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ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7 // Work in Progress
Post by Shike // May 26, 2006, 5:54am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Hope I'm not upsetting someone by posting this :confused:
The TriBeast model is done in ZBrush2, which is what I fear might upset people:o
However, it might still be considered a test of how many polygons the Player can handle ;)
It's imported into trueSpace7 with the Luuv OBJ plugin and visualized with the Player.
( Note: shown below are three separately exported meshes, I don't think that either ZBrush or Luuv supports SubDiv levels :confused: )
Here is the First Subdivision level (456 faces)
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Third Subdivision level (7296 faces)
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Sixth (and final) Subdivision level (467000 faces) Still very smooth in the Player, the Modeler is struggling though ( Will be nice when the Modeler isn't needed anymore :D )
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I think that about 500k faces is enough even if it's easy enough to increase it to millions in Zb. However, since I want to create HighRes textures and perhaps do some HDRI renders, the 2Gb memory limit of 32bit WinXP would cause problems :rolleyes:
I really hope that tS-VRay will get support for Displacement mapping since I wouldn't have to use the highdensity mesh....of course, it would also be nice if Lightworks had support for it.
Comment's or Crit's anyone?
Before you ask, nope I will not animate it.
Reason 1: I only make stills. :rolleyes:
Reason 2: I think it would look dorky, stumbling around on only three legs.. it's kinda like an evolutionary dead-end ;)
Reason 3: The mesh density is to high for animation, maybe if displacement mapping was supported...ah, who am I kidding, Reason 1 still apply. :D |
Post by parva // May 26, 2006, 7:18am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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try the polygon reduction & normal mapper tool in Player.
500k to calculate down will take some time but should be worth. The adaptive uv mapper is great. I have much better results as with the Adaptive UV function from Zbrush (a pity that we can't extract the final mesh with the UV settings and bitmap in tS7 yet).
...great Beast :) |
Post by Shike // May 26, 2006, 7:49am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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try the polygon reduction & normal mapper tool in Player.
...great Beast :)
Thanks :)
Great tip ! I'd forgotten about normal mapping. Tried it when tS7 was released, but only in the player, not for rendering in Lightworks or Vray.
It should be possible to extract the normal map difference between SSlevel 3 or 4 and the heavy 6... that would really improve rendertimes.:jumpy: |
Post by parva // May 26, 2006, 8:09am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Don't know if you have understand what I meant :)
this button -> http://www.parva-project.de/stuff/ts/but1.jpg
create a low poly mesh plus a very accurate normal map directly from your high res model.
Best use in world space (tangent unchecked)
;) |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2006, 8:22am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I really don't think they have issues with other Applications being used in conjuction with Truespace. It's just another tool.
It's not the sphere I had asked for in another thread...Damn I'm glad you don't listen to me! I am so glad to see these results in TS. Your model looks awesome. |
Post by brianalldridge // May 26, 2006, 9:06am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Nice dino\monster\beast! I don't see how a walk cycle would be much of a problem though, it would have to bound like a rabbbit, but it's possible. Nice work! |
Post by Shike // May 26, 2006, 9:53am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Don't know if you have understand what I meant :)
Yup, that's the one I just pressed...oh, it has settings...I think I should read the manual and experiment with a slightly simpler model first :D
It's not the sphere I had asked for in another thread.... Your model looks awesome.
Thanks ! :D
Couldn't find your sphere-request-thread though... :confused:
it would have to bound like a rabbbit, but it's possible. Nice work!.
He,he, didn't think about that ! :D
My idea was a big (like a rhino) herbivorous slowmoving creature... but a rhino is pretty fast...would be fun watching it hop around, of course with a lot of camera-shake and dust flying around. Not going to give it rabbit ears though ;) |
Post by Shike // May 26, 2006, 9:59am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Added some details and gave it a nose-job ;)
This time without the floor in the player, but still with glow...I love the player glow-effect !
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This nostril is similar to the one I had on my early render on the webpage... the other one didn't look good from the side...or at all. :rolleyes: |
Post by Rareth // May 26, 2006, 10:23am
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Rareth
Total Posts: 149
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Wow thats impressive, can't wait to see it with textures |
Post by MadMouse // May 26, 2006, 11:46am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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WOW!!! Excellent work Lars. I love the detail you managed to get into the skin. This will look incredible when you've added the textures. Looking forward to more.
