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ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7 // Work in Progress
Post by Steinie // Jul 22, 2006, 1:29am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Revolution? No, that's taken too... hmmmmm... how about Bob?
I don't know what OTHER Alien race you refere? :D That was good!
I agree about not putting a city in the background for the same reasons. You could even create a herd of animals down below. (That could take awhile;) ) |
Post by brianalldridge // Jul 22, 2006, 5:15am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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If, on the other hand, you have a destroyed city, similar to that which you see in Final Fantasy: Advent Children, that could work. It would make it seem as though he is only one of a few survivors... and people will make up a story about him. The 'planet' in the background is a cool idea... would that mean that this is based on a moon? It is all looking good!
andy
Speaking of final fantasy, what if he were to put a big ship in between the tribeast and the planet? I have a feeling it would be a whole seperat project though:p
http://www.gamespot.com/ds/rpg/finalfantasyiii/media.html |
Post by parva // Jul 22, 2006, 9:00am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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fantastic work so far...
It reminds me a bit on the Game "Shadow of the Beast" Trilogie from Psygnosis,
damn I loved these games.
The graphic and music was marvelous at this time on Amiga and now, oh dear :D |
Post by Mike // Jul 23, 2006, 3:57am
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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That brought back memories!:) I loved that too.
fantastic work so far...
It reminds me a bit on the Game "Shadow of the Beast" Trilogie from Psygnosis,
damn I loved these games.
The graphic and music was marvelous at this time on Amiga and now, oh dear :D |
Post by Shike // Jul 23, 2006, 11:05am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Made som finetuning to the concept....now I'll have to start creating geometry...pff...that'll take awhile :p
1939 |
Post by Methusela // Jul 23, 2006, 11:56am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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It needs birds! Or Pterodactyls or something cool.
Love it so far. Great conceptualization. Can't wat to see the geometrized one! |
Post by Zeipher // Jul 23, 2006, 12:04pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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It needs birds! Or Pterodactyls or something cool.
Love it so far. Great conceptualization. Can't wat to see the geometrized one!
Birds at the top left of the moon, a whole flock of them! This looks pretty cool how it is at the moment! Did you hand draw all this? I am confused...
Cool eye by the way ;) (Little too bright though :p )
andy |
Post by splinters // Jul 23, 2006, 12:36pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Excellent work, I am really enjoying seeing this one develop...and now I can watch it a bit more closely considering my own little 'project' is finished now...;) |
Post by Délé // Jul 23, 2006, 1:36pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Looking great Shike! I can't wait to see that landscape in 3d. :) |
Post by Rareth // Jul 24, 2006, 4:27am
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Rareth
Total Posts: 149
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Wow its looking better and better.. awesome! |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 24, 2006, 8:14am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Great concept drawing Lars.
Now stop mucking about and get on with the render :D :D |
Post by Shike // Jul 25, 2006, 11:52am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Thanks y'all ! :D
Hm, birds...yeah, I might add that. Good tip ! :D
And yes, it was handdrawn in Photoshop (the clouds where a photo) and in the end the background will be a combination of 3D renders, photos and handdrawn.
1951
Here is a testrender of the ground (ZB2 sculpted)..so far 50000 polys. Plan to add pebbles and grass with ObjPaint in ts7 later on.
(the cube to the right will be one of the trees.) |
Post by Shike // Jul 25, 2006, 11:58am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Great concept drawing Lars.
Now stop mucking about and get on with the render :D :D
I feeeeeel the pressure :D
By the way...where is the Warehouse Mech? Isn't it ready yet? :banana: |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 26, 2006, 8:38am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I feeeeeel the pressure :D
By the way...where is the Warehouse Mech? Isn't it ready yet? :banana:
:confused: Surely you've seen the two render I've posted already :confused:
Or did you mean a TS7 render. If so I'm working on something else at the moment but that's nearly ready to post and when its finished I'll be back on the Mech. Unfortunately there's a bug in TS that looks like it might stop me :( :( Watch this space. (well not this space, this is your space or is it truespace:D :D )
ATB
Steve |
Post by Shike // Jul 26, 2006, 7:46pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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:confused: Surely you've seen the two render I've posted already :confused:
Yup, I've seen the Mini and Construction ones (and loved them) but were looking foward to see how you would do the Steve-photo-warehouse-and-mech composite :D
Especially since my own idea...to mix the tribeast with a photo died pretty quick.
I have a feeling that it would have been best to first get the photos of the environment...then create textures...or travel around the world to find the perfect and most alien-looking place. ;)
BTW Now I'm in a similar situation as you were.... the amount of geometry and textures is becoming a "small" problem ;)
Though it feels like ts7 instead of crashing when the 2Gb memory limit is reached instead just renders black...
(have to say that I prefer that to the "fatal error" crash !)
oh well, after making the textures a bit smaller it worked, and when I do the final renders I should be able to do the same as you...render parts and composite.
