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tS7, future and some thoughts
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS7, future and some thoughts // Roundtable
Post by trueBlue // Nov 11, 2006, 4:31am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Caligari News:
(http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR)http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR (http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR) |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 4:45am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Caligari News:
(http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR)http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR (http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/press_releasenew.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR)
March 8, 2005 Caligari Announces First Public Demo of trueSpace7 (i never seen a TS7 demo)
October 26th, 2006 Caligari Announces Real-Time 3D Positional Voice Over IP (?????? what ???????)
"Enhanced rendering capabilities
New rendering features in trueSpace7.5 will include much anticipated hair and fur shaders. Other new V-Ray features will include solid animation support, such as high quality motion blur, depth of field, post processing, anisotropic reflections, true displacement mapping and more. Users can also expect improvements in the Lightworks rendering tools too."
I HOPE thats be true.... |
Post by Garion // Nov 11, 2006, 5:05am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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The following is a list of quotes in chronological order regarding my comments on the modelling tools contained in The Player.
I have noticed that my :
'There are no modelling tools in Player' quote/mis-quote has gained a foothold and is being quoted out of context.
As others have said one or two tools do not a 3D modeller make and at this time there is no way that The Player(TS7) can be said to be a 3D modeller.
It is a more than a bit pedantic to quote out of context the one line that supports your view and to ignore that quotes place in the discussion as a whole.
As can be seen when the debate is taken as a whole and in the context of the thread, I was alluding to the fact that most people will have to work in the TS6.6 part to do any serious meaningful work.
Once again this post is just to clarify my position and put the quote back into its proper context and place in the discussion.
Once again, this is not aimed at any particular individual, but rather the community as a whole, to help those that may have become confused by the muddied waters in which we now swim.
It is not my intention to offend anyone, but as a former Police Officer (sigh I was young back then :D ) I feel it is important not to get hung up on One misplaced quote and make it the lynchpin of future debate as this Is not my ONLY gripe with Truespace 7.
It is my earnest hope that will clear up the 'No modelling tools in TS7' issue and place the quote in its proper perspective.
Cheers Garion
Modeler or TS66 as its better known is the BULK of TS 7 with the player gimmick being the new eye candy. At least until the tools any normal person would expect to be implimented in a modern 3D application, are in fact implimented..
As the modeling tools are all in TS66 at this moment in time, what exactly was I charged a 3 x price hike for?
Yet on release we discovered that most if not all the modelling would be done in the OLD code base application that we already owned, so really the Player side was almost usless.
TomG said that the Player IS TS7 and we all know now that TS7 is still a work in progress with none of the actual tools we need to Use daily implimened in the TS7 part yet This is apparently going to hold true for TS7.5 as well. So what we bought as TS7 was really TS6.6 with a pretty face.
What we bought was TS 6.7 or 6.8, It can'y be TS7 as none of the tools we actualy need are in TS7, they are in teh bolted on TS6.6.
TS7 is a fraction of what it’s supposed to be yet cost 3 times as much.
When TS 7 was released and I installed it I could not model or do much of anything in 'the TS7 New architecture bit'.
I had and still do have to use the TS6.6 part because there were/are no modelling tools in the TS 7 side.
So I now in effect had TS7 new architecture which was very pretty but ultimately not much use and I was doing ALL my modelling work on the copy of TS6.6 that came bundled with it and connected by the bridge, my previous copy of TS66 was sitting in another directory so I had in effect two copies installed.
I am not saying that the TS7 part is the same as the package that I already own. The TS7 part (on release offered no real modelling tools) I am saying that the copy of TS66 that came bundled with it to make it look like a complete app is the same as the one I already own.
I could just as well be using my original version of TS66. |
Post by splinters // Nov 11, 2006, 9:52am
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splinters
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That line in the press release is a bit misleading as it refers to the first public demonstration of tS7, but only so far as the term 'demo' has taken on a meaning all of its own nowadays. If it had said a trial version then it would have been untrue but I believe they did demonstrate it publically.
And that is not being pedantic...;) |
Post by Methusela // Nov 11, 2006, 10:21am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Is this card good for handling the "player" side?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2201323&CatId=318
It's an nVidia (I like to stick with them because TS is apparently supposed to run better on their cards) XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / Dual DVI / HDTV / Video Card
Does this card have pixelshader support?
