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Harold's New Bike
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Harold's New Bike // Work in Progress
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 5:53am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have had so much support regarding my plans to try and get my Children's books published as well as the Harold thread that I have decided to make this a real WIP so you can see how the book evolves. I have already posted some preliminary pictures in the Harold thread but I will eventually post each completed page so the whole book will be shown here before anyone else sees it. Hope that does not sound too boring. I just need to mark 300 examination papers before I get started so bear with me...:confused:
Here is a taster (WIP remember)... |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 8, 2006, 7:58am
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MadMouse
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Excellent Idea Paul I've always been interested as to how your books look and to be able to see a whole book is a real treat.
More More More Please!!:)
Steve |
Post by hemulin // Jun 8, 2006, 8:35am
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hemulin
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I just need to mark 300 examination papers
:D Lucky you
Nice start btw |
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 9:35am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Excellent Idea Paul I've always been interested as to how your books look and to be able to see a whole book is a real treat.
More More More Please!!:)
Steve
There are always samples from the books on my website Madmouse, but I will still chart the progress of this one right here...:D
www.woodwardp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
TIP: Choose the black ball |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 8, 2006, 9:57am
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MadMouse
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There are always samples from the books on my website Madmouse
Yep, seen 'em. Just excited about seeing a complete book.:D |
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 11:58am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Yep, seen 'em. Just excited about seeing a complete book.:D
You could be waiting some time before you see the whole finished book but I will do my best...
remember, these are just placeholders so you can see the book evolve-never would these be used as final pages. |
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 12:03pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Harold at home. This is strange...like being naked in public-I don't normally show my roughs and tests...:( |
Post by Délé // Jun 8, 2006, 4:48pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Nice start Paul! I don't think I've ever seen a wip from you before. This should be fun to watch. And surely someone with your talent should have no reason to feel self conscious. :) |
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 9:09pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Nice start Paul! I don't think I've ever seen a wip from you before. This should be fun to watch. And surely someone with your talent should have no reason to feel self conscious. :)
Dele, you are right. I am normally a post the finished article sort of guy. Quite clear on the look and style I want normally but I thought it would be fun to let others in on this-never know, might make all the difference to this book. Working in solitude can be a bad thing...;) |
Post by rchappell // Jun 8, 2006, 9:28pm
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rchappell
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Absolutely marvelous work Splinters! I love the style, it is very pleasing to the eye. I think you have all the elements right; a strong storyline with wide appeal, great characterisation (I feel like I know Harold personally) and a great overall approach - Definately a winning combination here. |
Post by splinters // Jun 8, 2006, 11:06pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Absolutely marvelous work Splinters! I love the style, it is very pleasing to the eye. I think you have all the elements right; a strong storyline with wide appeal, great characterisation (I feel like I know Harold personally) and a great overall approach - Definately a winning combination here.
Alas, narrow minded publishers do not agree-and I have been showing these to them since 2002-they still want traditional illustrations...infuriating in this day and age isn't it?
Ironically they all scramble to get the license to print books based on CGI movies.
I just can't work it out...:( |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 9, 2006, 12:28am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Alas, narrow minded publishers do not agree-and I have been showing these to them since 2002-they still want traditional illustrations...infuriating in this day and age isn't it?
Hmmn - infuriating is right. I may have asked this before and of course I know you are (rightfully) keen to keep your signature illustration style but ... have you thought about taking the illustrations from just one book and running them through a few PSP filters to try to disguise the 'computer art' look? Not that your pictures really have that strong a 'computer art' look to them - by which i mean they already have a strong 'illustration' look about them IMHO.
Just a though really - it might be enough to get you started with a published book.
On another note - I'm like everyone else really looking forward to seeing Harolds next adventure unfold in this thread.... |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 2:05am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Hmmn - infuriating is right. I may have asked this before and of course I know you are (rightfully) keen to keep your signature illustration style but ... have you thought about taking the illustrations from just one book and running them through a few PSP filters to try to disguise the 'computer art' look? Not that your pictures really have that strong a 'computer art' look to them - by which i mean they already have a strong 'illustration' look about them IMHO.