Hm, when Microsoft and Intel decided to go for 32bit systems (since more would never be needed :p ) they were obviously wrong...wonder how long it will take until the new 64bit system feels outdated..3-5 years perhaps? :rolleyes:
They should go for 128-256bits directly and then release some crazy console to bring up the circulation and lower the prizes. ;)
If they did, I bet that Nvidia and ATI would simultaneously release 512-1024 bit GPU's :banana: |
Post by Shike // Jul 26, 2006, 8:04pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Hrmm, the ground is now up to 200k polys and the poly total of the scene is above 600k polys, which will increase even further when I add subdivision to the trees and create pebbles and grass...pfew :rolleyes:
1953 |
Post by TomG // Jul 27, 2006, 3:58am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Of course the concept is that higher bit processors are not the way of the future - instead it is "more of" them that counts. Neurons are pretty much just one bit, fire / don't fire, yet we do pretty good with those ;)
So 128 or 256 bit processors may not happen - instead we may see the route the Cell processor is going being victorious, where 500 8-bits outstrip what a 128 bit can do or something.
Not to hijack the thread though :) Back to the picture, this is looking great, looking forward to seeing it subdivided. Can't help but wonder if displacement mapping for the ground might have removed the need for Z-Brush, we'll have to wait and find out, looks like the sort of task it will be well suited for though.
Those trees should look good subdivided!
Hmm, which one renders black, is it Lightworks or V-Ray? Sounds like a memory issue (rather than the processor "bittage" ;) ), could be the scene is exceeding memory size on render. You could always mail some details along to me and I can foward it to developers, I think it is a known issue, but I'll check if you like.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Shike // Jul 27, 2006, 1:21pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Of course the concept is that higher bit processors are not the way of the future - instead it is "more of" them that counts. Neurons are .......Hmm, which one renders black, is it Lightworks or V-Ray? Sounds like a memory issue (rather than the processor "bittage" ;) ), could be the scene is exceeding memory size on render. You could always mail some details along to me and I can foward it to developers, I think it is a known issue, but I'll check if you like.Thanks!
Thanks, and well, displacementmapping would probably help since I in ZBrush can generate dispmap from the difference between high-low poly.:)
They 32-bit rant I had was mainly directed at memoryaddressing since it prohibits truespace (and everything else) from using more than 2 Gb of memory...which is most likely what I'm running into now.
But as long as I know the workarounds I don't mind.:rolleyes:
(making textures smaller and/or render in parts and composite)
Agree about multiprocessors...it's probably the future but I would have preferred faster CPU's...since I doubt that all types of software can be programmed to use multiple CPU's in an efficient manner. :confused:
Of course, from a strict trueSpace point of view it would be good since renderengines should be pretty easy to convert....or maybe they support it already? ;) |
Post by Shike // Jul 27, 2006, 1:48pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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To be clear:
I'm posting this info to inform others and I don't consider
this to be a problem that Caligari can or should solve so I see no need to report this to the developers.
The problem is 32bit systems, I'll wait for Vista and true 64 bit memory addressing ;)
Just did a quick test of the memory scene.
When just this scene (the 600k-poly one) is loaded the truespace7 process uses: 233Mb
(Using Lightworks with bridge turned off for performance, HDRI, raytraced shadows, 100samples)
Modified scene (smaller textures and HDRI image):
When starting the render (just fullscreen)
it goes up to 1.2Gb of memory. No problems occur. :D
From experience...it's somewhere between 1.7-1.9Gb the 32bit problems start. :cool:
This scene had
2048x2048 texture map for ground
512x512 texture+normal map for sword
2048x2048 texture for Rider
2048x2048 texture+normal for TriBeast
512x512 texture+bump+specular for Tribeast&Rider eyes.
800x400 HDRI
The scene that rendered black had
3500x3500 texture map for ground
1024x1024 texture+normal map for sword
3500x3500 texture for Rider
3500x3500 texture+normal for TriBeast
1024x1024 texture+bump+specular for Tribeast&Rider eyes.
800x400 HDRI
I'm not going to test thoose texturesizes again but I'm 99% sure they caused the problem. And hey...even if I make a printsize render..the textures doesn't need to be that big ;)
(The scene rendered without any textures, just the default material, only requires 728Mb
so the amount of polygons isn't the problem) |
Post by TomG // Jul 27, 2006, 3:41pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Interesting info, thanks for sharing! Yes 2Gb is a limit to memory, and yes it is easy to start running into that in a 3D app.
I'd be interested to know how Vista impacts it too.
Multiple processors are great for tS, it will exploit all the cores as far as I understand it. It already works on the same conceptual principles of dividiing up work and processing as a multi-processor system. But I don't know enough technically to say anything intelligent about it :)
I do know that makes multi-core more exciting for tS than just faster processors.
Both V-Ray and Lightworks make use of dual processors (or dual core processors). I am not sure if they automatically scale beyond that or not.
Anyway, not to stray too far from the topic of your image, but those facts and figures were interesting to read I admit :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 27, 2006, 8:49pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Yup, I've seen the Mini and Construction ones (and loved them) but were looking foward to see how you would do the Steve-photo-warehouse-and-mech composite Ah now theres the problem. As I hinted in the last post I've found a problem with using certain shaders in layered textures in TS7 which causes the thing to crash. And of course they are the certain shaders that I have used on the Mech so i'll have to find a work around.
