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Demo for V7.5?
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Demo for V7.5? // Roundtable
Post by KeithC // Oct 3, 2006, 6:57am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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I don't mean to stir up anything, but has anybody heard anything official/unofficial about a 7.5 demo (I'm assuming they're waiting for 7.5 to come out). I haven't been around much here lately. Also, any word on how close Caligari is to putting 7.5 out?
-Keith |
Post by Zeipher // Oct 3, 2006, 7:11am
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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I could have sworn this was already dealt with... but then again I seem to remember you being the one to ask it before, lol.
I seem to recall that there would definately be no demo until 7.5 is released, as they would rather spend their time making changes. I can imagine it's also pretty difficult to hazzard an accurate guess as to when 7.5 would be released, as there are a lot of new features added, and sadly with them come bugs. I think Caligari prefers not to give away dates and times because if they go over people tend to get angry and whiny... obviously that's just my opinion... they may leave out the whiny bit :)
So, in answer to your first question... no, I don't think 'anyone' has heard anything about a demo, apart from what I've already said, and there is also no word as to when 7.5 is out. |
Post by JPSofCA // Oct 3, 2006, 10:48am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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Yes, in the past, release dates have been at the root of several of these --> :mad:
But I would like to hear an aproximation too...something like "halfway there", "nearing the final stages", "we've got a long way to go" or "we've been focusing on a family of trueSpace-related products like truePlay and trueServe, so we really haven't done much with it...but as soon as these products are complete we'll finish it and then realize we have to rework the related products for issues we didn't realize would exist until the completion of the core trueSpace product was done. Who would have thought that building related products before the core product was complete would impose limitations on the evolution of the core product itself, maybe we should have waited to see if any major core changes would be helpful early on by allowing the first generation of the new core to go through rigorous use, then for tS8 know what changes would be made to the core product in order to concurrently implement the full feature set into the foundation of all the related products"...something.
At any rate, although a timeframe not met would cause ":mad:", for all the time in between it could create a false sense of ":D" to keep the vultures from picking at the corpse while there's still a pulse. |
Post by KeithC // Oct 6, 2006, 3:51am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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For all the ":mad:" that would undoubtedly come from a timeline given but not met; I imagine the numbers of ":mad:" from not releasing a demo, has resulted in the attention of the artist going "elsewhere" for a demo of another product. I still come by now and then to see updates on TS 7.5; hopefully it's not far off now.
-Keith |
Post by Steinie // Oct 6, 2006, 5:09am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I would think a Company would put out a demo after a release to increase sales. So all the people who paid for the upgrade to 7.5 should be the first to complain about release dates etc. (They put their money down already) You don't hear much complaining from them because they want it done right.
Now to hear someone complain about a lack of a demo doesn't carry much weight with me. You haven't made a commitment yet.
It sort of like a new car...you drive it, you like it, you buy it. Caligari has a money back guarantee so when 7.5 comes out drive it, like it and buy it. I think a demo is not at the top of their to do list right now. After a release date that will probably change. Why wait? Put your efforts into seeing if you like the thing rather then if the thing is going to be a demo....
Nothing personal! |
Post by KeithC // Oct 6, 2006, 5:35am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Caligari has a money back guarantee
I've heard that arguement before, and it doesn't "carry much weight with me". A money back guaruntee isn't a subsitute for an actual demo. How many people would forget about the date, and be stuck with something they weren't sure they wanted in the first place? Sure it's on them to make sure they keep track of time; but do you really want several severely unhappy members around the forums?
You haven't made a commitment yet.
Sure I have; I've been using TrueSpace and GameSpace for awhile now; it's not my responsability to "fund" the development of a piece of software. It's the company's responsability to show the potential user why their software is better than another. Every other company I know does this with a demo, not a "money-back guaruntee".
Oh, nothing personal....
-Keith |
Post by Steinie // Oct 6, 2006, 7:27am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Apparently this was already addressed on 6/22
TomG said "the answer now being that we are waiting for tS7.5 before releasing a demo."
So start asking "when is TS7.5 ready?" instead of "when is the demo ready?"
I never implied there shouldn't be a demo but you do need the program first... |
Post by KeithC // Oct 6, 2006, 7:36am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Of course that's assuming that the demo isn't pushed back till TS7.x, right? Your 'car-buying' analogy seems to be advocating a demo, rather than buying something and getting your money back. It just seems like Caligari is waiting until TrueSpace is flawless before attempting to put out a demo; it's never going to be flawless, no program is.