Just a though really - it might be enough to get you started with a published book.
On another note - I'm like everyone else really looking forward to seeing Harolds next adventure unfold in this thread....
I think we had this conversation before Wizard...if I needed to do that to get published, and I do appreciate your point of view, I would probably rather not. It would be much easier to just draw these illustrations in 2D than to go through the whole process of modelling, textures and lighting just to flatten it to a 2D representation.
I do use a dreamy photo filter at 20-30% to take the edge off the CGI as well as some PS work but that is about it.
I really understand where you are coming from but I am defiant little bugger and rarely conform. I guess I may live to regret that but I will retain some dignity ansd individuality-that is more important to me at the moment. Thanks all the same for the support...:) |
Post by Steinie // Jun 9, 2006, 3:14am
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Steinie
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Publishers do not want to take risk. They are real slow in the Evolutionary process in the Art field as you are finding out the hard way. One way that has been brought up by you or someone else is to Publish yourself. If you could show sales the Publishers would then show interest. In their minds kid books are done by Illustrators the old fashion way. It's been done, it works and it sells. Books with 3d works based on films are sold because of the interest in the Movies not the fact 3d was used in a book. You have to find a way to break thru the obstacles. I can tell your a tough nut (so am I) but they can certainly outlast us! I think Wizard had a great idea because of an unmentioned fact. Once your works ARE out there you can slowly change it to what you have now!
First get sold, build your fan base then modify. Just a Steinie opinion because I care!
I am curious about a couple things about your work. What age group are you after? What reasons are you hearing when they show no interest...style, story, etc.? Have you ever shown your work to someone who has been published for their thoughts? The agents you selected to sell your work, what was their thoughts based on their previous experiences? |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 9, 2006, 3:14am
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MadMouse
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I really understand where you are coming from but I am defiant little bugger and rarely conform.and you shouldnt!!!
Wizard has a point but I'm with you. Would Da vinci of put a cheesy grin on mona's face
if his publishers had insisted on it??? I think not.
Acceptance for you own skill if far better than adaption to gain acceptance.
(if that makes sense) |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 3:26am
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splinters
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Steinie, these books were once with a literary agent and have made it as far as editorial commitee (last stage before a contract is offered). General feeling from the more 'liberal' publishers was; "these are really good and show a high level of creativity and technical ability, we just don't know where to place them!" (paraphrased of course). I had to part company with my literary agent eventually (personal reasons) and have had little interest since. Contacting publishers directly is a nightmare.
Then again I was busy completing a masters degree, holding down a management position at work and getting the TS7 UI done-not to mention trying to have a family life. Things just got a little left behind in the book department but I am back with avengance now...:) ;)
Oh, and thanks for the support guys... |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 11:06am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Little update as promised. Just changed a few materials. Gloves bit too bright, boots too shiny...then again, they are new... |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 11:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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And before his little 'crisis'; |
Post by stoker // Jun 9, 2006, 12:36pm
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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Nice Work..............as usual!!!:D..................although on the pic of harold with helmet on it does look a little like his glasses are going through the helmet;);):) |
Post by xmanflash // Jun 9, 2006, 2:20pm
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Alas, narrow minded publishers do not agree-and I have been showing these to them since 2002-they still want traditional illustrations...infuriating in this day and age isn't it?
Ironically they all scramble to get the license to print books based on CGI movies.
I just can't work it out...:(
Splinters.. dont give up (ala kate bush/pete gabriel!).. the syle is brilliant, and the book market will catch up.. The market is so flooded with cute illustration (I have a 3 and 7yo) that its a refreshing change to see youre stuff.. its definately a more 'boy' style genre.. maybe start a 'Boys Book' label..
Also why not start a website (I'll help if you want) with short stories for free for kids, and then leverage off of the popularity of that? - You can get into womens/mothers/fathers magazines with this new 'style' of work etc..
PM me if you want to chat a bit.. |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 3:21pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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PM me if you want to chat a bit..