Steve |
Post by Shike // May 27, 2006, 2:10am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Wow thats impressive, can't wait to see it with textures
WOW!!! Excellent work Lars. I love the detail you managed to get into the skin. This will look incredible when you've added the textures. Looking forward to more.
Thanks guys :o
I've just started the texturing process...which means I'm leaving my comfort zone.
Sculpting and Modelling: Love it ! :D
Texturing and Painting: Eh...isn't greyscale enough? :o
I'll have to look at real animals for inspiration...research, another of my not-favourite subjects ;)
Until I have a texture to show, this is how the little critter looks like when he's leaving you (for his paintjob;) ) :
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Post by Shike // May 27, 2006, 5:26am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Ok, first render with a rough texture. Now with HDRI and VRay.
(only 20 samples, hence the splotches)
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Not 100% sure of what colorscheme to choose...or exactly what I'm doing :D
Any suggestions?
(leaving for a while...it's time to return to SIN and some really annoying MiniGun soldiers that keep trashing me ;) ) |
Post by brianalldridge // May 27, 2006, 8:34am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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I would suggest some brown and green on the lowerportions, and green with faint yellow splotches for the uppper portions, since it's an herbavore it stay in grener areas, hence the main green tint, the lower portion would have browns in it to match the ground, and the upper portion would just look like a flowering bush from a distance, btw how tall is it? I'm making all these assumptions on it being three-four feet tall.
HTH |
Post by MadMouse // May 27, 2006, 9:35am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Looking good....
I see the 'beak' of this beastie with a hard surface similar to the horn on a rhino. The rest of the skin should be more like elephant skin, worn, rough and wrinkled. Its to easy to be sucked into bright colours for alien wild life. Evolution would select the most useful colour scheme not the most attractive.
HTH
Steve. |
Post by chrono // May 27, 2006, 12:16pm
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chrono
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Ok really stupid question, that's probably already been asked but I didn't see it. Why import from ZB2 when TS7 has displacement painting built-in?? |
Post by GraySho // May 27, 2006, 7:33pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Ok really stupid question, that's probably already been asked but I didn't see it. Why import from ZB2 when TS7 has displacement painting built-in??
Could you enlight me and show me the displacement brush? And if there is any, I don't think it can compete with the toolset of ZBrush.
Anyway, nice beast Shike, quite original. Colors looking good. |
Post by Shike // May 28, 2006, 4:10am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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I would suggest some brown and green .... btw how tall is it? I'm making all these assumptions on it being three-four feet tall.
HTH
Camo-coloring...good idea :) . I only made it green to mark that it ate veggies....have to admit that I didn't do the research I said I would.
Size, I was thinking rhino,hippo something...not sure how many feet they are.
(not sure what they are in the metric system either ;) )
I see the 'beak' of this beastie with a hard surface similar to the horn on a rhino. The rest of the skin should be more like elephant skin, worn, rough and wrinkled. Its to easy to be sucked into bright colours for alien wild life. Evolution would select the most useful colour scheme not the most attractive.
You are right about that.....elephants, rhinos, hippos...grey wrinkly rough skin.
I think a combination of your ideas would be good. Rough skin, and very faint colors... :)
Anyway, nice beast Shike, quite original. Colors looking good.
Thanks !
Ok really stupid question, that's probably already been asked but I didn't see it. Why import from ZB2 when TS7 has displacement painting built-in??
It's a very valid question. I assume you mean displacement painting in 3DPaint? ( I havn't tried everything in ts7 yet.)
I think it's only used for bump-mapping, while in ZBrush I use my pressure sensitive wacom-tablet to heighten or lowering the mesh points.
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In this ZBrush screenshot of the tribeast eye I've increased the number of polygons to 1.8 million and "painted" real physical ridges.
(only reason it's possible to work with that amount of polygons is the ability to hide what you don't need to see)
I think this type of 3D sculpting with a wacom pen would be possible with ts7 subdivision surfaces, if it's not already there?
Both tS and Zb work in a similar way, like the ability to go up and down between subdiv levels and changes on lower levels update the higher levels.
It would be nice to do everything in tS, because ZBrush has some limitations (like working on more than ONE object) that complicates things, see below.
