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will 6.6 bones convert to 7.5?
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will 6.6 bones convert to 7.5? // Roundtable
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 30, 2006, 7:46am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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If I rig a character with the current bones system will that be portable into the new animation system coming out with 7.5? Or will I need to re-rig the character to take advantage of the new features in 7.5?
I'd rather Caligari spend the time on making the new system great, but it'd be good to know before I spend too much time rigging and animating stuff.
-Jack. |
Post by Bobbins // Sep 30, 2006, 8:07am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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If I rig a character with the current bones system will that be portable into the new animation system coming out with 7.5? Or will I need to re-rig the character to take advantage of the new features in 7.5?
I'd rather Caligari spend the time on making the new system great, but it'd be good to know before I spend too much time rigging and animating stuff.
-Jack.
Absolute, honest answer - I have no idea at all.
I would expect that the existing bones/IK system will still be available in tS7.5 on the model side even if the new system isn't compatible so any time spent now won't be lost. There might be some translation between the two systems, but I wouldn't like to speculate how much or little that might be. |
Post by Tiles // Sep 30, 2006, 9:27pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Keep in mind that the current TS Bones System is eons old. Every trueSpace version since TS 4 brought more bugs and quirks to it. And ts 4 is from 1998. So i personally wouldn't mind to see it disappear. It is more than time to replace it with something working. I wouldn't bother with it until you really need it. Maybe better tinker around with Motion Studio from Primitive Itch meanwhile. Freeware now. Mostu skeletons cannot be exported though. So it depends of your needs.
... tS7.5 on the model side ...
Ouch. Sounds like the Modeler and Bridge will still be present in 7.5. Alright, let's wait for TS 8. I am young. I can wait. This bus really drives in some strange directions though ... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2006, 6:02am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah I agree with Tiles, was kinda hoping that modeler side would go buh-bye in 7.5 but I guess that would make it an 8.0 upgrade instead of a point upgrade... *sigh*
Only reason I was leaning more towards using the native bones with Puppeteer is that I'm going to need to work with X format export and with MoStu no longer supported, that's clearly not going to be portable or carry over to the new animation engine... Then again with the pose blending MoStu is more fun and fairly quick to work with and there's the video animation course on MoStu.
So I guess it's just a matter of the eta on 7.5... guess it really doen't matter too much which I use since I'm probably going to have to convert it to vertex animation anyway...:(
Thanks for the answers guys.
-JAck. |
Post by Bobbins // Oct 1, 2006, 6:46am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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The Model side can't go away anytime soon. If you lose the Model side completely then you are throw away all backwards compatibility with previous versions of trueSpace. You would not be able to load any .scn or .cob files for starters and you wouldn't be able to render in LightWorks.
The best that can happen is that the Player side is brought up to a level where there is little need for the Model side, so the Bridge can be turned off in normal use. If you wanted to load an old scene or mesh or modify something using a tSX, you could turn the Bridge on, transfer to Model side, make the changes, transfer back to Player and then turn the Bridge off again. |
Post by Tiles // Oct 1, 2006, 7:06am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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What backwards compatiblility? It has never worked hasslefree. In no version. Loading a mesh in TS 6.6 from TS 7 for example looses the textures. That for save as 6.6 file. And with earlier versions the fun is even greater. Ever tried to load a boned and animated 4.3 mesh into 6.6? Weeha! On from scratch. Conclusion: Porting animated stuff is pointless.
Porting just textured meshes can be done with other tricks. Even modeling is more comfortable in 6.6. No need for modeler and bridge.
The best that can happen is to get rid off of modeler and bridge. Then recreate the most needed tools to receive a working trueSpace version, finally. That's my opinion. And i am sure i am not the only one ;) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2006, 8:10am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I think backward compatability could be maintained just by writing a 6.6 plugin that saves out (converts) to 7.5/8.0 file format. :D
Then just ship 6.6 with the new version...
-Jack. |
Post by mrbones // Oct 1, 2006, 8:16am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Check out trueBones.com. |
Post by GraySho // Oct 1, 2006, 8:18am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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I don't understand why the bridge idea wasn't dismissed by a solid import function. For someone who has bought plugins it wouldn't really matter either, I guess anyone who bought plugins, has a previous version of tS to use them, new users who only have ts7+ wouldn't buy old plugins anyway.
I also don't understand why it shouldn't be possible to use lightworks with the new ts7 core. Does that mean that by version 8 we can't use lightworks anymore, or the bridge will be dragged into any future version? |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 1, 2006, 10:21am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I have no idea what Caligari is planning, but I would prefer that they work completely from scratch with TS7.5... what was is no longer important, it is now time to move on to better things... Hail, the King is dead! Hail the new King!
I would also prefer the quick and immediate loss of the Bridge and Modeler... let TS 7.5 (and beyond) stand on it's own. Caligari and it's developers have created some creative and wonderful tools in the past and will in the future, the whole backward compatible thing is just slowing down the whole development process.
Rich |
Post by TomG // Oct 2, 2006, 3:35am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi all,
Hmm, not as simple as all that. For instance, Lightworks is dependent as yet on the Modeler, so you would lose iPak functionality to render to layers. New customers certainly DO still use plug-ins - Motion Studio is one prime candidate, along with gamePak, and all those modeling tools from Primitive Itch and CK Game Factory for instance.
Now sure we hope that most of that functionality will be replaced by the new systems, but people still want to have access to those plug-ins. And of course an importer would not solve that problem :)
So for now the bridge will still be there, but with the aim of it being much less necessary - basically people can start moving over to the new tools and leaving the old tools behind. With the bridge option there, you can choose to do that slowly, or of course you can do just what you say and dive straight in and switch it off and just make the transition overnight, refusing to use old plugins and just adapting to the new tools.
But the advantage is you can CHOOSE to do that, and are not forced to do it if you'd rather move across more slowly.
I for one though will be switching the bridge off for the most part and just using the new tools tS7 side!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Tiles // Oct 2, 2006, 7:18am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Not lucky to read this. Starting TS 7.1 means to start three different softwares at once. TS 6.6 core, Bridge and TS 7. Not very performance friendly. I still would prefer an external convertor ...
Will there at least be some bugfixing at the modeler? Like bring back double click in the object info panel, or get rid off of the playerside configuration library when loading a selfmade configuration? Because at the moment i am always fronted with the configuration library when i load my own settings ... |
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