which is usually the problem, people don't mind change, as long as they can fall back on to familiar things. > g. What are the features still to be unlocked? It was my understanding that > tourists are allowed and 3Axis rotation is also. What would you like? 3rd axis rotation in the _world_ AW! And all AWI owned worlds for that matter (such as mars). Hell, special commands would be a god send. I doubt you really need to be concerned with "terrorism" anymore Rick, your new price scheme has sufficiently alienated all the 12 year olds who want to cause trouble. But it's also a double edged sword, people are paying more and that means they want more (ie every feature added being added to the world). Terrain (use demeter - that alon would be awesome), special commands (thank god light wasn't one of them), 3rd axis rotation, maybe even water a-la-AWTeen style. > h. You feel that a rate hike was done and a promise was made that AlphaWorld > was then going to be improved? We always hoped that such a thing would happen, we payed more for not only new browser improvements (which would be stupid not to have unless you're really believe that stopping production would still produce money), but also that our congregation centers would also be improved. I'm not saying it's bad... but maybe AW should be backed up to a blank world to be preserved. ClassicAW, where the old timers can have everything the way they want it, meanwhile _everything_ in AW is kept there and all new options are enabled. All that ClassicAW is would be a world that you took a propdump of one day and just left it for antiquity sake. If people really needed it to be "like the good old days." Or, on the same leaf, take the name NewAW and take a propdump and move it there and turn on all features. > Let us know what you think AW should have and then we can rebutt or agree. How's that? :) I hope it's good. -- --Bowen-- http://bowen.homelinux.com Give me ideas. sw chrisNov 5, 2003, 4:44pm
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I'm kind of wondering what you think the appeal is. Obviously one of those
appeals is building. > > b. What is the 15 minute scheme rotation? It was that time several years ago when we first got lighting and fog. World managers were playing around with it so much that people complained. (Though I kind of liked it) It wasn't so much on a schedule as that it was done so often. > > c. Why when a vote was taken was there only about 30 votes? How many people read these newsgroups or visit the website once they have downloaded the browser? It sounds to me like word didn't really get out there. Course I could be wrong. There's no community feel around here anymore, so why would people feel the need to vote? Just like American politics. In anycase, community involvement needs to be stimulated. > > d. Why do you insist there is some correlation between AW and NewAW? NewAW > is an entirely different project (in some ways a prototype) and one from > which most developement of 3.4 and 3.5 came from. Many of the ideas started > in NewAW were things which have been on the wishlist for YEARS and have now > been incorporated in the client! It is because you have done nothing community-oriented in Alphaworld since before development on NewAW began. Comit's point is that it looks like you are neglecting holding community events and bolstering any fan support you have in favor of whatever you have deemed as the purpose of NewAW. Can you not support both? > > e. Are you sure there was a plan to revamp AWGZ? If there wasn't there should be a plan to revamp not just AW GZ, but the surrounding area within twenty coordinates of GZ (sans builds now under control of AWHS). In fact a cool community oriented idea would be to wipe that area clean every few months and hold a building contest of some sort. Prizes don't have to be awarded. Just building near GZ is prize in itself. The original area can be dumped into AWGZ world with dates preserved so the history buffs don't get quite so upset. At the very least appoint a task force to destroy the vandalism and cover the ground. > > f. You don't remember that people were upset when the new avatars got > added? This was not when "only Cy" existed but was years later. Ah, the AW Amish. :) > > g. What are the features still to be unlocked? It was my understanding that > tourists are allowed and 3Axis rotation is also. What would you like? More community-oriented events that the company holds and involvement from you and your employees. Features don't make the world go round, and they're nice, but it would be better to have an involved upper management. I think that would stimulate community involvement from your users. > > h. You feel that a rate hike was done and a promise was made that AlphaWorld > was then going to be improved? AW in general was going to be improved was the feeling I got. > > > Let us know what you think AW should have and then we can rebutt or agree. > > E binarybudNov 5, 2003, 4:49pm
I usually do not do this but this time I will answer inline........see below.....these are of course MY opinions and are spewed as such.
