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tS7, future and some thoughts
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS7, future and some thoughts // Roundtable
Post by KeithC // Nov 9, 2006, 5:52am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Well, I don't really consider myself a jerk. I care very much on the direction that Caligari goes with GameSpace/TrueSpace. Sometimes I may get too "passionate" about things, but I can tell you it doesn't bring me pleasure to post as I occassionally do; regardless of what some people think.
People are frustrated, people are feeling unheard, left out etc
I have felt all of these things, mostly due to the demo issue.
Apparently I've become the "Jonah" of the forums here. |
Post by TomG // Nov 9, 2006, 6:13am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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" I was charged triple the price for a package I already owned"
I don't understand this statement. We haven't charged any tS6.6 owners three times what they paid for tS6.6 to upgrade, unless someone somewhere got a really good deal on tS6.6.
And it was not a package you already owned of course, that too is factually inaccurate. Once again we return to other software versions. How much of what you get is indeed "new code" and how much is "old code". Most likely 75% or more is "old code". But you never know.
tS7 is JUST the same. There are a lot of new features in tS7 that are not in tS6.6, even as it stands right now. If you never use them, don't like, that is one thing - but to say tS7 is "a package I already owned" is in fact not true.
And this is no different than buying a 2D app and finding you don't use their new features since they are all for photographers and you paint from scratch. Or an upgrade to an office suite and finding you don't use the new features as they are all for collaboration.
While that means the upgrade may prove not worth it to you, that is a very different thing from being "a package I already owned".
There is no way that tS7 is the same thing as tS6.6, there is a lot extra in there. Quick things off the top of my head without even trying
1. Improved real-time modeler (faster, more accurate, more materials, no tearing bug, able to handle much higher polygon scenes than ever, includes shadows)
2. Edge loop selection
3. New virtualight render engine fully integrated (no export and render)
4. HDRI
5. New procedural animation capabilities
6. New customisable interface right down to toolbars, icons and widgets
7. New scripting capabilities
8. New SDS which has a much better algorithm
9. Normal mapping
10. Option to add new render engines (fully integrated, not export and render)
11. New physics that is much faster and more accurate, and which you can interact with in realtime, and which can interact with objects animated by keyframes or procedural animation, and which can be captured and turned into keyframe animation
11. Ability to record and playback things in the 3D scene for a new kind of tutorial
12. Ability to join a shared space, where you can watch others work, and others can see you work
13. Soft selection for point editing your objects
And there will be more, that's what I can come up with without even trying!
So actually it IS factually inaccurate to say 'the same package I already owned" and is misrepresenting things to newcomers who may be reading this. It may be that none of those features are things you use; it may be you do not like them; then you are free to express your opinion.
But there is a LOT more in tS7 than in tS6.6, and saying it is the same package is not opinion under free speech, but just plain incorrect.
If you want to use NURBS, well guess what, they are the same NURBS as tS6.6. But then so is that crop tool in Photoshopproillustratorgimp, most likely the same crop tool you've used for the last 4 versions of the program, the same font system you've used in the last 3 versions of WordOfficeStar and last 3 versions of your Operating System, but no-one starts saying "This is the same package I already bought!" because of that. I am not sure why we get that here.
I do get "Hey the player is so great I can't wait to see more tools moved over there, and I know they will be improved like SDS so they'll actually be better, and it will be great to have them in the new interface, I wish that had happened sooner". But just because we have not moved them into the new code yet is no worse than the crop tool in the art packages. It's just a tool in the old code. Does that make the upgrade a cheat, the same package you already owned, incomplete, falsely advertised?
I am more than happy to listen to constructive criticism - because I make it myself all the time. I am onto developers on the beta list with "This should be easier, that should be better, it'll be great to move more tools over to the Player, I want to be able to work almost totally in the player and never in the modeler, to do that I need this to happen, and this, and this".