I don't mean to be hijacking this thread or anything, just want to get up to speed with what everyone's saying here. |
Post by Steinie // Nov 11, 2006, 10:23am
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Steinie
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When I decided to upgrade from TS 4.3 I had two choices TS 6.6 or TS 7. For me the choice was clear and I went the TS 7.0 route and I have no regrets. TS 7 is an amazing version that is not finished. I knew ahead of time that I would end up paying $50 more to get TS 7.5 (back then 7.1 and renamed 7.5) In my case it allowed me to get into V-Ray, real time rendering, normal mapping, HDRI to name a few. It is definitely going through growing pains but for a new user or a user of an older version 5 back this is a no brainer. There is stuff there that I don't care for like LE but guess what, I have a funny feeling that in the future I might want it there....
I think the biggest complaints are the TS 6.5 users and what they got for the upgrade. They may not be complaining after 7.5 so we'll see.
Any new user out there reading all this and wondering if you should get this program....YES!!! There is SO much you can do and the future just looks awesome.
Caligari IS talking to us more and I appreciate that. Sometimes it sounds like their doing more justifying then listening and that part I don't like. Some users want to see their main bugs get squashed and my feeling is if they earn money using TS by all means at least let them know. Tom G and gang just doesn't have time to keep us all informed with all our problems.
As far as a feature list, if you KNOW it's going to be included why can't you tell us? My gosh no harm there. Somebody asked if hair will be included. If it's positively yes then answer the guy. Just put out a list of known features that will definately be included. As an example we KNOW that 7.5 will have a new bone system. Don't spoon feed us if you know it will be included. Just my thought on this and really not a complaint by me.
There is something that your not doing and it is more an observation by me. If there is a serious complaint about a purchase why not deal with that person in private one on one and take care of them. Work out a deal with them so your both satisfied. ("We know your not satisfied so what will it take to make you happy?) I would think you would earn a customer for life by doing that.
I was a Manager for many many years. When I took over a Store the first thing I did was look at items left around the cash register....why? because no one wants to wait in line. The people just left. The clues were there if you know where to look. So I added more registers and retrained the Cashiers. You want TS to grow, start listening and act on the problems. This forum is showing you the clues. |
Post by Paul Boland // Nov 11, 2006, 10:26am
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Paul Boland
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This topic has certainly grown since I was last here. I haven't read all the posts, but most of them. To me, TrueSpace 7 seems to be a transition period in the softwares life, moving from the old modeller coding to the new player coding. I still have concerns about this move but till I actually get to play around with TrueSpace 7, I can't really comment on players potential.
I've said so before, that I have cash saved safely to make the move over from TrueSpace 5 to 7.5 when it ships. I'm very impressed with what 7.5 has to offer so I hope it lives up to expectations.
Or should I play it safe and wait and see what TrueSpace 8 has to offer...? |
Post by splinters // Nov 11, 2006, 10:35am
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splinters
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Or should I play it safe and wait and see what TrueSpace 8 has to offer...?
Then you are a patient man...:) |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 11:28am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Is this card good for handling the "player" side?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2201323&CatId=318
It's an nVidia (I like to stick with them because TS is apparently supposed to run better on their cards) XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / Dual DVI / HDTV / Video Card
Does this card have pixelshader support?
I don't mean to be hijacking this thread or anything, just want to get up to speed with what everyone's saying here.
BE SURE OF THAT... and that VGA runs better than the mine..
ARe pixel shader 2.0 and yes.. its a very very good vga...
You see the diference when you play doom3.. with 5200 you cant play anithing.. with that you can play in full quality.. be sure of that..
Best Regards.. |
Post by Alien // Nov 11, 2006, 12:49pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Dear me, I've missed out on all of the "Player" side experiences you've all mentioned because my video card can't handle running it. It's an nVidia Geforce 5200XT AGP. It's simply awful, there's no other way to say it.
From everything I've heard, the whole 5xxx series was a flop.
The worst part is I shelled out $300 for a Geforce 7900 a few months ago, but my PSU is only 250 watts
Only 250w? Yikes!
and my motherboard can only go up to 300 watts total.