Leo :) [View Quote] Read what he typed a little closer....it's the security....the fact that what you build will remain for years and not be wiped out by a "world rebuild" or the world simply closes. > > b. What is the 15 minute scheme rotation? Not 100% sure on this but i remember AW changine the freak'in weather and skuy every few minutes as some kind of "weather system" Pretty lame actually. > > c. Why when a vote was taken was there only about 30 votes? Main problem with AWI no communication link between staff and customers. > > d. Why do you insist there is some correlation between AW and NewAW? NewAW > is an entirely different project (in some ways a prototype) and one from > which most developement of 3.4 and 3.5 came from. Many of the ideas started > in NewAW were things which have been on the wishlist for YEARS and have now > been incorporated in the client! His point is spend as much time investigating Alpha World as you do with other worlds...you give the impression that Alpha is dieing....see point "a." above > > e. Are you sure there was a plan to revamp AWGZ? I also heard this mentioned more than once. > > f. You don't remember that people were upset when the new avatars got > added? This was not when "only Cy" existed but was years later. Not so much the "adding avatars" that got people upset as much as "improving" of the good old standard.....one that comes to mind is the "butch" avatar.....why make him look all art deco and all? NEW avatars are always welcomed....not changes to ones we love. ie old CY. you did not learn from this? > > g. What are the features still to be unlocked? It was my understanding that > tourists are allowed and 3Axis rotation is also. What would you like? NEW features not a stagnate world and objects. > > h. You feel that a rate hike was done and a promise was made that AlphaWorld > was then going to be improved? After a rate hike and we see no improvement in the "staple world" Alpha World....this is a signal that you intend to let Alpah World die.... the only world that should be here to stay. > > > Let us know what you think AW should have and then we can rebutt or agree. > > E Not sure what the big deal is with all the "dark worlds" lighten things up a bit and make them more welcoming....GOTHIC is not the "in thing to do".. Alpha World Rocks! > > > > > > [View Quote] e n z oNov 5, 2003, 5:02pm
a. rereading.... "security"? I don't get it. DO you think AW is in danger
of being shutdown, wiped, changed? b. not sure either. sounds like a one day experiment with a TOD bot c. the UNIVERSE message was pointed at the vote page for a couple weeks d. I have never given that impression or felt that way e. I have heard it mentioned but have never "planned" on it - and as far as I have seen noone has a concrete plan on how to change it f. New avs you want? Sounds good to me, remember back in the old days though, before broadband, every av, every seq was a huge dl... and AW was the universe GZ Newbies could sit there for 10 minutes and see only triangles we had to replace not append g. NEW FEATURES? like...? h. huh? see d. ..... all the "dark worlds"? E [View Quote] e n z oNov 5, 2003, 5:10pm
a. building
b. ok so it was an experiment that failed c. the UNIVERSE message pointed at the vote page for weeks d. I don't recall the community events held in AW ever, at least not ones AWI set up e. interesting f. any av as long as it's gray ;) g. if the community wants to hold events how can we help? h. the software has improved in my opinion... and not just for WO's E [View Quote] sw chrisNov 5, 2003, 5:11pm
In regards to answer A, Binarybud is saying that it's the fact that he
doesn't think it will ever be shut down or wiped that makes AW have appeal to folks who want to have their builds last a long time. Chris [View Quote] e n z oNov 5, 2003, 5:18pm
a. ok, but not JUST towns right?
b. me either unless it was testing a new feature c. the UNI message pointed at a vote page for weeks d. what features??? e. might be fun f. New avs you want? Sounds good to me, remember back in the old days though, before broadband, every av, every seq was a huge dl... and AW was the universe GZ Newbies could sit there for 10 minutes and see only triangles we had to replace not append g. 3Axis rotation has been in for AW_LONG_TIME! Tourist has been enabled for MONTHS Which special commands? Terrain will never be an option, AW is huge and many builds will just disappear with terrain enabled as objects are often below 0.0A same with water h. I always thought that AW was a platform that allowed users to do whatever they thought best and most enjoyable to them. It was never our intention to create community, that's up to the people that make the community up [View Quote] e n z oNov 5, 2003, 5:20pm
sw comitNov 5, 2003, 5:42pm
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Because if you want to host your own community, you only have a few options.
