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Jun 27, 2004, 2:58pm

Do any AW radio stations/streaming shows have plans to:

1) Broadcast at a higher bitrate than 24kbps?

2) Use the newer mp3PRO codec?

3) Offer Windows Media Audio streams or Ogg Vorbis streams in the future?

Thanks.

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

Jun 27, 2004, 9:07pm

4) secure the proper ASCAP and BMI web licenses to avoid copyright
issues and provide royalty coverage to the artists being played.

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Jun 27, 2004, 9:22pm

hahaha, wouldn't that be cute? :)

-SWE

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Jun 27, 2004, 9:26pm

To Bodhitah: Many Online radio stations currently do pay these fees. Look it
up yourself
Thank you.
Pyro Goddess


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Jun 28, 2004, 1:32am

I have looked it up Pyro and I don't see that all djs operating a
shoutcast server or private server in AW have paid these fees. Care to
post proof?




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Jun 28, 2004, 3:48am

'Tis true. Real radio stations can just pop a song on the air. They don't
pay royalities or fees (maybe for some special exceptions I guess). It's a
publicity thing, free advertising for the artist.


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Jun 28, 2004, 5:53am

Right.. Im pretty sure it has something to do with the quality of it too -
The stuff played over the air, at least on normal AM/FM isn't CD quality,
and for whatever reason isnt require royalties.. At least I remember being
told that quite a while ago. May have changed with all the piracy stuff
though :-D

Poseidon

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Jun 28, 2004, 12:30pm

No no it's all because when real radio became popular for playing music
people din't care so much about copyrights and stuff like that so no
strict laws were put in place. In America. Other countries do have
strict radio laws.

Once Internet radio came along, the RIAA and others were quick to act.

[View Quote] > Right.. Im pretty sure it has something to do with the quality of it too -
> The stuff played over the air, at least on normal AM/FM isn't CD quality,
> and for whatever reason isnt require royalties.. At least I remember being
> told that quite a while ago. May have changed with all the piracy stuff
> though :-D
>
> Poseidon
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2004, 12:31pm

I think AWRadio is operating out of a country where they don't need to
pay the fees. AWVR claims they have a license for a small audience. I
dunno about any of these new starts.

[View Quote] > I have looked it up Pyro and I don't see that all djs operating a
> shoutcast server or private server in AW have paid these fees. Care to
> post proof?
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 28, 2004, 1:07pm

It's painfully obvious you people know absolutely nothing about the
radio business. Every commercial and non-commercial radio station in the
world pays ASCAP and BMI fees. totaling millions of dollars. The company
I work for (they own 110 radio stations in the U.S.)pay 10s of thousands
of dollars a year. The location of the servers, be they in the U.S. or
elsewhere matter not. We are talking International copyright laws here.

BTW the license mentioned on AWVR's website is a limited FCC license and
has NOTHING to do with the fees mentioned above.

Do not comment on what you know nothing about.

Now my question was and is.... Have the stations centered in Active
Worlds PAID these fees?




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Jun 28, 2004, 1:28pm

Just for clarification here's the links to the webcaster license
applications.


http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/webintro.html

http://www.bmi.com/licensing/webcaster/index.asp


[View Quote] > It's painfully obvious you people know absolutely nothing about the
> radio business. Every commercial and non-commercial radio station in the
> world pays ASCAP and BMI fees. totaling millions of dollars. The company
> I work for (they own 110 radio stations in the U.S.)pay 10s of thousands
> of dollars a year. The location of the servers, be they in the U.S. or
> elsewhere matter not. We are talking International copyright laws here.
>
> BTW the license mentioned on AWVR's website is a limited FCC license and
> has NOTHING to do with the fees mentioned above.
>
> Do not comment on what you know nothing about.
>
> Now my question was and is.... Have the stations centered in Active
> Worlds PAID these fees?
>

Jun 28, 2004, 1:33pm

wow, for some reason i figured it would cost soo much more O_O.
that's like, $500 a year for each radio station, if they pay like $50k a
year, so theAW radio worlds would probably cost more to run overall then the
licensing.

Oh, i really really really really doubt that they pay for the music. and
doubt that they are allowed to play downloaded music, and i really really
doubt that the music they play isn't all off of kazaa :) oh well, might be
wrong, who knows? :)

-SWE


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Jun 28, 2004, 4:14pm

lol, this is a newsgroup... We can all comment on anything. Its up to you
the reader to read it or not. I dont know anything about Radio stations :)
Just presenting what I thought I knew, and if it turns out to be wrong, so
be it.. lol... *puts on the flame retardant gear*

Poseidon

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Jun 28, 2004, 11:26pm

Now that everyone has debated the legal aspects of streaming Internet
audio, can anyone answer my original questions?

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

Jun 28, 2004, 11:44pm

doubt it :)

-SWE

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Jun 29, 2004, 7:03pm

People have short fuses in NGs, it's a universal fact :P
My previous post was based off what a pretty knowledgable person told me in
person. But I guess he was wrong *shrug*


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Jun 30, 2004, 2:44pm

Yep ;) I hope you didn't think I was speaking to you though, lol

Poseidon

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Jul 2, 2004, 2:38am

In response to the original question:

1: A higher bit rate would require a higher bandwidth or loss of listener
capacity. Higher that 24kbps is not likely for a free service station.

2: The new mp3pro codec requires a separate royalty fee for each file
broadcast in the format. Also not likely.

3: WMA and Ogg Vorbis streams are possible, but up to the disretion of the
stations. Perhaps if enough requests are made.