Wait-a-sec, what? I've never heard of motherboards having a maximum limit for the power rating of the PSU they're connected to. A maximum amount of power that can be fed through the fan ouputs? Sure. A maximum amount of power they can output through the PCI/AGP slots? Absolutely. You sure you haven't gotten something mixed up somewhere along the line? Just because a PSU can supply X number of watts, doesn't mean that's what it's putting out all the time. I'm pretty sure all PC PSUs these days [& for a few years now] are switch-mode power supplies, which means they provide as much as is needed [upto the PSU's own limit].
The 7900 requires a 350 watt PSU.
Personally, I wouldn't recommend anything below 400-450W for a modern PC, even if it's a fairly low end system, as a higher rating will give you a bit of "breathing room" should you wish to upgrade other parts of the system.
Let me use my system as an example:
Ultra X-Connect 500W PSU
Abit AN7 motherboard
Athlon XP3200+
Radeon X800 GTO 256MB
Creative SB Audigy 1
10/100 network card
2 HDDs - 1 WD 40GB IDE, 1 Samsung 80GB SATA
Liteon DVDRW
Digi-doc 5 [monitors fans & voltages, & can turn fans on or off if you want it to]
2x 120mm case fans
Have a guess how much wattage that lot uses in total.....
If you guessed anything over 200w you were way off - I had to run Prime95 in torture-test mode just to get it to 183w! [using 1 of those power meters that plugs in between the mains socket & the device you want to measure]. I suppose it might use a little more if I used something that stressed the graphics card, rather than the CPU, but I doubt it would be a huge difference. At idle [a bunch of stuff loaded, but nothing really doing much, except Winamp playing some MP3s] it hovers between 165 & 170w.
So why have I got a 500w PSU?:
1. Extra capacity to cater to future upgrades.
2. Whilst the total wattage rating of a PSU is important, what really matters is how much a PSU can put out on the different lines [mostly 5v & 12v, but also to an extent 3.3v].
So I sent it back. ;_; Don't ever buy a not-customized-on-the-internet computer, as you will be screwed over!
That's 1 of the benefits of building your own, you get to pick & choose every part, & can make allowances for future upgrades when doing so.
Does anyone have any recommendations as to how I can acheive use of the "Player" side?
If you go ATI, don't get anything below an X800 GTO [for the X8xx series GTO is better than GT]. That's what I have, & it handles the Player nicely. Also, avoid the X1300s, as they're the bottom-of-the-range of ATI's current generation. I'm not sure what to think of the X1600s. You should be able to get some of the lesser X19xx cards for a fairly decent price. If you need an AGP card, a couple of ATI's partner companies have released X19xx models for AGP. IIRC, they were X1950 Pro cards. 1 of the companies is GeCube, I think another might be Connect3D.
You might want to check out Ati's cards as they usually have a good watt range and so far I have no problems. My card can take about 500,000 polygons with textures probably at a rate of 20FPS which isn't that bad with completely high player setting on (it does support PS 2.0).
Check out the Radeon 9700 (This is basicaly the one I have) or the x800 series (which should be able to do more). There is really no need to only think nvidia.
Absolutely, though I doubt he'd find a 9700 anywhere [except maybe ebay :D]. As I said, my X800 GTO handles the player nicely. Like your 9700, my X800 is also a DX 9.0 card [not 9.0c, only ATI cards that have 9.0c are the X1xxx series], however the advantage the X800 has over your 9700 & my old 9600 Pro is that it has PS 2.0b, which does provide a visible difference.
Is this card good for handling the "player" side?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2201323&CatId=318
It's an nVidia (I like to stick with them because TS is apparently supposed to run better on their cards) XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / Dual DVI / HDTV / Video Card
If you want to "slum-it" it with Nvidia, I guess it's ok. :p ;) [me, biased? never! :D]
Does this card have pixelshader support?
Yup, 3.0. |
Post by splinters // Nov 11, 2006, 1:57pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have Ati 9800 Pro 256 mb and it runs absolutely fine but no shadow filtering is available.
