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ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
ZBrush2 TriBeast in trueSpace7 // Work in Progress
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 2, 2006, 3:55am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Lars - thanks for your reply and the cow beast interpretation. In like what you've done there but I'm wondering if he (she?) is a little too shiney?
I must say my original reaction to the 'what colour should it be?' question was leaning toward bright primary colours like a chameleon lizard - the black and white cow idea came to me because it was as opposite to a chameloen colour scheme as I could think of.
Perhaps they could be chameloen coloured in the wild but evolve to black and white (and unshiney) when bred for domestic purposes!!
Re the anatomical question - I figured you had put so much detailed work into this guy you had to have considered the question at the very least. Maybe these critters just regurgitate the undigested stuff, like a cow chewing it's cud? Whatever you definitely need a better story than 'that's because I couldn't model a 4th leg! |
Post by spacekdet // Jun 2, 2006, 5:56am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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There's nothing wrong with 3 legs! (http://www.larryniven.org/puppeteer/)
Well, except maybe this guy. (http://www.bizbag.com/Old%20ads/O%20J%20DINGO.JPG) |
Post by hemulin // Jun 2, 2006, 6:47am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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There's nothing wrong with 3 legs! (http://www.larryniven.org/puppeteer/)
Well, except maybe this guy. (http://www.bizbag.com/Old%20ads/O%20J%20DINGO.JPG)
Hmm, I agree. :) |
Post by brianalldridge // Jun 2, 2006, 7:38am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Are you going to add an udder?:p |
Post by Shike // Jun 2, 2006, 9:42am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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well I wasn't suggesting you animate it to find out, just pointing out to Wizard how it might go about doing its business.
hmm cow colors look wrong on it.. how about having it a reddish brown, that way the snout can blend into it and the underbelly could be a lighter color, still going with the wrinked leathery skin look.. it might not have evolved fur.
I was actually hoping you or someone else would offer to do the #2 animation :D
You got a point on the snout blending... the pink color sorta clashes with the green skin. It's starting to be a problem that I'm always sketching and painting in greyscale....not sure how to handle colors. :confused:
Hi Lars - thanks for your reply and the cow beast interpretation. In like what you've done there but I'm wondering if he (she?) is a little too shiney?
Yup, it's a bit shiny, just added the texture...and decided to add a bit of specularity to get the glow in player (still a fun effect for me), but I will add a specularity map in the end to get a more "no-plastic" look to it.
Still havn't decided if the final image will be in LightWorks or VRay though.:D
Maybe these critters just regurgitate the undigested stuff, like a cow chewing it's cud? Whatever you definitely need a better story than 'that's because I couldn't model a 4th leg!
Aawh, that's just nasty... but I've also thought about that ;)
Unfortunately I've never been good at creating background storys (or names... come on, Tri-Beast has to be the lamest beast-name so far?! :o )
I've got some StarWars picture-books (Big ILM-fan !) and they have very
detailed background storys about, for example the creatures in the Arena (Episode 2), the Acklay, Nexu and Reek......how do they come up with this?? (that part of my brain seem to be missing) :confused:
The shape of creatures however is something that just comes naturally...don't know why. |
Post by Shike // Jun 2, 2006, 9:43am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Are you going to add an udder?:p
I was veeery close to do that... but decided it might be misunderstood :D |
Post by Alien // Jun 4, 2006, 4:05pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I was veeery close to do that... but decided it might be misunderstood :D
We're mostly a very udderstanding bunch. ;) |
Post by Shike // Jun 4, 2006, 9:56pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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We're mostly a very udderstanding bunch. ;)
Nice one ! :D |
Post by Shike // Jun 4, 2006, 10:48pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Currently working on Normal Mapping ! :cool:
I've decided that I will use a normal map, since I've learned that it is superior to bumpmapping and it's crappy staircase effect resulting from greyscale with only 256 levels. Also, the Normal maps don't need bumpheight, something that always gives me a headache.
The following is my thoughts on normal maps, correct me if I'm wrong.
Tangent Space Normal maps - Looks mostly blue, and have similar function as an ordinary bump-map, but without heightvalue and staircase artifacts (maybe a little but not noticable, since the map contains thousands of colors).
This can be used directly with the new ts7 normalmap shader for Lightworks and VRay.
Object Space Normal maps - Much more colorful and contains the normal information about the entire object. Created as the difference between a high resolution and low res mesh.
Makes a 1000poly mesh look as smooth as a 10000 mesh (except around the edges.)
The new ts7-player poly reduction tool creates this, but you have to do some LinkEditor work for the normal map to be useful in the render engines.