Note about ZBrush: People use it as a sculpting and 3Dpaint complement for all major rendering programs.
( It can never replace them since it doesn't have scenes, animations, cameras or any advanced rendering we're used to from tS)
You can only work on ONE real 3D object which strangely enough is called a "tool", the rest becomes a part of the 2.5D "canvas".
So the ZB Image below has a couple of triBeasts, I can change the lighting and the shadows update... but I can't move any of them, because they are now 2D....with Zdepth. I had to go through a lot of tutorials to understand how this worked :confused:
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Post by Délé // May 28, 2006, 11:48pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Nice beast Lars! We need more beasts roaming around in the TS backyard. It kind of makes me want to pull one out I started a while back and finish it. :)
Your right Lars, as far as displacement painting, TS7 does not have this ability yet. There is the soft selection which you can customize with an image, but it's not quite the same as displacement "painting".
In this ZBrush screenshot of the tribeast eye I've increased the number of polygons to 1.8 million and "painted" real physical ridges.
(only reason it's possible to work with that amount of polygons is the ability to hide what you don't need to see)
The player actually does have a lot of muscle. I don't know about 1.8 million but it can lift a lot of weight if the bridge is off. Also, you can use the generate normal map button to reduce the geometry and have the normal map keep the illusion of all of the detail if any models were a bit too heavy. |
Post by Shike // May 29, 2006, 12:37am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Nice beast Lars! We need more beasts roaming around in the TS backyard. It kind of makes me want to pull one out I started a while back and finish it. :).
Thanks ! I agree that beasts are rare here...wonder why? :confused:
The best reason to create imaginary beasts are that nobody can say "it doesn't look like that" ;)
My first tests of ZB-tS transfer was with 1-2 million polygons, but decided set the max to 500k. Save/Load times, bridge transfers, memory demands and rendertimes are then on a comfortable level. ( I'm a very impatient guy...don't like to wait ;) )
And I will test normal maps. Both in tS and ZB.
If I succeed with the normal-maps and get it down enough in size I might post the beast-cob here in the forum for others to test....if there is any interest of course.:rolleyes:
( the file is currently 15Mb when zipped, and that is way too much! The limit here is 2Mb if I'm not mistaken?) |
Post by Alien // May 29, 2006, 4:42am
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Alien
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( the file is currently 15Mb when zipped, and that is way too much! The limit here is 2Mb if I'm not mistaken?)
AFAIK, yes, but you could always host it elsewhere & link to it. |
Post by Gavelsnodd // May 30, 2006, 6:28am
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Gavelsnodd
Total Posts: 18
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Realy nice beast. You allways draw great beasts. ;)
I have a problem locateing the eyes when i look at it. I seem to "think" that the nostrils are the eyes, maybe it sounds strange but i imagine that my brain tells me where the eyes usually are. I think you should make the eye a bit "obvious" so people like me dosn't get confused, although I like dark eyes. :D |
Post by Shike // May 30, 2006, 7:58am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Realy nice beast. You allways draw great beasts. ;)
I have a problem locateing the eyes when i look at it. I seem to "think" that the nostrils are the eyes..
Thanks! (good to see you online...now we are at least two Swedes ;) )
Agree about the nostrils.... when reading this I was reminded about why I made the "nose-flaps" nostrils seen on the first page...because I also got distracted from the eyes. ;)
Might make the nostrils smaller or more closed. :rolleyes: |
Post by Gavelsnodd // May 30, 2006, 10:32am
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Gavelsnodd
Total Posts: 18
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Might make the nostrils smaller or more closed. :rolleyes:
I don't think thats necessery. If the texture of the eyes reveal it's an eye then I think there will be no doubt.
there might not be a problem at all when the eyes have a shiny "secretion"-like texture on it.:)
Gam... I mean Render on. :D |
Post by Methusela // May 30, 2006, 10:49am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I never could get ZBrush to install. That stupid 'Install Anywhere' program stops working at the pre-installation screen. Anyone here have an idea why that is? |
Post by Shike // May 31, 2006, 8:05am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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I don't think thats necessery. If the texture of the eyes reveal it's an eye then I think there will be no doubt.