It was Nvidia who had all the trouble with their drivers in tS, ATi have always been rock solid but a few glitches were introduced in Cat 6.9's
Get the 6.10's if you have Ati and you won't have a problem...:) |
Post by Alien // Nov 11, 2006, 2:21pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I have Ati 9800 Pro 256 mb and it runs absolutely fine but no shadow filtering is available.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif Well, whatever the reason, it looks better now than it did with my 9600 Pro. :)
It was Nvidia who had all the trouble with their drivers in tS, ATi have always been rock solid but a few glitches were introduced in Cat 6.9's
Get the 6.10's if you have Ati and you won't have a problem...:)
I'm still on 6.6. IIRC, ATI actually say on their site that you should only update your drivers if you're having probs with your current drivers. I wish they'd update Hydravision though, as that could definitely do with a bit of improvement! |
Post by Methusela // Nov 11, 2006, 3:17pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Wait-a-sec, what? I've never heard of motherboards having a maximum limit for the power rating of the PSU they're connected to. A maximum amount of power that can be fed through the fan ouputs? Sure. A maximum amount of power they can output through the PCI/AGP slots? Absolutely. You sure you haven't gotten something mixed up somewhere along the line? Just because a PSU can supply X number of watts, doesn't mean that's what it's putting out all the time. I'm pretty sure all PC PSUs these days [& for a few years now] are switch-mode power supplies, which means they provide as much as is needed (up to the PSU's own limit).
I had a chat online with one of the HP tech support people and they told me that my circuits would melt or something to that effect if I went about 300w *Shrug*
If anyone's interested, it's an HP m1160n Media Centre PC. About two years old if my memory serves me. |
Post by GraySho // Nov 12, 2006, 5:57am
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GraySho
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I had a chat online with one of the HP tech support people and they told me that my circuits would melt or something to that effect if I went about 300w *Shrug*
Wow, that is impressive. I wonder how much it needs to get employed by HP as tech support. You could have 100kW PSU, and it wouldn't fry your circuits, because the motherboard just draws as much power as it needs, not what the PSU is able to supply. |
Post by parva // Nov 12, 2006, 7:15am
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parva
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Wow, that is impressive. I wonder how much it needs to get employed by HP as tech support. You could have 100kW PSU, and it wouldn't fry your circuits, because the motherboard just draws as much power as it needs, not what the PSU is able to supply.
:D hehe, indeed. |
Post by Michael // Nov 12, 2006, 7:36am
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Michael
Total Posts: 37
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Wow, everybody ON TOPIC here :D ;) |
Post by JPSofCA // Nov 12, 2006, 7:42am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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Wow, everybody ON TOPIC here :D ;)
I prefer a "sharp" cheddar. |
Post by Alien // Nov 12, 2006, 8:32am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I had a chat online with one of the HP tech support people and they told me that my circuits would melt or something to that effect if I went about 300w *Shrug*
It never fails to amaze me how someone who's paid for [supposedly] knowing what they're talking about can be so utterly clueless!
Wow, everybody ON TOPIC here :D ;)
I'd rather have a Snickers. ;)
I prefer a "sharp" cheddar.
Washed down with some Tesco Value orange juice. Mmmm... strong cheese & orange juice.... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/drool.gif |
Post by Methusela // Nov 12, 2006, 1:33pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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It would seem that I've been had. No matter though, I've ordered card from the link and a 300w psu. I might finally get to play games from the past two years!
And this is mostly relevant. I've been unable to use the TS7 player side at all with my current video card, so that's why I brought it up.
But since we're already here, I'll take some extra sharp cheddar, thanks. :D |
Post by Alien // Nov 12, 2006, 2:22pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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It would seem that I've been had. No matter though, I've ordered card from the link and a 300w psu. I might finally get to play games from the past two years!
Why'd you only order a 300w PSU? Perhaps those of us who commented on what that HP tech guy told you were too subtle. How's this: he was talking out of his arse! :)
For your sake I hope you picked a good 1, as you might run into problems with a 300w PSU if it's a cheapo 1 [please tell me it's not a Q-tec!].
Remember I said about how although total wattage is important it's not as important as how much power it can put out on the seperate voltage lines? Well if you've ordered a cheapo 1, you might find that it might not be able to put out enough current [Amps] on 1 or more of the important voltage lines [12v, 5v, & 3.3v, but especially the 1st 2].
also, companies who make cheapo PSUs tend to be rather... economical with the truth, where the specs of their PSUs are concerned.
If anyone's interested, it's an HP m1160n Media Centre PC. About two years old if my memory serves me.
I knew there was a reason why I had a funny feeling when you mentioned it was an HP - I just did a bit of googling - it's a rebranded.... <shudder> Compaq. :eek: [HP bought/swallowed Compaq some time ago].
