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Lights On Ts7.5
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Lights On Ts7.5 // Roundtable
Post by prodigy // Nov 8, 2006, 11:35am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hi.. i have few more questions about the next release of TS7.5...
And today im "playing" with the player mode and i found something peculiar..
The lights on the Model. for example the spotlights.. have falloff and it is show like a cone.. to see graphicly how far the lights goon.. and the cone to show what is light and what is not...
On player.. are 2 thigs i dont understand..
1) why the lights have a BALL ???
2) ON TS7.5 the player be show the cone??
Best regards.. |
Post by prodigy // Nov 8, 2006, 11:59am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Because im very very hurry to see the PLANAR FALLOFF FIXED..
I upload my Demos to show how important is for VRAY!
First i show a render made by me.. The chairs are from TS7 demo.. 8)
But the Table are modeled by me... Its not full complete but its good to show what i mean..
2931
You se how realistic look take a render with Planar light.. and VRAY???
Yes.. the chairs is on the air.. but look the quality...
Are a big problem in this render.. and you can see??? no??? Good!! and is because I dont show in this render.!!! its behind the camera.. and is the WALL!
Now look whats happend if i turn the camera and you see the wall infront the window orr a door... Its totaly White.. and thats never HAPPEND on realyt..
The light need be more brighten on next the window and more darker on the wall..
Thats what happend on the realyty.. no this?!!?!
2932
Because the planar light and vray are the best of the best on a realistic render.. WE NEED THE PLANAR LIGHT HAVE FIXED THE FALLOFF DISTANCE!!
And when somebody tell me (YES Prodigy.. we gonna fix that on the next release im not gonna stop!!) :banana: |
Post by prodigy // Nov 9, 2006, 4:13pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Nobody say something???
IM THE ONE WHO SEE THE POTENTIAL OF THE PLANAR LIGHTS???
Im gonna cry!!! :( |
Post by parva // Nov 9, 2006, 10:55pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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I would really like to say that this is fixed but I can't.
I can just say, if it's true what is planned so you will get more as just simple planar light, like you said and I agree is great for realistic lighting, but also building with a more realistic lighting method ;)
For the other 3 questions regarding to the mesh representative, I'm not sure.
I don't like how spot, local , camera etc. is looking in Player site also the lights should be, like a widget, scene size independent. Means the widget size is the same even if you zoom far out or in. |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 3:48am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Thanks parva for your post...
I hope that...
Realy..if somebody say me the bug on planar light be fixed?? thats all for me to buy the next release.. REaly.. I must work without problems on Vray..
TS make a BIG STEP with vray.. dont miss Vray send the TS renders to the HELL!!! :jumpy:
Best regards.. |
Post by GraySho // Nov 11, 2006, 4:16am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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TS make a BIG STEP with vray.. dont miss Vray send the TS renders to the HELL!!! :jumpy:
Best regards..
I would agree, if VRay for tS would have all the features that we have with Lightworks, like
#Layered materials
#DOF
#Motion Blur
#Volumetrics
#Mapped shaders
#Multipass
#Full and proper support of available lights
The current version can't convince me at all. It might be enough for architectural renders, but that's not what I'm doing. |
Post by Misc // Nov 11, 2006, 5:03am
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Misc
Total Posts: 59
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I would agree, if VRay for tS would have all the features that we have with Lightworks, like
#Layered materials
#DOF
#Motion Blur
#Volumetrics
#Mapped shaders
#Multipass
#Full and proper support of available lights
100% agree. VRay was the only reason for me to buy TS7. But there are many bugs and to less features.
I wish we would hear something new (good/bad) about VRay for TS. |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 5:12am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Only one thing.. to the 20th aniversari of caligari im gonna send my most large animation "architectual viz" rendered on Vray.. The time render.. 1 week. day and night.. Maybe thats gonna see the potential of vray render..
I only found 2 problem with vray and its not support texture mapping and texture animation.. only those... but you can render anithing and do what ts7 let you do...
Realy im very very happy with the vRay render.. and its only the First Version.. and i must recomend by my experience..
And does features like dof.. and bla bla.. are be on the next release...
http://www.caligari.com/News/PressReleases/20061017_tS75.asp?Cate=About&Subcate=PR
"Enhanced rendering capabilities
New rendering features in trueSpace7.5 will include much anticipated hair and fur shaders. Other new V-Ray features will include solid animation support, such as high quality motion blur, depth of field, post processing, anisotropic reflections, true displacement mapping and more. Users can also expect improvements in the Lightworks rendering tools too."
I HOPE THAT.... |
Post by hemulin // Nov 11, 2006, 7:08am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Only one thing.. to the 20th aniversari of caligari im gonna send my most large animation "architectual viz" rendered on Vray.. The time render. 1 week. day and night.. Maybe thats gonna see the potential of vray render.
That must a pretty complicated animation Prodigy, or/and very high detail. :D |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 11:23am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hi Hemulin...
The animation its from a Interior, with very high render quality, many many models made by me because my customer whas a furniture designer.. and he send me pictures like blueprint and i made one by one...
I found few render errors, but realy i run like a decathlon... render modeling texturing.. wow ...
The production time whas 10 days.. and 7 days are rendering..
Many render scenes i must cut on the half because i must render others..
A crazy week.. i dont sleep 3 days..
I dont wont to tell my animation its amazing.. but have lot of work..
And i hope you like.. but you must wait.. jejjejje |
Post by parva // Nov 19, 2006, 1:39am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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little addition (don't know if I had this already mentioned).
Another way to create sky lighting is with a plane in front of the windows with just an ambient value 1 - 10 (only problem is the limited illumination strenght).
3044
It will increase the rendertime due to the fact that there is no subdiv value and hemisamples should be high (50 and up) to avoid splotches.