One being a pretty small one in a private world, one in AWTeen which isn't a public world, or the public worlds like AW. That's just an example there are other things like large scale projects. > b. What is the 15 minute scheme rotation? This was discussed in an earlier NG thread. Every 15 to 30 minutes to environment would change. Stuff like changing the fog (to the point where it's hard to build), and lighting (also making it hard to build). While some of the evironmential changes were nice, a lot were not, and we don't want them that frequent O_o > c. Why when a vote was taken was there only about 30 votes? When was this? Surely someone from the SW City community would have informed us if they saw it. If there really was one, why wasn't the url simply put in the world message? > d. Why do you insist there is some correlation between AW and NewAW? NewAW > is an entirely different project (in some ways a prototype) and one from > which most developement of 3.4 and 3.5 came from. Many of the ideas started > in NewAW were things which have been on the wishlist for YEARS and have now > been incorporated in the client! Chris and Bowen covered that well... > e. Are you sure there was a plan to revamp AWGZ? Very sure. Did you ask Moutian Myst? It was before the price hikes so no suprise if she forgot. Basically Duskbat was working with MM to revamp the GZ, and I just so happened to be talking to Duskbat one night about GZ and he brought this up and invited me to help him out. > f. You don't remember that people were upset when the new avatars got > added? This was not when "only Cy" existed but was years later. Well those old avatars *did* need to be updated, I mean look at them now lol. As I said, a few people can get quite attached, but let me ask you this. How many were there? Compare that to the userbase at the time, and do a percentage check. Hmmm. A few angry people can make a lot of noise. > g. What are the features still to be unlocked? It was my understanding that > tourists are allowed and 3Axis rotation is also. What would you like? This isn't for me to answer, this is what a [well advertised] feature vote is for. Some ideas of what you could include on it: special commands, sky box, seasonal theme changes, cell space, avatars. Those are just features though. Then there are objects. For this, either use more objects that AWI owns or set up an object submission program that Factor was planning. All you need is a few people to check for encroachment issues and quality control, and access to the OP of course. Personally I'd really like to see some simple shape objects. I mean it's 2003 and we don't even have a simple small sphere objects. The only spheres we got are attached to poles and stuff. It would also be nice to lessen the strain required to host events. Like in SW City, we have to struggle with so much advertising to get a half-way desent crowd for events. We need an advertisement organization that has control of the world message. The a new GZ would benefit from easily viewable events center. Sure you can already advertise on those billboards at GZ, but I don't think most people know how to go about doing this and its a slow progress anyway. And there's nothing stoppping AWI from hosting their own events. You guys are sure to draw a big crowd. Things like this helps keep the community going. As for the tourists, you were giving us back half of an old feature, so I don't count that as relevant. > h. You feel that a rate hike was done and a promise was made that AlphaWorld > was then going to be improved? Being as how AW is an ever going chat room it's very hard to dig up this information let alone prove it happened. I do remember talking to Flagg for quite a long time the day of the hikes, and he kinda shut me up when he said how Alphaworld could benefit from the revenues. If it weren't for SW City, I would have left AW because for the cost, there's better stuff out there. This wouldn't be the case if there was something to look forward to. Right now I know Alphaworld is going to be the same day after day and there probably won't be any change to it made for a year, which is exactly what happens...two years now, and only 2 things have happened. The mass object submission and 3d axis. If the world lived up to the browser's name, Active Worlds, and was active, I wouldn't feel the same about it. On the business side of things, my rant does not pertain to getting new users to AW, that's a whole different ballpark. My rant is about *keeping* your current userbase, which is what you need to do before trying to attract new ones. Right now I see AWI doing whatever they can think of to attract new users which is great and all but useless if you can't keep your current users interested for very long. .duo.Nov 5, 2003, 5:51pm
I think that is what Binarybud said and is what he said was a major appeal
factor of Alpha World. -- -.Duo. (342836) .duo.Nov 5, 2003, 5:55pm
> On the business side of things, my rant does not pertain to getting new
> users to AW, that's a whole different ballpark. My rant is about *keeping* > your current userbase, which is what you need to do before trying to attract > new ones. Right now I see AWI doing whatever they can think of to attract > new users which is great and all but useless if you can't keep your current > users interested for very long. Yup, like me and most of my AW friends. sw comitNov 5, 2003, 6:04pm