It could be worse I suppose, at least the motherboard is made by Asus, who are supposed to be pretty good [I've not had any], though it's socket 754, so when you want a new CPU you'll need a new motherboard, & memory too. You can still get socket 939 boards & CPUs, which would allow you to use your current DDR1 RAM, but the s939 CPUs are all discontinued, so what's in shops/stores now is all there is left, & most motherboard manufacturers will be discontinuing s939 boards before too long, if they haven't already. |
Post by Methusela // Nov 12, 2006, 10:39pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Originally posted by Alien
For your sake I hope you picked a good 1, as you might run into problems with a 300w PSU if it's a cheapo 1 (please tell me it's not a Q-tec!).
Is this one okay?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1617859&CatId=0
I went with the 300 watt one because that's all the video card requires and hey, just in case there was some truth behind Mr. Arsetalker's point, I won't get de-computered.
All of the rest of my compy's stats are great, especially the 2 gigs of RAM (So many weeks of minimum wage went into those!), it's just the card that sucks at the moment. Like in games or for TS, things load lightning fast, but for anything involving real time display it's got to be on the lowest settings and even then it's sometimes choppy. Hopefully those days will be behind me very soon. |
Post by Alien // Nov 13, 2006, 5:27am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Is this one okay?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1617859&CatId=0
The short answer, IMPO, is no, not really. I'm reading through a whole bunch of stuff to find you some useful links, etc, but while I'm doing that, have a read of this:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/about/interview.php
It's an interview with the founder/president of PC Power & Cooling, maker of THE best PSUs you can get. If money were no object, I'd say just get a PC P&C PSU, as you can't go wrong with them. There are other manufacturers that make pretty good PSUs as well, such as Enermax, Fortron, OCZ, etc. Have a read of that article, & you'll understand why it's better to go with a higher rated PSU if it's a cheaper model. 16A on the +12v line definitely seems a bit low to me [just as an example, mine's rated at 34A on the +12v line]. |
Post by daybe // Nov 13, 2006, 5:36am
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daybe
Total Posts: 562
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I agree, I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I missed something, but according to your signature you have an AMD 64, and so on. AMD recommends at least 300 Watts, I would think about getting a PSU of at least 450 W, If you are going to be getting a newer graphic card you may find that with a 300 W PSU it may not be enough and you system may end up being unstable.
just my 2 cents |
Post by Alien // Nov 13, 2006, 6:15am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Methusela: The only brand that site sells that I'd feel comfortable recommending is Enermax. IIWY, I'd go for at least the 460w model (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2503497&CatId=1078). Compare that to the Coolmax - Coolmax has 1 12v rail rated at 16A, the Enermax has 2, rated at 20 & 22A. Just a slight difference. :D Consider that not just your CPU, but all your case fans, any fans that run off the motherboard, & also your drives [though in your case just the 1 drive, as the external probably has its own PSU] all run off the 12v. Also, when they start up, HDDs require 3x their normal running current.
I forgot to add graphics card[s] to the list.
In case anyone's wondering, the reason I didn't recommend 1 made by Ultra is that whilst I am happy with mine [& they do have the US v. of mine], mine's the European v., & I've heard some people have had trouble with Ultra PSUs, but AFAIK most/all of them were in the US, so... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif |
Post by Methusela // Nov 13, 2006, 3:23pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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And if I buy that, you're absolutely certain I won't fry my motherboard?
It also said on the tech specs for my pc that the max upgrade for power was 300w...
Dont' get me wrong, I'd love to have a better PSU and graphics card, but if I lose my computer, I'm stuck at a college in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do and no TS to keep me company. ;o; |
Post by Methusela // Nov 13, 2006, 3:24pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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P.S. I really appreciate all the effort you guys are putting into helping me out, you're outstanding. Thanks! |
Post by Methusela // Nov 13, 2006, 3:52pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I just chatted with another member of HP tech support, here is the transcript from the conversation:
Shane G: Welcome to HP Total Care.
My name is Shane G. How may I assist you today?
Chris Gillen: Hullo Shane.
Shane G: Hello Chris.
Shane G: How are you doing?
Chris Gillen: I have just a quick question about upgrading my PSU
Chris Gillen: I'm doing well, yourself?
Shane G: I am fine. Thank you.
Shane G: I understand that you would like to upgrade the power supply unit. Am I correct?