I will post this as a bug once I've done some more research on it.
Anyway back to your Beasty. Looking great but I do sympathise with your texture problems. The poly count is getting a bit hairy now. But if you will insist on modeling in Zbrush....:D :D
Keep up the great work mate.
Steve |
Post by Shike // Jul 29, 2006, 2:52pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Anyway back to your Beasty. Looking great but I do sympathise with your texture problems. The poly count is getting a bit hairy now. But if you will insist on modeling in Zbrush....:D :D
Keep up the great work mate.
Thanks ! :D
So far I havn't used any layered materials...I prefer the "mapped phong" shader and might use it for specularity on the Rider and Beast (if memory permits ;) )
Hm...the polycount isn't that bad...if I remember correctly your mech had a lot more ? ;)
But to close the gap between our projects, the tree got up to 35000poly after a visit in ZB2 :D
Polygon tree created in ts7:
1962
Subdivision in ts7:
1963
Sculpted in ZB2:
1960
Below I use a standard Simbiont texture to test that it works ok in ts7.
1961
Of course I plan to make my own Darktree material....I kinda want moss to be on all topside surfaces...
Well, procedural shaders are murder on render-times, but they save memory !
I think I might use it on the ground also....then I might rise the texture-size on the tribeast again. |
Post by splinters // Jul 29, 2006, 10:41pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I love that tree...very Tim Burton...:D |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 30, 2006, 4:13am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I love that tree...very Tim Burton... Tim Burton... Yes thats its, I was trying to think of what it reminded me of. Very nightmare before christmas. Looking really nice Lars keep going there is a light at the end of the tunnel.:D |
Post by Alien // Jul 30, 2006, 6:12am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Interesting info, thanks for sharing! Yes 2Gb is a limit to memory, and yes it is easy to start running into that in a 3D app.
I'd be interested to know how Vista impacts it too.
Why not XP 64? [or 64bit Windows Server 2003 if you have more than 2 actual CPUs] I know I've said this before, but... I don't know how difficult it is to port something to 64bit code, whether it's just a case of recompiling, or whether it's more involved than that, & I know Roman said a 64bit v. of tS wasn't on the cards yet as there weren't any speed benefits to 64bit, but going 64bit would remove memory limitations [assuming the user had enough physical memory installed]. I think it's something Caligari should give serious consideration to. |
Post by Birdnest // Jul 30, 2006, 6:19am
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Birdnest
Total Posts: 152
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Nice tree up there! :)
*sniff* I wish I had some doe to purchase TS7 and ZBrush *sniff*............
*Walks off in a corner and starts to cry* |
Post by Shike // Jul 30, 2006, 11:49am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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@Splinters & MadMouse:
Now when you say it...long time since I watched that movie, but the trees might have "rooted" in my subconscious mind ;)
@Alien:
I've been thinking about that but wanted to wait for true 64bit hardware/OS/software.
Don't have any personal experience but heard from other CAD resellers that their customers tried 64bit systems, and ran into big problems. The CAD systems usually support 64bit, but not all the drivers and other softwares.
Even if Caligari released 64bit support the same day Vista was released, I would probably wait half a year or more to be sure that all software/hardware supported it...but that's because I can't afford having a computer that only runs trueSpace ;)
@Birdnest:
Thanks!
*gives hanky, tries to comfort* ;) |
Post by Shike // Jul 30, 2006, 11:54am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Here is the tree with my custom Darktree shader.
1966
Moss on top and making it slightly darker near the ground.
Here is the Darktree shader if anyone want to try it.
1967
Have explained how it works in the description, but the main tweak is
PITCH since it controls which side the moss is on.
PITCH=90 puts the moss on top of things in trueSpace.
The free truespace simbiont for darktree can be downloaded at:
www.darksim.com |
Post by Alien // Jul 30, 2006, 12:01pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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@Alien:
I've been thinking about that but wanted to wait for true 64bit hardware/OS/software.
Don't have any personal experience but heard from other CAD resellers that their customers tried 64bit systems, and ran into big problems. The CAD systems usually support 64bit, but not all the drivers and other softwares.
Even if Caligari released 64bit support the same day Vista was released, I would probably wait half a year or more to be sure that all software/hardware supported it...but that's because I can't afford having a computer that only runs trueSpace ;)
Valid arguments, though you could always setup a dual-boot system, with both XP & XP 64 on it, just as some people do with Linux & XP. I think the only issue people have with XP 64 is drivers. I can't comment on other hardware, as I haven't looked, but according to ATI's site there was a new driver version released for XP 64 Friday [28/07/06], whereas the latest driver for Vista Beta 2 is dated 23/05/06. |
Post by Shike // Jul 30, 2006, 1:55pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Valid arguments, though you could always setup a dual-boot system
Yep, I've thought about that, and when I was young (the time when we had to have multiple boots in DOS using config.sys and autoexec.bat to get different programs and games to start) I might have tried it...but now I'm old (and lazy:o ) and wait until I can afford to buy new 64bit computer with everything installed and working. ;)
Did a "quick" render of the tree in context:
1968 |
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