> c. the UNIVERSE message was pointed at the vote page for a couple weeks
Enzo you keep saying that. You may have requested it, but are you so sure that it happened? Surely someone here can verify if this happened since it was a universe message. binarybudNov 5, 2003, 6:16pm
captain mad mikeNov 5, 2003, 7:00pm
Well I think what we're just trying to say is that you should just *add* to
AW. Adding isn't really the same as changing what's there. If you add in move and rotate, then all of a sudden old buildings aren't going to look like (pardon my French) crap, like what happened back when the animate command changed, along with those new textures. And personally to counter to the "lot" of peope who don't want it changed, there are a "lot" who do. But we're not asking you, E N Z O, to go through and totally wipe AWGZ and rebuild it, or change the textures again, we (at least I, don't know about the rest of the folks) just want some more things like the special commands (move and rotate), a few more objects (that object submission program actually would be a good idea, you know), and maybe AWI can make some building contests in AlphaWorld. You've got enough room for them anyways :) Just some stuff to liven the place up a bit. But about AWGZ (this is going off-topic, my bad :P), I think what you should do is propdump the existing one for prosperity's sake, and then change it around to make it look more asthetically pleasing, and to also show off the true potential of AlphaWorld. If I'm a tourist and I see the current open brick space I'm just going to think of AlphaWorld as a place to chat, but if I see a cool-looking building with all sorts of interactive, moving, rotating things that looks really cool then I'll say "wow! this is neat!" and register. Frankly I don't see waht the big fuss is with changing a GZ, I mean, AWI changed AWGate to make it look better, in my city we change around the town square to make it look better...change is just a part of life. -CMM [View Quote] rossyboy aNov 5, 2003, 7:12pm
I just want to say THANKYOU ENZO for pointing out that terrain is
slightly higer than ground.rwx. Some people have been crying out for terrin in AlphaWorld for a while, but can't they see what problems it caused in AWTeen? Pre-terrain floors overlap with the terrain. Here's my personal list of what I want to see in AW: some new objects and textures - but DON'T overwrite!! like when those objects were added in January... wow that was a MESS. It took many emails from me to get most of the textures back to normal. At least one still isn't right. I mean, what do you guys use to UPLOAD? special commands - now we have 3 axis, which can be used to vandalise, we might as well add special commands in too... I don't want to see a skybox or anything. Leave the pretty skyboxes for non-historic worlds. If GZ was to be revamped I would suggest doing it by adding custom-made z-objects, but make sure the current one is given a world (maybe AWGZ2?) to keep AWHS lovers happy. [View Quote] > a. ok, but not JUST towns right? > > b. me either unless it was testing a new feature > > c. the UNI message pointed at a vote page for weeks > > d. what features??? > > e. might be fun > > f. New avs you want? Sounds good to me, remember back in the old days > though, before broadband, every av, every seq was a huge dl... and AW > was the universe GZ Newbies could sit there for 10 minutes and see > only triangles we had to replace not append > > g. 3Axis rotation has been in for AW_LONG_TIME! Tourist has been > enabled for MONTHS Which special commands? > > Terrain will never be an option, AW is huge and many builds will just > disappear with terrain enabled as objects are often below 0.0A > same with water > > h. I always thought that AW was a platform that allowed users to do > whatever they thought best and most enjoyable to them. It was never > our intention to create community, that's up to the people that make > the community up > > > > [View Quote] builderzNov 5, 2003, 7:18pm
What about a way to "hack" the terrain (for AlphaWorld only) to move it
down so it would be "level" with the current AlphaWorld ground plane/floor? People that want terrain could get it and it wouldn't go through or overlap on current buildings. Builderz http://www.3dhost.net [View Quote] > I just want to say THANKYOU ENZO for pointing out that terrain is > slightly higer than ground.rwx. Some people have been crying out for > terrin in AlphaWorld for a while, but can't they see what problems it > caused in AWTeen? Pre-terrain floors overlap with the terrain. ryanNov 5, 2003, 7:23pm
What I'd like to see for Alpha ...
add some moving clouds .. put a sun corona in there... please, please, please ..put a skybox or sky colors in ..all backdrops mess up for me and it really ruins the asthetics of it all ..and besides which ..I can only stare at those mountains for so long before wanting a change lol there ya go ...those are the features ..well ..the features I want anyway Ryan [View Quote] strike rapierNov 5, 2003, 7:27pm
johnNov 5, 2003, 7:32pm
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