Comments like "This needs improving" or "IT would be better if this was the case" are great! Comments like "I hate this" or "I don't like this" or "I never use this" are also welcomed. Those also give good feedback.
I do however find comments that are simply not true like "this is the same package" "I was charged three times as much" "this is false advertising" to be untrue, and unhelpful, and in fact damaging to everyone. You see, I know those are not true, but a newcomer here won't know that. "I never use the new tools, they are no good to me" is one thing. "There are no new tools" is quite another.
I think this is the essence behind Norm's posting. There are things being stated here that are not the case. And while our house is open to all who want to praise and criticize, who want to suggest changes, tell us what they don't like and how it could be better, there does have to be a line drawn in terms of keeping it accurate and constructively presented.
HTH,
Tom |
Post by Norm // Nov 9, 2006, 7:34am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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I am last person to suggest free speach be curtailed or removed from forums.
What I do advocate is fairness and balance. By suggesting that a user's reputation can be "adjusted" on the forums, I advocate free speech.
I personally am not a fan of embellishments. Personal irk if you will. They dilute the truth. Dilute = Distort = Deform. Information or deformation.
There is no denying the passion expressed here on forums. I suggest it is the method and manner that holds the balance. There is due reason for being cautious on not only what you say but how you say it. From what I read on the iNet, there are already legal precidents based not on the facts/truth of someone's expression, but rather flavor/method/manner used to express.
I just urge you folks to be caution is all. Imagine what the future will be like with lawyers searching the internet fishing for lawsuits. I paint a picture of myself on the internet. I try to be cautious my "picture" is not distorted. I urge everyone to be cautious as well. |
Post by Tiles // Nov 9, 2006, 7:46am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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End of useful discussion it seems. Well, at least we have tried :( |
Post by larsen // Nov 9, 2006, 7:48am
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larsen
Total Posts: 5
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Just a question, if you let me ask: don't you think that this diffused frustration (sorry if it's not the right word, my english is quite poor) in your customers could decrease with a better communication?
I believe that it would be much more interesting and productive if you (Tom) or other members of the Caligari Team could sometimes jump in and say "We have this dalay in the release but this is the reason" or "We have this bug but here's the way we're going to solve it". Being an informed part of the development process of tS7.5 could help us to be more patients and more constructive. You know well that tS7 is not the promised land but just some steps in that direction (at least, I hope so...) and that a good part of the critics in this thread need more attention.
Just my opinion. |
Post by TomG // Nov 9, 2006, 8:12am
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TomG
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Hi Larsen,
We already try to do that as much as is possible. We've actually been about 10 times more communicative in the last year than ever before :)
Of course there is a limit - we can't get into discussing individual bugs here, as we have the beta forums for that, and we have many many other tasks to undertake, so getting to that level of communication would consume too much time.
Where possible, I copy across bug notifications from here to the beta forums. Developers read the forums here too. Sometimes they answer directly. Sometimes I move answers from beta to here (eg to say a bug has been duplicated and in the list to be fixed). Sometimes things are just too busy for that to happen, and a bug may be noted but no reply ever seen on these public forums.
We limit discussing new features, like other software firms, as everything is always open to change, for better or worse. The policy on discussing features and release dates has been outlined before, and we stand by that.
With the Captain's Blog we have shared more about upcoming features than in previous releases, and we do indeed try and keep people informed about why things are the way they are (huge discussion here and elsewhere on "why the bridge") and on the direction we are going, and why we are going there.
Some issues are a matter of professionalism. Some issues we have are nothing to do with us or our software, but we aren't going to pass on that news and appear to "blame cast". Then when it is internal and to do with our development, the delays are not as simple as something we can post publically - describing it would mean giving away details only open to beta testers under NDA. And without that, then the reason for delay is always "because new features are being added, and existing features are being debugged" - and a delay just means we have more to add, or more bugs to squash.
And that sort of message is too general to be helpful :) But specifics require NDA.