As for the license fees:
Only the physical location of the server is taken into consideration when
determining lisence fees. AWVR operates in an exempt zone. AWR does not.

Jul 2, 2004, 3:12am

Thanks for replying, Pyro. I guess I'll just have to keep listening to
http://www.di.fm then if no AW station can go over the 24kbps bitrate.
:) The AW radio stations might want to add a PayPal donation button on
their sites, BTW.

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

Jul 2, 2004, 6:42am

AW Radios stream crap I say! Crap! Crap! .... k.

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

Jul 5, 2004, 5:44pm

Okay, now there is no excuse to not broadcast above 24kbps... :)

"Cheap Shoutcast Servers!"
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292818

"How you can start an Internet Radio Station today!"
http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13571

And I forget where I read this, but more and more people are switching
to broadband each and everyday so there will be less and less people on
dial-up in the future.

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

Jul 5, 2004, 8:47pm

But not in the near or immediate future, though, considering their price
proved unaffordable to larger group of folks who really need to manage money
during the time of an economic recession. Besides, I think you're looking at
the U.S. demographics instead of international demographics. The broadband
is considerably more expensive elsewhere than in the U.S. largely due to
strong American dollars (not sure why its strong or something like that).
The non-American folks has and will remain a significant demographic group
in Active Worlds and elsewhere on the internet, no matter how much
significance you think it has. Anyway, that's my observation as an American
in reading almost thousands of conversation in newsgroups. :)

--
Legion

"I think, therefore I am" - Rene Descartes,
17th-century French philosopher, Earth
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Jul 6, 2004, 12:02am

apparently, like 500,000 every week? so, that's like 7% of the internet a
year, so still isn't that much :)

-SWE

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Jul 6, 2004, 4:35am

I didn't say broadband adaption would happen overnight, did I? I also
never said everyone could afford it or even if it was available in their
area or not. Why did you assume I was referring to mainly Americans and
not other Internet users? I remember years ago when there used to be
massive amounts of users from Finland flooding worlds left and right in
AW. AW has a global user base.

However, a majority of streaming radio stations at least broadcast in
32kbps (people on 56k dial-up can still listen to them) *or* they
provide a dial-up stream *and* a broadband stream to suit everyone's
tastes. A majority also have some amount of funding or at least a PayPal
donation button to help cover costs.

I have to disagree with you when you say broadband is more expensive
elsewhere than in the U.S. In some countries, yes. In others, no. Let's
not forget that broadband, in my opinion, is anything faster than a 56k
modem. So it could be ISDN, DSL, cable, satellite, wireless, etc. Take
this quote from a news article about broadband in South Korea for example:

"The Chos' high-speed digital line--100 times faster than the typical
dial-up connection in the United States--is their zippy gateway to home
entertainment, education and shopping, all for $32 a month. And despite
the relatively recent arrival of such connections, the Chos, like many
Koreans, are already as addicted to their broadband hookup as most
Americans are to their television sets."
http://news.com.com/2100-1034_3-999695.html

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

[View Quote] > But not in the near or immediate future, though, considering their price
> proved unaffordable to larger group of folks who really need to manage money
> during the time of an economic recession. Besides, I think you're looking at
> the U.S. demographics instead of international demographics. The broadband
> is considerably more expensive elsewhere than in the U.S. largely due to
> strong American dollars (not sure why its strong or something like that).
> The non-American folks has and will remain a significant demographic group
> in Active Worlds and elsewhere on the internet, no matter how much
> significance you think it has. Anyway, that's my observation as an American
> in reading almost thousands of conversation in newsgroups. :)

Jul 6, 2004, 4:56am

"DSL Forum Releases Stats"
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?site=supercomm&doc_id=55029

Where did you get your 500,000 and 7% statistics from?

I didn't say it will happen very soon, SWE. Some people are just
experiencing the Internet for the first time while others are making the
most of it and switching to higher speeds.

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

[View Quote] > apparently, like 500,000 every week? so, that's like 7% of the internet a
> year, so still isn't that much :)
>
> -SWE

Jul 6, 2004, 3:23pm

O_O some tv show? i remember them saying something along those lines >_< DO
NOT QUESTION TV! >_<

-SWE

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Jul 6, 2004, 3:30pm

oh no wait >_< that was a show on legally downloaded music >_< 500.000 songs
are downloaded per week off of itunes or all together or something, in the
US, while in the uk, a total of 500,000 songs are downloaded per year >_<
and it was something like 10% of internet users buy music online or
something... oh well :) atleast it's on the music topic!

-SWE

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Jul 7, 2004, 3:19pm

Here is a great site about the benefits of using the mp3PRO codec vs.
the older MP3 standard.

http://www.mp3pro.com/mp3pro/mp3pro_info.asp

Builderz
http://www.3DHost.net

Jul 7, 2004, 9:25pm

royalties: (Electronic Music Distribution / Broadcasting / Streaming :
http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/index.html )
"mp3PRO· 3.0 % of related revenue"
emm, so for non-commercial radios, it's free?

-SWE

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Jul 7, 2004, 9:29pm

sent too early >_< also wanted to add this:

"Note: No license is needed for private, non-commercial activities (e.g.,
home-entertainment, receiving broadcasts and creating a personal music
library), not generating revenue or other consideration of any kind or for
entities with an annual gross revenue less than US$ 100 000.00."

since i doubt any of the aw radio stations which are trying to generate
revenues, would be making more then $100,000 a year, guess they don't
actually have to pay?


-SWE

[View Quote]

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