I may well do that Mr Flash...;) |
Post by splinters // Jun 9, 2006, 3:22pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Nice Work..............as usual!!!:D..................although on the pic of harold with helmet on it does look a little like his glasses are going through the helmet;);):)
You may be right there Mr Stoker. I will fix it...after all it is a WIP...;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 10, 2006, 9:20pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I think we had this conversation before Wizard...if I needed to do that to get published, and I do appreciate your point of view, I would probably rather not. It would be much easier to just draw these illustrations in 2D than to go through the whole process of modelling, textures and lighting just to flatten it to a 2D representation.
I do use a dreamy photo filter at 20-30% to take the edge off the CGI as well as some PS work but that is about it.
I really understand where you are coming from but I am defiant little bugger and rarely conform. I guess I may live to regret that but I will retain some dignity ansd individuality-that is more important to me at the moment. Thanks all the same for the support...:)
I thought we'd discussed this at some stage ;) . And I fully respect and understand your position (I like defiant buggers and consider conformity as being for those poor souls who lack imagination!!:D ) .
I guess the rational behind my suggestion is what I'd call 'The Bruce Springsteen Effect'. Bruce had his own unique style and sound and was simply not making any commercial headway at all with the music he liked to create. He then made a deliberately commercial record - Born in the USA - simply as a marketing ploy. Once his name was established he went back to creating what he wanted to create. Another musical phenomenon to use this strategy was Queen - and once their unique style had an audience it was a massive success.
I agree with Madmouse to a certain extent as well - you shouldn't HAVE to 'sell out' or compromise your artistic integrity but ultimately the artwork produced is 'product' and selling it is a 'marketing' exercise. (I also believe that Da Vinci produced the much of his artwork on comission and therefore was often little more than a paid illustrator - I could be confusing him with Michaelangelo there though!).
Steinie has got it right - first get sold and establish a fan base. This is the most efficient and proven way to go. Many successful artists, authors, musicians and movie makers got successful by 'playing the game' initially to establish themselves.
Either way you will have my respect and support and best wishes!! |
Post by djaram // Jun 11, 2006, 12:15am
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djaram
Total Posts: 73
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I love your pictures and a nice story telling.
Great Job,
Keep up the good work.:banana: |
Post by splinters // Jun 11, 2006, 9:53am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Thanks all, I will try to get some updates this week. I may even post the finished story and see if my images eventually match those in your head. |
Post by splinters // Jun 20, 2006, 11:33pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ok, a bit quiet around here so I thought I would show one particular image develop from a concept. Here harold finally finds his dream bike after weeks of looking. Story line here needs tweaking and that will affect the final image but I wanted to have him looking in a shop window with some nice shadows and reflections-plenty going on for the kiddies to see. Here is a scan from my sketchbook (a more treasured piece of equipment than any PC..:D )
Will post a very rough render later today...:rolleyes: |
Post by splinters // Jun 21, 2006, 8:35am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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OK then...this is how I work-quick animatic quality shot for composition followed by simple texture test and then simple lighting. Long way to go here...and obviously the real Harold is not a cylinder...:D |
Post by hemulin // Jun 21, 2006, 8:38am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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They may seem like a stupid question, but why stick a purple block in place of Harold. Why not one of the tS character models? (not criticising btw :p ) |
Post by splinters // Jun 21, 2006, 8:41am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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They may seem like a stupid question, but why stick a purple block in place of Harold. Why not one of the tS character models? (not criticising btw :p )
Just speed really Hemulin. I expect a lot more detail in here so I am just keeping it simple for now so I can throw this scene around at speed. Once the content is about done I will drop Harold in and mess some more-making sure the textures and colours allow him to remain prominent. Harold is probably getting a makeover in his 'non-biker' outfit anyway, and consider how many poly's on the Ducati-there may even be more than one (and that is not allowing for other characters in the scene). |
Post by splinters // Jun 21, 2006, 12:18pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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What a difference an hour or so makes. A bit more detail, a banner, some folk in the background and I might be ready to drop Harold and the bike in here... |
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