So, we'll keep working on our communications and keep working to improve them. In the end though, some people just don't like what they hear, for instance about the bridge. And while disappointing, we knew that would be the case when we took this direction. We knew it would displease some people, and they would never accept our logic and reasoning for taking that approach.
An unfortunate fact of software development, whatever direction you choose, it will always be the wrong direction for some. We try of course to make it the right direction for as many as possible, but for those who find it the wrong direction, no amount of communication will alter their feelings.
So, we'll keep doing the best we can, and keep looking to improve our communications, just as we also keep on improving our software, our services, and everything else :)
Meantime, we hope criticism can be constructive, intended to allow Caligari to improve, and newcomers to make informed decisions. That is good, positive and fair. However, it is possible to present information in a way that will do nothing to help us improve the software, and which will do nothing but be destructive to Caligari, which will just drive people away, reduce sales, reduce money for the dev team, and so in the end not get improvements to the software at all. Hence my last post on what people say and how they say it makes all the difference to an informed decision for newcomers, and a misinformed decision for newcomers.
The forums here have always been open to constructive criticism, requests for change and improvements, etc, and will stay that way. We do however ask people to look at what they say and how they say it - just as we do too in our replies :)
Ask the developers if all I ever do is sing the praises of tS7 and say how perfect it is ;) I fully aim for the product to improve and keep improving, both as a user, as well as a Caligari employee for the good of the company, and as a Caligari employee for the good of our users and community. I have three reasons to want to see everything improved, and welcome feedback that helps that happen!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by larsen // Nov 9, 2006, 8:54am
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larsen
Total Posts: 5
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Can I reply?
I've seen a lot of time that you or Mr Ormandy or other Caligary members have taken Luxology Modo as an example of a new direction in the 3D software world. I own Modo since ver. 102 and I really agree with all of you and not only about the software itself. Luxology has developed a new way to communicate with their customers that is absolutely fantastic. Mr. Brad Peebler comes very often in the forums and answers a lot of question with indepht details. When modo 201 was delayed he created a thread to tell why that happens and created a weekly thread (still active!) to show new functions, new tools with videos, and describe the progression of the development.
This long story just to say that I would like to see here too this kind of communication. Captain blog is a good step in this direction but it should be updated more frequently and with more details just to have a good look to where tS7.5 is going.
I am one of those who think that tS7 has taken the right way and I'm extremely satisfied with some new features it has introduced (vray, player, link editor, even if I'm still not good enough to use it at its best) but I see also some missing functions and tools, expecially in the player side which I hope will be includend in the 7.5 upgrade.
Sorry for this long post. |
Post by TomG // Nov 9, 2006, 9:05am
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TomG
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Sure can reply, and that's a pretty short post compared to mine ;)
We'll keep looking into improving communications as much as is possible of course, at least maintaining what we have, along with seeing if we could do more.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Norm // Nov 9, 2006, 9:54am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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My proTeam just expired in October. I wanted to beta test 7.5 - actually, the chance to beta test what's on the horizon and be able to give feedback during the development process was one of the main reasons I signed up. I guess I was misinformed.
I tend to agree with you John. If you were to ask Roman how often I ask that we release ts7.5 to proTeam. He knows every release to beta team I ask if we can please let proTeam have a look now.
Contact me in private John. Thanks in advance. |
Post by Garion // Nov 9, 2006, 11:02am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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Ok, here we go again..... sorry but my point is not difficult to understand, but I fear that I am not being understood, its the medium of text and I cant convey accuratly what I am trying to say.
When TS 7 was released and I installed it I could not model or do much of anything in 'the TS7 New architecture bit'.
This is the bit that Caligari Employees have stated is THE actual TS7 part.
I had and still do have to use the TS6.6 part because there were/are no modelling tools in the TS 7 side.
I already had and still do have TS6.6 installed and when Installed TS 7, I installed the 'New architecture part ALONG with another copy of TS6.6.