Chris Gillen: The m1160n is shipped with a 250watt PSU, yes?
Shane G: May I know why you would like to upgrade power supply unit?
Chris Gillen: I chatted with another member of hp's tech support, and was told that my pc could be upgraded to a maximum of 300watts
Chris Gillen: Well for starters, AMD recommends at least 300watts for their processors. (Thanks, Alien. :D)
Chris Gillen: Second, I really want a new video card. ^^
Chris Gillen: The nVidia Gefore XFX 6800
Shane G: Great, I will really help you in purchasing the graphics card and power supply unit.
Chris Gillen: To be found at this link
Chris Gillen: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2201323&CatId=318
Chris Gillen: Down at the bottom it says that the system requirements for the card involve a 300watt PSU
Chris Gillen: Which would be okay I guess
Chris Gillen: But can my computer go more than that?
Shane G: Yes.
Shane G: You are right.
Chris Gillen: What is the wattage limit of my computer? Or is there such a thing?
Shane G: The Maximum you can go is upto 350W.
Chris Gillen: How come?
Shane G: This depends on the dimensions of the power supply unit.
Chris Gillen: I believe the m1160n is equipped with an ATX housing, yes?
Shane G: Yes.
Chris Gillen: Let's say I order a 460watt PSU, what would happen to my PC if I were to install it?
Shane G: You should not install higher capacity of power supply on the non tested computers. HP Media Center m1160n Desktop PC supports upto 350W Max.
Shane G: It is not recommended to upgrade too high.
Chris Gillen: Okay.
Chris Gillen: Has it been tested further in the past few months? When last I was here for tech support, I was told it had a max of 300watts...
Shane G: Chris, I the recommended maximum is only 300W. If you wish you can go upto 350W.
Chris Gillen: But you're the one who is correct I take it
Chris Gillen: Oh okay.
Chris Gillen: I gotcha.
Chris Gillen: Well, that is all I needed to know.
Chris Gillen: I thank you very much.
Shane G: You are welcome.
Chris Gillen: Have a great rest of the day!
Shane G: Shall I assist you in purchasing the card?
Shane G: Have a Great Day!!!
Chris Gillen: Nah, it's okay. I think I've got it under control from here. I just wanted to verify the max power upgrade with you.
Chris Gillen: You too!
Thoughts? |
Post by Alien // Nov 13, 2006, 4:19pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Thoughts?
1st: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/roflol.gif
2nd: I was just almost finished replying to your other post, but I'll add some comments based on your conversation before I post it. |
Post by Alien // Nov 13, 2006, 5:13pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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And if I buy that, you're absolutely certain I won't fry my motherboard?
It also said on the tech specs for my pc that the max upgrade for power was 300w...
Unless there's something fundamentally wrong with the design of the motherboard [which I sincerely doubt, but you never know] that would cause it to draw way more power than it needs, I can't imagine how it would fry it. As myself & GraySho said, whilst a PSU may be capable of providing X amount of power, they don't put out that much all the time, they just provide as much as whatever they're connected to draws from them.
If you really want to be certain, you could always ring Asus tech support on 502-995-0883 [they do have a web-based tech suport as well, but they don't list your mobo's model, presumably because it's an OEM model & the model is a required field in the contact form, so I'm assuming it won't let you submit without it]. Tell them you have a K8S-LA, which came in an HP m1160n, & that you want to upgrade your PSU to something more powerful, but that HP have told you that you can't put more than a 300w 1 in there or it'd fry it.
The only possible reasons I can think of that HP wouldn't want you putting a more powerful PSU in there are:
1. If they had 1 custom made for it that's smaller than the standard ATX PSU dimensions, & therefore a standard ATX PSU wouldn't fit [easy way to check that is if you can borrow 1 from someone else - doesn't even have to work, as you'll only be checking to see if it physically fits in there].
2. They want to limit how much you can upgrade your machine, so that there'll be more chance of you wanting to buy a newer/better 1 from them.
Dont' get me wrong, I'd love to have a better PSU and graphics card, but if I lose my computer, I'm stuck at a college in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do and no TS to keep me company. ;o;
Well, like I said - call Asus if you want to be 100% sure. The only genuine reason I can think of that you might not be able to use it is the 1 I mentioned above about physical size. OEM companies have a nasty habit of having stuff made specially for them so you'll only be able to use their official products with their systems, so as to prevent you from giving your money to other companies.
response to the quoted conversation:
Shane G: Welcome to HP Total Care.