(luckily it's described in the manual)
Problem:
I can't figgure out how to use an externally generated ObjSpaceNormMap in ts7. :o
ZBrush can (with the free ZMapper plugin) generate both OjbSpace and TangentSpace from the difference between the highest and a selected subdiv level.
I wanted to use the 1.9Million poly level to create fine detail and then with the help of ObjSpcNrmMap use the 200k poly in ts7 (faster renders, remember, I'm impatient ;) )
Solution:
I will in ZB generate a TngSpcNormMap from the difference between 1.9M poly and the current 500k. I've done som testing and it seems to work in Player, Lightworks and VRay.
But it takes ages for ZB to calculate it...Makes me completely :banana: !
( and for safety, I restart ZB after that since it starts talking about compressing memory...makes me nervous :rolleyes: )
Then why don't I use the ts7 Poly reduction tool to create the ObjSpcNormMap ?
(biggest reason is that I havn't worked enough with the LinkEditor to be comfy with it. :o )
But if I understand it, when you use it, it keeps the original highlevel model to be able to change the level of detail on the reduced triangulated one.
To brake that link you have to export the reduced one and reload it and do some LEditor work....and I already get close to the 32bit windows 2Gb memory limit with the 1.9Mpoly-beast and it's texture and normal map (each 3500x3500pixels).
Does anyone have any experience with PolyReduction on 2million polys?
(with a higher normal map generation size than the default 512x512)
Note: The grass is still not greener on the other side ;)
Remember what I previously showed about ZB?
To be able to actually work with that amount of polygons in ZB I have to hide what isn't necessary.
On my computer the following apply:
500k polybeast: I could work smoothly with the head or a leg...
1.9Mpolybeast: Can work smoothly with the feet or 1/4 of the head...
So this is the reason why I didn't have a new pic after the weekend (this and some gaming. ;) )..well technically it's still weekend in Sweden. National day tomorrow..and I seem to have missed some memo because I'm alone in the office today...everyone else seems to be taking the day off :o
( The only hard worker...hrmm, posting on this not very workrelated site :rolleyes: ) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 5, 2006, 1:18am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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There's nothing wrong with 3 legs! (http://www.larryniven.org/puppeteer/)
Actually I thought of the Piersons Puppeteer as soon as I saw the Tri-beast. I didn't know it had it's own website! Thanks for the link.
I've even considered modelling a Piersons Puppeteer but time and other demands.... maybe one day. |
Post by Shike // Jun 6, 2006, 6:42am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Pfff...a lot of detailing left, but here's how far I've gotten on the normalmapped version. (Lightworks HDRI)
1536
Not sure about the wrinkels at the arm/legs bending area... a little too small I think..
And the scales on the shoulders needs to be mor visible...sharper contrast.
And below is a comparison, without & with normalmap.
1537
Really not a lot of difference but at least it adds a little detail without making the model to heavy rendered :rolleyes:
Ah, now back to the Hitman game :p |
Post by noko // Jun 6, 2006, 6:37pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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This is looking very good if not awesome. Can't wait to see more detail. |
Post by Shike // Jun 6, 2006, 9:40pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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This is looking very good if not awesome. Can't wait to see more detail.
Thanks! :)
I really hope the texturing part will be easier when I've added a rougher skin...
..the smooth skin would have work if it was a aqua-creature or maybe a horror-critter like the doglike(wheelchair merged) creature in the DOOM-movie. :rolleyes: |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 6, 2006, 9:47pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Shes looking great Lars. It is a she right. Oh no hang on, no udders must be a he :) cant wait for your next post mate.
ATB
Steve |
Post by Shike // Jun 6, 2006, 10:21pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Shes looking great Lars. It is a she right. Oh no hang on, no udders must be a he :) cant wait for your next post mate.
Thanks!
He,he...I think this critter has to be an "IT" since it doesn't seem to have any way to reproduce or doing #1 & #2 :D
Although... the flying dragonlike critter in the "Evolution"-movie actually threw up it's baby...with enough imagination everything seems to be possible ;)
Oh, btw, I'm looking foward to your next Mech-post also :) |
Post by Shike // Jun 17, 2006, 4:00pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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1606
ts7 Lightworks HDRI, 170k polys + normalmap (generated as difference between 1.9M and 170k poly)
Took a while but now the TriBeast is progressing again. :rolleyes:
Rejected a couple of experimental textures before getting to this point, but now it feels like I'm on the right track. |
Post by Alien // Jun 17, 2006, 4:06pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Very cool, with that colour scheme he kinda reminds me of Genestealers (http://images.google.co.uk/images?&num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&btnG=Google+Search&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_qdr=all&as_dt=i&as_rights=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi&q=genestealers). :) |
Post by Methusela // Jun 17, 2006, 9:47pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Ah yes, those improvements are amazing! Well done sir.