So I now in effect had TS7 new architecture which was very pretty but ultimately not much use and I was doing ALL my modelling work on the copy of TS6.6 that came bundled with it and connected by the bridge, my previous copy of TS66 was sitting in another directory so I had in effect two copies installed.
To top it off, the Upgrade price was triple or more than the upgrade price of the previous version for nothing more than a pretty face and another copy of TS66 an application I already had.
It has been said that the New code is TS7 and the old Code is TS66 so what we have is a hybrid app with all the tools we need in the old version and eye candy and promises in the new.
Was that worth the triple upgrade price????
No, not in my book at least not at time of launch.
TS7 when it is eventually released maybe a damn fine application, this is why I am waiting to see what is included in version 7.5.
:
So actually it IS factually inaccurate to say 'the same package I already owned" and is misrepresenting things to newcomers who may be reading this. It may be that none of those features are things you use; it may be you do not like them; then you are free to express your opinion.
I am not saying that the TS7 part is the same as the package that I already own. The TS7 part (on release offered no real modelling tools) I am saying that the copy of TS66 that came bundled with it to make it look like a complete app is the same as the one I already own.
I could just as well be using my original version of TS66.
With TS 7 being unfinished and us having to use the old TS6.6 side I am saying that for bang per buck its not worth it.
We did not install one application when we installed TS7 we install two possible three. The minor, but maybe soon to Uber TS7 part, a repeat helping of TS66 and a software bridge..
Caligari have stated that they could not get the tools into TS7 side so they built a bridge to the older version.
Now that in my book is TS6.7 NOT TS7.
:
I do however find comments that are simply not true like "this is the same package" "I was charged three times as much" "this is false advertising" to be untrue, and unhelpful, and in fact damaging to everyone. You see, I know those are not true, but a newcomer here won't know that. "I never use the new tools, they are no good to me" is one thing. "There are no new tools" is quite another.
Once again I am not saying the TS7 side is the same I am saying that the bundled TS6.6 side is the same. Its a hybrid application the TS7 part is substantially deficient so we have to use the Old App that a lot of us already have and as reports have shown its flaky at best.
What you are doing is taking TS7 as it stands with the bolted on TS 66 as a single application.
We know that this is not the case as a bridge had to be built to like the Two apps New to old.
I am not an enemy of Caligari, but I am not a Sycophant either.
I have read every post that I have posted and every reply form Caligari and I stand by all that I have said.
When I upgrade my other apps I spend a lot less than I did when I bought my first full version. But in this case the price was more than triple any upgrade price I have paid for Truespace in the past for substantially less. I don’t count promises as a feature when considering an upgrade.
As I also stated to balance out the Positives and negatives, Caligari have given two free upgrades so far but its not really added much to the TS7 side yet..
Now that is a little step in the right direction, but TS7.5 which appears to be a major leap is only going to be free for those of us who pre-ordered, so a lot of people are going to have more expense to get the tools they should have got in the TS7 side in the first place.
Hey Norm
As far as internet lawyers combing the forums for possibly phat lewt court cases, I personally do not live in a society that is oppressed by such things. I am Scottish and live in Scotland and we are not that petty or predatory yet.
However I do have a Kilt and claymore and hairy beard... sooooo any lawyer coming near me would probably wet himself.:D
The internet is worldwide and I am not much feart of US lawyers. :banana:
So to recap.. TS 7 will probably be Sooper, but what we have IS not TS7 its TS6.7
Upgrades should never cost humungous amounts more cash than competing full apps.
The market has changed, a lot of Loyal Truespace users are hacked off for a variety of reasons, how Caligari decides to handle this will be critical to its future.
But that’s is up to Caligari, I wish you good fortune.
Personally I would like to be using and recommending Truespace for years to come, but at the moment the Highest I would recommend is Truespace 66.