Well it's certainly Total something, but I was thinking of another word beginning with C.
Chris Gillen: Well for starters, AMD recommends at least 300watts for their processors. (Thanks, Alien. :D)
Actually, that was Daybe, but without checking to make sure I'd say it sounds like something AMD would say. :)
Shane G: Great, I will really help you in purchasing the graphics card and power supply unit.
Translation: "Kerchinnng! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/money_eyes2.gif"
Chris Gillen: What is the wattage limit of my computer? Or is there such a thing?
Shane G: The Maximum you can go is upto 350W.
Chris Gillen: How come?
Shane G: This depends on the dimensions of the power supply unit.
Aha! I thought so. Bloody OEM manufacturers! Measure your current PSU in all dimensions [millimetres rather than inches if possible :)] & I'll compare it to the Enermax 1.
Of course, if it won't fit you could always just get another case & transfer everything across. As you're on a budget, is there a place that sells 2nd-hand computer stuff nearby? Or maybe keep an eye out for garage sales, as long as it's a proper ATX case [which means if yours won't take a standard ATX PSU then it isn't a proper ATX case]. Hell, you could even make 1 yourself out of wood if you're any good at carpentry & your college has a wood workshop that they'd let you use.
Or there's the geek tradition of dumpster diving, tech companies chuck out old systems or just system cases. I should warn you though that depending on local laws that might be of... questionable legality, in which case either ask 1st, or wear a balaclava & make sure you have your running shoes on. :D
Chris Gillen: I believe the m1160n is equipped with an ATX housing, yes?
Shane G: Yes.
Like I said, if that's true, it should be able to take any standard ATX PSU, & if a PSU's larger than the ATX standard [some are], it should say so on the site you buy from, or at the very least on the PSU manufacturer's site.
Chris Gillen: Let's say I order a 460watt PSU, what would happen to my PC if I were to install it?
Shane G: You should not install higher capacity of power supply on the non tested computers. HP Media Center m1160n Desktop PC supports upto 350W Max.
Shane G: It is not recommended to upgrade too high.
Translation: "Oh no! :eek: He might spend his money with another company, & might learn how to upgrade & build his own computers, then we won't get any more money from him!"
Chris Gillen: Has it been tested further in the past few months? When last I was here for tech support, I was told it had a max of 300watts...
Shane G: Chris, I the recommended maximum is only 300W. If you wish you can go upto 350W.
Translation: he's realised you're smarter than the average HP/Compaq home PC customer & is getting desperate. :) [Then again, if you were really smart you wouldn't have bought an HP in the 1st place. :p :D]
Shane G: Shall I assist you in purchasing the card?
Translation: "Please don't go, give me money, me love you long time" |
Post by Methusela // Nov 13, 2006, 11:06pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I decided to take another crack at it, this time with better results.
Andrew K: Welcome to HP Total Care for Desktops. My name is Andrew K. How may I assist you today?
Chris Gillen: Hello Andrew, how're you?
Andrew K: Hi Chris!
Andrew K: I am doing great!
Chris Gillen: Excellent.
Andrew K: Thank you for asking.
Andrew K: How are you doing today?
Chris Gillen: I'm doing quite well, thank you.
Chris Gillen: So. I am here to inquire about the upgradability of the power supply in my m1160n.
Andrew K: You are welcome.
Chris Gillen: Am I correct in stating that the m1160n is equipped with an ASUS K8S-LA motherboard?
Andrew K: I will check it for you.
Andrew K: Chris, could you provide me 4 minutes to retrieve the specifications of your computer?
Chris Gillen: Sure.
Andrew K: Thank you.
Chris Gillen: No problem.
Andrew K: I'm back. Thank you for your patience.
Chris Gillen: No problem.
Andrew K: Your computer: m1160n has the motherboard called 'salmon-GL6E' (Note that this is the HP name for the exact motherboard name I provided, as evidenced by this site: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c00255503&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN )
Chris Gillen: Really?
Andrew K: Yes Chirs.
Chris Gillen: Well, thank you for telling me so. My next question is if said PC has an ATX PSU housing.
Andrew K: You are welcome.
Andrew K: I am checking it for you.
Andrew K: Thank you for your patience.