I still didn't get my ZB2 to install. XD |
Post by Shike // Jun 18, 2006, 2:15am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Very cool, with that colour scheme he kinda reminds me of Genestealers :)
Thanks :)
Don't think that this gentle veggie-eater would survive an encounter with Genestealers though ;)
Ah yes, those improvements are amazing! Well done sir.
I still didn't get my ZB2 to install. XD
Thanks, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
The first texture post I did... well, I have to admit that I wondered if it wouldn't have been easier just to give it a marble material and called it a statue ;)
Sorry to hear about the installation problems.... if JAVA wasn't the bad guy and you can't find a solution in their FAQ... then I'm out of ideas. :confused:
You might register on their free forum (similar to this one) and see if someone else has the same problem. |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 18, 2006, 7:11am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Rejected a couple of experimental textures before getting to this point, but now it feels like I'm on the right track. On the right track.... I'll say your on the right track the skin texture looks great the only crit that I have is the eye lacks detail and gloss and looks a little dead because of that.
Otherwise, great work mate.
Steve |
Post by Shike // Jun 19, 2006, 7:17am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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On the right track.... I'll say your on the right track the skin texture looks great the only crit that I have is the eye lacks detail and gloss and looks a little dead because of that.
Thanks :)
Oh, and you are really on the right track about the eyes...they are truly dead.. I just painted them flat black with some yellow as a "fake reflection" :D
Not sure if it would be enough to use a reflection-map for the eyes (and possibly for moist areas) or if I somehow need to delete a bundle of polygons and replace them with nice trueSpace eyes..:confused:
The problem with deleting polygons are that he/she will most likely end up with ugly jagged eyelines...then he/she wont be able to attract males/females :rolleyes: |
Post by Alien // Jun 19, 2006, 11:06am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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The problem with deleting polygons are that he/she will most likely end up with ugly jagged eyelines...then he/she wont be able to attract males/females :rolleyes:
Why not flattern out the eye, then use the plastiform tool to push in an eye socket, then you can put an eye in, & then create eyelids as needed. |
Post by Methusela // Jun 20, 2006, 12:46am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Or you could sorta cop out and simply put some nice TS eyes overtop of the existing ones... |
Post by Shike // Jun 20, 2006, 10:49am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Why not flattern out the eye, then use the plastiform tool to push in an eye socket, then you can put an eye in, & then create eyelids as needed.
Might be worth a try, a little worried how it will work on a 500k poly objekt.
It seems like I have to go back to that highdensity object because the 170k looked to jagged in closeup. :(
...ah how much time I would have saved if I could figured out how to create an eyesocket in ZB. One would think that a software primarily for creature modelling would have a specific tool for that..;)
Or you could sorta cop out and simply put some nice TS eyes overtop of the existing ones....
That seems like a very good and easy solution ! Then I could have one textured sphere and one glass sphere...similar to this one (from another WIP)
1621
This is how it looked with just a reflection map for the eye...still looks rather dead :(
(didn't take into account that low eyes like this will only reflect the ground...)
1620
But I like the way it makes the tongue look wet, so with some more work the mouth area might be ok. |
Post by hemulin // Jun 20, 2006, 10:55am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Nice looking Eye |
Post by Shike // Jun 20, 2006, 11:16am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Nice looking Eye
Thanks ! :D
One of thoose great articles in 3Dworld showed how to create one... think I've seen the method described on other places on the web also.
For thoose interested, below is the wireframe/render of the two parts.
One glass piece with a bulge (havn't given it a bump yet), and the textured piece with indentation.
1622 |
Post by Methusela // Jun 21, 2006, 3:51am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I looked at your site. You're bloody good in Photoshop mate! |
Post by Shike // Jun 21, 2006, 9:54am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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I looked at your site. You're bloody good in Photoshop mate!
Thanks ! :o
Still consider myself to be an enthusiastic amatuer though ;) |
Post by hemulin // Jun 21, 2006, 9:57am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Thanks ! :o
Still consider myself to be an enthusiastic amatuer though ;)
They always say that" :cool: |
Post by Shike // Jun 23, 2006, 3:55am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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They always say that" :cool:
Wouldn't be very Swedish of me to brag, we're a shy and humble people :D
( and since I only master about 10% of all the functions in Photoshop...amateur still applies ;) )
1649
Ah, it was easier than I thought to hollow out the eyesockets...not sure that I will use this human eye though but it will have to do for a while.
(I'll do some image-googling later to see if there is any cool animal eyes that I could try to recreate.)
Now I'm going to try to add som high frequency detail with the help of DarkTree.... |
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