Once again I implore everyone to keep this debate civil and not to quote people out of context. The waters are being muddied to much as it is :rolleyes:
Cheers
Garion |
Post by KeithC // Nov 9, 2006, 11:09am
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KeithC
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Well, look at it this way Garion; at least you're still "on a distinguished road";) They haven't assassinated your character, yet. |
Post by splinters // Nov 9, 2006, 11:20am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I had and still do have to use the TS6.6 part because there were/are no modelling tools in the TS 7 side.
I'm pretty sure that this is what Tom was referring to Garion. A new user visiting the forum would read this and, if he took you on your word, would think that there were/are no modelling tools in tS7 side.
This is not strictly true-there are indeed modelling tools just not in the same format as the model side nor are there as many. However, more and more are being ported over.
Still, it is a bit of a sweeping statement. I appreciate, as you said, that text is not the best way to convey your thoughts, but I can only imagine you meant; no modelling tools that you personally find useful...;) |
Post by Matski007 // Nov 9, 2006, 11:44am
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Matski007
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Interesting debate here, im not sure where I stand, I have even used the Player side once in TS7 because to be honest I dont know how it benefits me yet, Also I must be retarded because I cant seem to find anything that lets me Render or even how to add primitives and such. It comes out pretty blank whenever I click it really? If anyone would be able to PM me some info I would appreciate it.
I guess I havent had many complaints about what I have payed for because I also got VRay when I bought it which is a major difference to me, and also the ability to have HDRI is a massive Boon to me and is something I use in almost every Render. This app is expensive, at least in my pocket (poor little Student) but in comparison to many other apps its relatively cheap for I consider to be the best parts of quite a few Industry Apps |
Post by Garion // Nov 9, 2006, 11:44am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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This is not strictly true-there are indeed modelling tools just not in the same format as the model side nor are there as many. However, more and more are being ported over.
Hi Splinters
I am speaking from the point of view of someone who has upgraded their Caligari products from previous versions. My comments dont really apply to New users as TS7 would be their first Full version of Truespace. I would hope that in any case any prospective customer would read ALL the availible information about the application before making their own mind up.
I know I sound like a parrot and tightfisted Scot, but I stand by what I have said in regards to the upgrade.
The rise in price of Truespace over the price of competing applications has probably driven off more new customers than anything I or others have written, but that is just pure speculation.
I am not a front man for Caligari, I am one of their most, if not of the most, important assets. I am the repeat customer who comes and buys more each time there is an upgrade, along with the courses and supports them with referals and hard cash.
If Caligari decide to adopt the positon that your of bad character if you are not 100% with us and brush off any concerns with misquotes and character assissnation, then I cant see anyone wanting to have any part of them or Truespace.
Once again I am not saying that this is the case, but its begining to look a bit dicky to me.
My posts have always been about the upgrade, the price and the fact that for most of the work we do we still have to use the old application that we upgraded from and had to pay for again to get any meaningfull work done.
And this is the TRUTH of it and I am not the only one that is commenting on it.
I am happy to wait for version 7.5... and I hope it lives up to expectations. A few more screenshots and feature lists would be more welcome and maybe a preamble on the new features and how they work to whet the appetite.
Cheers :D
Garion |
Post by splinters // Nov 9, 2006, 11:50am
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splinters
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You cannot render from player view in the traditional sense but you can use the icon in the top toolbar to render the player view which, depending on your hardware, can look pretty good-just check out some of Parva's stuff.
As for primitives in 7.11, here is a simple tip.
Make sure you are in default view and can see the object library in the stack on right hand side. I created a new library here and called it geometry (primitives is already there and has SDS object in it).
Now use model side of tS7 to place primitives (cube etc.) in the main window the old fashioned way. For each object you place in the window, R-click in the stack library and insert the object renaming as necessary.
Do this for all the primitives.