Chris Gillen: You're quite welcome.
Andrew K: Your computer has mid-size tower - for l'atx motherboards
Chris Gillen: l'atx?
Andrew K: Micro atx * (Does this mean the abbreviation MATX refers to my housing?)
Chris Gillen: Aha.
Chris Gillen: What does this imply as far as upgrading my PSU goes?
Chris Gillen: Will it be difficult to find a PSU that fits?
Andrew K: I am afraid not.
Andrew K: I will assist you to purchase the best compatible PSU for your computer.
Chris Gillen: You're afraid not?
Chris Gillen: Hold up on the assited purchasing stuff for now...
Andrew K: May I know the wattage of the power supply unit that you want to install?
Chris Gillen: 460w
Andrew K: Fine.
Chris Gillen: I'm mostly here for information.
Andrew K: Sure. I will provide you the complete information.
Chris Gillen: If the information I gather is beneficial to my designs, I will purchase.
Chris Gillen: But my main concern at the moment...
Chris Gillen: Is that I have been told by one of your associates that this PC has a maximum wattage of 350, but is only recommended to have 300w max.
Andrew K: Thank you for the information.
Chris Gillen: I have been under the fortified impression that there was no maximum wattage limit, as PSUs do not output all of their power at once.
Chris Gillen: But instead, the motherboard draws only the necessary power from the PSU to keep the various hardware components functioning properly.
Chris Gillen: Do the statements of your associate imply that the motherboard is faulty?
Chris Gillen: Or did I completely miss something?
Andrew K: You are correct. Chris, the motherboard draws only the necessary power from the PSU.
Chris Gillen: Meaning that there is really no negative impact from having a high wattage PSU provided the motherboard functions correctly, yes?
Andrew K: Yes. You are right.
Chris Gillen: Does this mean I can purchase a 460w PSU and have it work just fine?
Andrew K: Yes Chris.
Chris Gillen: D'you have any idea why the tech support individual with whom I last chatted would say that the max wattage is 350?
Chris Gillen: I'm not accusing or anything, I'm just intrigued.
Andrew K: I understand your concern. Thank you for bringing this to our notice. I will pass this feedback to my supervisor.
Chris Gillen: Excellent.
Andrew K: I apologize for the wrong information provided by my colleague.
Chris Gillen: Well, I'm extremely pleased that my worries have been put to rest.
Chris Gillen: I offer my most sincere thanks to you for clearing this up.
Andrew K: You are most welcome.
Andrew K: It's great pleasure to assist an understanding person like you.
Andrew K: Is there anything else I may assist you with today?
Chris Gillen: I understand what it's like to deal with the general public, so I try to be as understanding as possible.
Chris Gillen: I did have one final question.
Andrew K: Let me hear that.
Chris Gillen: I have had conversations with many at HP tech support, and I was wondering if you guys get to actually type or if you have to select from predetermined conversation options...
Chris Gillen: Just out of curiosity.
Andrew K: In fact, we use both! (I just thought that was really funny. XD)
Chris Gillen: Cool!
Andrew K: Please feel free to ask me if you have any additional questions or if you require further clarification.
Chris Gillen: That's good that you get to type. I imagined it'd be a pain otherwise.
Chris Gillen: That's everything cleared up.
Chris Gillen: I thank you again for your tremendous help.
Andrew K: You are most welcome.
Chris Gillen: I hope you have a great day.
Andrew K: Thank you.
Andrew K: Have a nice day.
Andrew K: Take care.
Chris Gillen: Thanks.
Andrew K: Bye...
Chris Gillen: You too.
It would seem that I got my way simply by acting like I knew what I was talking about. I knew absolutely nothing about PSUs prior to this thread. XD
I'm still pretty naive when it comes to hardware as well, hence:
Then again, if you were really smart you wouldn't have bought an HP in the 1st place.
If I could afford Alienware, I'd totally go for it. ;_;
Quote:
Chris Gillen: Well for starters, AMD recommends at least 300watts for their processors. (Thanks, Alien. :D)
Actually, that was Daybe, but without checking to make sure I'd say it sounds like something AMD would say.
Ah, my apologies. Thanks to Daybe then! ^^
I note that this fellow has the same name as one of the old TrueSpace greats, Andy Kay, who I believe left us for Max some time ago. Brilliant artist. |
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