-Keith |
Post by Steinie // Oct 6, 2006, 7:39am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Nope you usually buy the car you just drove. Your right about with the car you pay after you try it. |
Post by KeithC // Oct 6, 2006, 7:43am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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I don't know about you, but I like to drive several cars before laying down my money. That goes for anything of significant cost. I don't know anybody that doesn't shop around before buying. If all 3D Modelers chose to have a "money-back" guaruntee; it would take quite awhile to test them all out. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 6, 2006, 7:53am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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and have you returned the car within 30 days for a refund? |
Post by KeithC // Oct 6, 2006, 8:06am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Huh? I'm not quite sure where you're going with that. The problem is (in my opinion anyways) is that in the past I have seen various problems that were brought up, only to remain unresolved. Hopefully (since they re-wrote the architecture of TS) these things will be addressed; like program instability, a real undo function, proper .X animation exporting (it's going to be a long time before GameSpace is updated from the looks of it) and .X mesh importing, a much better bones system, etc.
Now, some of these issues may already be fixed, but I'm not willing to buy TS7 "on faith" that these issues are resolved, or will be in the near future. I don't have hundreds of dollars to put on hold for a month while i decide whether or not I want a program. Cinema 4D V10 is just coming out, and they already have a demo up for download. Having a demo out for download shows the consumer that you are confident in your product. |
Post by TomG // Oct 9, 2006, 1:50am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Lack of demo was nothing to do with lack of confidence - the whole issue of "demo or no demo" was discussed in depth (and I belive with you Keith ;) ) a long long time ago, some 6 months back.
The reasons, to simplify quickly, were that tS7 is a complex program and a demo would potentially be more confusing than helpful; some of the new architecture made a demo difficult to create while avoiding issues like making it too hackable to give a "free" tS7; while there are many here who say they like demos, whenever one is created we always get complaints about the method (time limited, save limited, poly limited - every way causes someone to write in and complain); much of tS7 is about collaboration, and that raises whole new technical issues and questions about a demo (most demos do NOT have anything to do with interacting with others, the software is stand alone which simplifies things, the minute you get in to collaboration you get clever ways around things like save limitations for instance).
So, there were a lot of reasons, which were given back then when people asked, as to why a demo was not immediately released. Instead we considered never releasing a demo. Instead, truePlay coupled with free videos were seen as perhaps fulfilling the role, you get to see the real-time renderer, hook up in real-time with people with tS7 and see the tools being put to use, etc.
Time however has shown that people wanted a demo still, and we agreed some months back that was exactly what we were now planning, but that there was no point investing the time (quite significant - see above about the various points that the technical issues here for safely protecting our hard work are very different from those faced by other 3D companies, as our product is now offering something unique and very different that changes the face of what a demo means, how it can be "cheated', and so on) in making that demo until tS7.5 was out - particularly since many of the things people want to test, like new bones, were not going to be there until tS7.5.
And that recaps on everything that has been said on the subject over the last 8 months or so :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Methusela // Oct 9, 2006, 5:58am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Sorry to be a bother Tom, you probably get too much of this, but is there any sort of update in the battle of 7.5? I only ask because I think when TS7 or 7.1 was released we were given an estimate of around about six months. I think it's been a little over that (7.1 was released in February right?), and I've got a bunch of projects waiting on these here animation tools everyone's getting all excited about. I've been checking on the Captain's Blog religiously, but I was more looking for something along the lines of what JPSofCA said about the 'nearly done,' 'within the year,' or 'way the heck out there still.'
Sorry again about nagging >_< |
Post by TomG // Oct 9, 2006, 7:20am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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No apologies necessary, no nagging involved :)
Unfortunately though I can't give an answer :( As ever with a release, we like to keep quiet until as close to the last minute as possible. This is due to release dates usually slipping / changing and the result is that it makes everyone unhappy. Nature of the software business :(
So what we'll do is wait until we are as sure as we can be about the release date before info comes out. Anything else on the release date at the moment will have to come from Roman himself, but for now that's all I can say.
We are as eager to give you a date as you are to get one, though, if that is any small consolation! As soon as we can, we will let you know, even if we can give some rough estimate (when it isn't TOO rough).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Methusela // Oct 10, 2006, 12:42am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Ah, thanks Tom.
So, funny story, I came pretty much straight here without looking at the roundtable forum at all, so my suggestion was going to be along the lines of 'well, how about Roman could write another blog for us to keep things interesting.'
Funny, I didn't know you lot could tell the future... |
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