Now when you are in player view you can drag primitives into the player window and mess around with them. R-click an object to bring up the PE toolbar...you know the one that you model with (sorry Garion, couldn't resist;) )
Hope that gets you started-only needs to be done once...:D |
Post by splinters // Nov 9, 2006, 11:56am
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Garion, I have no gripe with what you say and for the most part I agree with you. I am no front man for Caligari and the only reason I am less vocal (specific) is the fact that I do occasional work for them..oh, and that NDA I signed.;)
I am not questioning the thread or peoples right to air their views but I found your statement startling. Wether you are new user or old-you can call up familiar icons in player side that are also in model side; sweep, bevel, PE, loop and more. I just think to say there are no model tools in tS7 was misleading.
We have conversed candidly and amicably in the past. I hope it will remain that way...:D |
Post by Garion // Nov 9, 2006, 12:07pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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Splinters:
In no way were my comments in my previous post aimed at you or any other single individual.
I would never ever, do that and believe that constructive, objective debate is the most civilised way to iron out all disagreements.
I know that you are a beta tester and work a bit for caligari and I can see how my comments may have come across badly..
It was not my intent and for that I apologies.
Let the debate continue in the spirit of friendship and camaradiere that as Truespace users we should all share.
Even a grumpy old git like me :D
Cheers
Garion |
Post by splinters // Nov 9, 2006, 12:11pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No apology necessary young man...:D
But I applaud your final comments...that is what the forum needs (not the grumpy old man bit:D ). |
Post by Matski007 // Nov 10, 2006, 1:06am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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Would I be right in assuming that soon you will be able to add primites in the same way as you would in the model side because I prefer to be able to edit amount of faces and changes sizes etc in the way that is made available in the modelling side |
Post by Bodwad // Nov 10, 2006, 1:16am
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Bodwad
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My problem with it is simple, Truespace 6.6 was easy to use and Truespace 7 isnt. Too many things going on, too many windows open and I have yet to find a use for the player window. I hope 7.5 will fix these things but until then I feel that I have no choice but to wait.
The learning curve was too steep for a simpleton like me :p |
Post by splinters // Nov 10, 2006, 2:18am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Would I be right in assuming that soon you will be able to add primites in the same way as you would in the model side because I prefer to be able to edit amount of faces and changes sizes etc in the way that is made available in the modelling side
Assume away Matski, I am not at liberty to say either way...;)
But you could try this excellent little invention;
http://forums1.caligari.com/trueSpace/showthread.php?t=1602 |
Post by Alien // Nov 10, 2006, 12:55pm
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Alien
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7) To tSnet, TS7 bring a new problem.. because now you need powerfulls pc to run ts7... 1g memory for example on any workstation.. Thats why i cant buy TSnet..
Once everything's been moved to the Player side & you don't need the bridge or Modeler, tS's memory requirement should [in theory] be less than it is now.
i wont to know a clear image about Truespace..
Like.. The player whas gonna be the old model.. with the same tools, the same plugins.. the same at all but.. with more performance and visual effects.. Thats what i need to here..
Yes. :)
it may be less confusing if 'model' side was called something like (ts6.6 ) 'compatibility mode'...and player called 'standard mode'
I agree.
why the heck are images turned into RsImg..that's nuts..that should be an internal thing..why should images have some strange extension that makes them un-useable anywhere but in ts7..???..
I have to admit that this 1 baffles me as well.
Our big mistake here was calling it the Player. Player and Modeler were indeed very bad names to have chosen, as they gave entirely the wrong impression.
Damn, my understatement detector just exploded! :p |
Post by prodigy // Nov 10, 2006, 2:48pm
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prodigy
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I'm pretty sure that this is what Tom was referring to Garion. A new user visiting the forum would read this and, if he took you on your word, would think that there were/are no modelling tools in tS7 side.
This is not strictly true-there are indeed modelling tools just not in the same format as the model side nor are there as many. However, more and more are being ported over.