Gam... I mean Render on. :D
My plan is...not sure it will work though..to remove the polygons of the eye, and replace that with a glass-sphere, and have something inside that reflects light, like on cats....I think it will work :rolleyes:
You where right on the first part: Game On ! "Unfortunately" both HalfLife2Episode1 and Hitman arrived in the mailbox today...but I'll try to texture and render a little during the weekend.
I never could get ZBrush to install. That stupid 'Install Anywhere' program stops working at the pre-installation screen. Anyone here have an idea why that is?
I just remembered I had the same problem, the installer requires Java, here is something from the FAQ :
IMPORTANT NOTE: The installer requires Java in order to run. If it fails to run, please go to www.java.com and follow the instructions there to install that on your machine. After you have done this, the installer should run fine.
If that doesn't help (but it reeeeally should work):
When I install software I usually disconnect my computer from the internet for safetyreasons and then turn of the VirusScanner and Firewall, since they have disrupted a lot of installs for me over the years.:confused:
Hope it helps, would be nice to see more ZBrush models rendered in trueSpace ! :) |
Post by Methusela // May 31, 2006, 4:37pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Hey, thanks Lars!
Forgot to mention last post: Great beast! One of the best models I've ever seen in TS! Can't wait to see the final texture! |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 1, 2006, 2:07am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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OK first let me say what a great beast and excellent peice of modelling - great work and well done.
Second, as far as colouring I was wondering about big black and white blobs, like a hereford cow.
Third - and this is the thing that keeps sticking in my mind - with only one leg at the back how does this critter do No. 2's without pooing in his own shoe, so to speak?. Apologies for the indelicacy of my question but enquiring minds want to know! |
Post by Rareth // Jun 1, 2006, 3:36am
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Rareth
Total Posts: 149
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OK first let me say what a great beast and excellent peice of modelling - great work and well done.
Second, as far as colouring I was wondering about big black and white blobs, like a hereford cow.
Third - and this is the thing that keeps sticking in my mind - with only one leg at the back how does this critter do No. 2's without pooing in his own shoe, so to speak?. Apologies for the indelicacy of my question but enquiring minds want to know!
hmm well the hind leg could have a "hip" joint configured so it can lean backwards (back leg tucked up underneath it, front legs angling back.. watch a dog, but picture the back legs coming more forward with most of the weight balanced on the front legs. |
Post by Shike // Jun 1, 2006, 7:21am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Hey, thanks Lars!
Forgot to mention last post: Great beast! One of the best models I've ever seen in TS! Can't wait to see the final texture!
Thanks ! Oh btw, the texture below is not final...or is it ? ;)
OK first let me say what a great beast and excellent peice of modelling - great work and well done.
Thanks ! :)
Second, as far as colouring I was wondering about big black and white blobs, like a hereford cow.
Hm, cow colour you say...like this (couldn't resist testing it) ?:
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But if it looks like a cow, people will compare it with one...and then I have to simulate short fur (maybe by scanning a real cow) ;)
But with faint colors and rough skin it might work... so the idea is noted :)
Third - and this is the thing that keeps sticking in my mind - with only one leg at the back how does this critter do No. 2's without pooing in his own shoe, so to speak?. Apologies for the indelicacy of my question but enquiring minds want to know!
Aaah, finally someone had the guts to say it ;)
I was actully going to comment on that with the rear-view picture of him...but chickened out. :o
The truth behind the TriBeast anatomy:
It was my first experiment in ZBrush, and at first I only planned to create the head and shoulders for a closeup picture.
Of course, that plan didn't last long, and I decided to do the rest, and just started to stretch and add edgeloops until I got a rear leg....my skills back then wasn't enough to actually create enough polygons for two hind legs.
So, as I've stated earlier, the Tri-Beast is an evolutionary dead-end :D
hmm well the hind leg could have a "hip" joint configured so it can lean backwards
You might be onto something there, but sorry, I will not do a character rigging and animation to try it ;) |
Post by Rareth // Jun 1, 2006, 8:16am
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Rareth
Total Posts: 149
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well I wasn't suggesting you animate it to find out, just pointing out to Wizard how it might go about doing its business.
hmm cow colors look wrong on it.. how about having it a reddish brown, that way the snout can blend into it and the underbelly could be a lighter color, still going with the wrinked leathery skin look.. it might not have evolved fur. |
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