Still, it is a bit of a sweeping statement. I appreciate, as you said, that text is not the best way to convey your thoughts, but I can only imagine you meant; no modelling tools that you personally find useful...;)
Splinter... I wont to see a video from somebody using TS7.11 and model a completly house with texture.. with walls windows and anything like a real house and with details not a box ONLY over the new TS7 (player)... Thats all... O yes.. btw.. render Without any bridge with lightworks or vray. without anything from the TS6.6 side..
When i see that.. i must admit the new TS7 (player) rules...
But i dont understand why the caligari team wont put in our minds the player is amazing... because at the moment its not.. ITs preaty?? yes.. but not usesfull at ALL because have
See my point.. if you model a nurbs.. and you go to the model.. the nurb patch be destroyed.. and you cant use on player again.. and thats its a problem over the new tools.. you uderstand?? |
Post by Methusela // Nov 10, 2006, 4:35pm
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Methusela
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Dear me, I've missed out on all of the "Player" side experiences you've all mentioned because my video card can't handle running it. It's an nVidia Geforce 5200XT AGP. It's simply awful, there's no other way to say it. The worst part is I shelled out $300 for a Geforce 7900 a few months ago, but my PSU is only 250 watts and my motherboard can only go up to 300 watts total. The 7900 requires a 350 watt PSU. So I sent it back. ;_; Don't ever buy a not-customized-on-the-internet computer, as you will be screwed over! Does anyone have any recommendations as to how I can acheive use of the "Player" side?
As for this debate malarkey, I can see both sides of the argument. The current versions of TS7 were released mostly to keep us kind of tided over until the full functionality could be implemented, which I don't doubt will happen in the near future. I can see where it'd be very difficult to maintain customer interest with such a small development task force, which is why I'd recommend something of a step-by-step progress report of sorts. There's a great piece of software online called mantis, here's an example in action for a game mod:
http://mantis.team-gizka.org/my_view_page.php
And here's their homepage:
http://www.mantisbt.org/
I think it'd be really cool if Caligari adopted something like this to keep the interested customers up to date on all feature implementations and bug ironings. It'd probably be alot easier on poor Tom G if you did that rather than have him write novel-sized responses on the forums. XD
Also, I agree that we should get to see a few renders in the latest Vray versions as they come out.
Thanks for reading, and soldier on, team Caligari! |
Post by Asem // Nov 11, 2006, 12:33am
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Asem
Total Posts: 255
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You might want to check out Ati's cards as they usually have a good watt range and so far I have no problems. My card can take about 500,000 polygons with textures probably at a rate of 20FPS which isn't that bad with completely high player setting on (it does support PS 2.0).
Check out the Radeon 9700 (This is basicaly the one I have) or the x800 series (which should be able to do more). There is really no need to only think nvidia.
On the side I was wondering at some point Caligari was going to do an update of the player itself to support D3d10 with PS4.0, Geo pipline etc. I would think that would boost the polygon count significantely although it should anyway as there is a brand new card 8800 nvidia series cards that is finally a D3D10 card. |
Post by splinters // Nov 11, 2006, 2:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Splinter... I wont to see a video from somebody using TS7.11 and model a completly house with texture.. with walls windows and anything like a real house and with details not a box ONLY over the new TS7 (player)... Thats all... O yes.. btw.. render Without any bridge with lightworks or vray. without anything from the TS6.6 side..
When i see that.. i must admit the new TS7 (player) rules...
Prodigy, I never said you could do all that but I think we are agreed that saying there are no modelling tools in player is incorrect.
Having said that 7.5 should have many more features and I have seen stuff created completely in player side...if you are expecting all the features of model side...well...:rolleyes: |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 4:13am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Prodigy, I never said you could do all that but I think we are agreed that saying there are no modelling tools in player is incorrect.
Having said that 7.5 should have many more features and I have seen stuff created completely in player side...if you are expecting all the features of model side...well...:rolleyes:
NONO.. its true.. are modeling tools on the PLayer side.. most better than the model side.. I KNOW.. and ITS Totally true.. The problem still the incompatibility bethween model and player.. and that make problems and you must choise one side to work.. i still prefer the model mode because if you work on the player.. you must go to the model to render and texturize..If i work only on the model.. i have lot of stuffs and i dont have more problems. nothing else..
I expect the merge of 2 sides on 1 side to model.. and render.. navigate. texturize.. all.. Like the model.. with the player speed and visual effects.. Thats be the best.. But how i know that spend time.. my first priority are the bugs.. |
Post by Tiles // Nov 11, 2006, 4:23am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I hope i am allowed to reply.
... saying there are no modelling tools in player is incorrect.
Indeed. There are a few. The problem with this statement though is the fact that it sounds like the Player is the main place to be in TS7. But there are not enough tools there to make the player really useful to work with.
So where do you model? In Modeler.
Where do you texture? In Modeler.
Where do you animate? In Modeler.
Where do you render from? You render from the Modeler.
What is the Modeler? It's the TS 6.6 core with some improvements. The old architecture.
What can you do in Player? Nearly nothing at the moment compared to what you need to model, texture, animate and render the stuff. At least not for me. And it seems that i am not the only one with this opinion.
And that's the point. We feel like there are no tools in Player. We feel like we work with TS 6.6 in another, more complicated enviroment. It makes me even feel like TS 6.6 is the better place to be at the moment. And i am in fact back to TS 6.6. Haven't touched TS 7 since a while. Will wait for 7.5 before i touch it again.
Anyway. We all know that the TS7 architecture is the future and is not finished yet. Let's have a look what comes with TS 7.5. Should make an big improvement. And then let's discuss again :) |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 4:28am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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About Graphic cards. can i tell..
First you must know all about nvidia Graphics.. x200 x500 are a turttle.. be a 5200 6200.. i dont recomends you any of both GC..
yes.. the 6200 its much better than the 5200.. but its not good at all..
for example the 5900 or 5950 its much better than the 6200 ... try to find higher values that mark a big diference...
I can tell, its better get more money and buy a 6600 or better... that work very very good on player side and you can get over AGP and PCIX too
I recomend that.. Nvidia.. i think its better than ati.. but thats other thread.. :D
Look the new GFORCE 8800.. DX 10... wow thats a grafic cards.. here in uruguay cost 800$ 8( |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 4:30am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I hope i am allowed to reply.
Indeed. There are a few. The problem with this statement though is the fact that it sounds like the Player is the main place to be in TS7. But there are not enough tools there to make the player really useful to work with.
So where do you model? In Modeler.
Where do you texture? In Modeler.
Where do you animate? In Modeler.
Where do you render from? You render from the Modeler.
What is the Modeler? It's the TS 6.6 core with some improvements. The old architecture.
What can you do in Player? Nearly nothing at the moment compared to what you need to model, texture, animate and render the stuff. At least not for me. And it seems that i am not the only one with this opinion.
And that's the point. We feel like there are no tools in Player. We feel like we work with TS 6.6 in another, more complicated enviroment. It makes me even feel like TS 6.6 is the better place to be at the moment. And i am in fact back to TS 6.6. Haven't touched TS 7 since a while. Will wait for 7.5 before i touch it again.
Anyway. We all know that the TS7 architecture is the future and is not finished yet. Let's have a look what comes with TS 7.5. Should make an big improvement. And then let's discuss again :)
TOTALLY AGREE...
BUT A PLUS..If you work with VRAY like me. you dont touch anymore the TS6.6 .. thats happend in my case.. i know the ts6.6 its more friendly.. more stable.. less buggie but the VRAY PULLS ME TO THE TS7.11 and i dont back again...
Because that i wont the bugs be fixed.. and i be calmed... |
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