Additional lights are also possible (sun as infinite light) if the plane is created as single sided and deactivate the cast and receive shadow function.
Post editing (light enhancing etc.) in Paintprogram is also mostly needed.
or HDRI, first downsample the hdri to smaller size - 256px for example and use as skylight
3046 |
Post by Methusela // Nov 19, 2006, 2:15am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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One thing I like to do is to set the lights facing away from the windows and at a plane tilted slightly downwards and setting the first GI bounce up really high.
Like so: |
Post by prodigy // Nov 19, 2006, 4:44pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Thanks for the post.. the only problem are the shadows.. have not the same quality.. i hope someday that be fixed..
Best Regards.. |
Post by Birdnest // Nov 19, 2006, 7:16pm
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Birdnest
Total Posts: 152
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Wait a sec, all of this light falloff mumbo and vray stuff...let me get this straight,.....there's a demo? :p
First i show a render made by me.. The chairs are from TS7 demo.. 8)
But the Table are modeled by me... Its not full complete but its good to show what i mean.. |
Post by prodigy // Jan 4, 2007, 7:01pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Again...
Someone can tellme if the caligari team fix the problem with the planar light falloff distance bug???
I know some people have the ts7.5 beta and the new vray... and i wont to know if they fix this bug or not.. :D |
Post by prodigy // Jan 5, 2007, 2:17am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Why its so dificult make bug questions to the caligari team ?!?!?!?!?!?
:mad: |
Post by TomG // Jan 5, 2007, 2:47am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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That's because there is a beta testing forum for the bugs. While we pay attention to the main forums and bugs posted there for tS7.5 to fix, we just don't have the resources to handle two sets of threads for the same thing and be posting in two places unfortunately.
So you won't always see replies here that are related to the state of tS7.5, ie is this particular bug fixed or not yet. That happens on the beta forums of course, bugs raised and discussed, and when time permits we will copy across from there to here.
However the bugs are paid attention to and noted. We just dont always manage to post the beta test information as to when they have been addressed etc on the non-beta test forums.
HTH,
Tom |
Post by prodigy // Jan 5, 2007, 2:56am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Tom.
Can i say something??
Allways you say many things.. but you never ask my questions...
Im not beta tester.. im not pro team..
but i know from a good source that bug its not fixed on the 7.5 beta... and i reported infinite of times...
Maybe caligari only listen the beta testers, and thats why caligari launch versions full of bugs..
My patient have a limit... realy...
I waste my time reporting bugs and i think the only bug they fix its the camera bug rotation.. :cool: |
Post by TomG // Jan 5, 2007, 3:40am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Here is how it works.
During a maintenance schedule, the beta list is quiet and most bugs come from here, and are reported here, and are answered here.
During a major version release, especially once well under way shall we say, most bugs come from the beta list. Caligari staff like myself, Paul and Norm move bugs from here to the beta list. Eagle eyed beta testers do the same. Replies will happen on the beta list, but generally there is not time to move replies over to these regular forums, it's just not possible. We can't entertain a discussion here on the main forum about the development of a major version release, and that includes discussion of whether or not a particular bug has been addressed yet.
Not all bug reports are worked on in order of reporting. They are prioritised. While it seems you are telling me that you are being told information you should not be told - that is, someone from the beta list is reporting on what they believe is the status of the bug - it is way more complicated than that. You naturally do not see the things that are being worked on. Naturally in a major release there are new tools being added, and generally they have to be completed in general first, then the nailing down of specific bugs from old tools and new tools begins in earnest.
So you do not know the state of the beta at the minute, as to what is being tested and what is not. Neither do all beta testers, including the one who is apparently reporting to you, know what the developers are currently working on, and the order they have things planned for. Even I don't know that in fact, since reporting on all that sort of detail would mean no work would get done, if a developer had to say "Well that's number 27 on my list, here are the 26 that have to go first with my estimates of how long they will take..."
We just can't get into that.
And that is why I don't reply, because there is currently no new information on this bug. That is natural and normal during the development of a major version release, that the status of specific individual bugs is not reported on, particularly on public forums.
And since I have nothing useful to tell you, other than that the bug is posted on the beta forums, then I don't reply. I have many bugs that I myself have raised on the beta forums themselves and am waiting for my reply to those, and I am patient about it, everything in time and in its place.
So while I am sorry that you feel impatient and in the dark, there is nothing I can say that will make things any better for you - we just don't have time and resources to update about specific bugs during a major version release.
The fact it is not solved yet - according to what your "source" knows - does not mean it will not be solved.
And this is why beta testers should not discuss the state of the software outside of the beta list. Now you have been told to the best of someone's knowledge that the bug is not fixed, but not being part of the beta you don't have the whole story (and unless your source was the developer the bug is assigned to, they don't know the whole story either), and that means you are now jumping to conclusions and jumping to reactions.
I do hope whoever is reporting this information to you does the useful thing which is to stop doing that, and instead just tell you that no information about specific bugs can normally be released outside of the beta list.
HTH,
Tom |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 5, 2007, 4:02am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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And its why I won't pay for a beta Product full of bugs. :D |
Post by prodigy // Jan 5, 2007, 5:01am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Tom,
First my "source" make me the "favor" to ask my that question because the caligari team dont responce me if that be fixed on the ts7.5 final release..
you are right.. maybe and i still hope, that bug be fixed for the own good of caligari and vray...
That STUPID bug... its more important that you think...
The most amazing interior scenes, rendered with vray over max and other highend 3d softwares use that light..
In ts?? simple i cant.. because doesnt work properly...
That bug reduce my 3d quality, for me and my clients..and mantaine me behind other 3d users and that is somethin what i dont whant...
(Behind 3d users = Lost money..)
And a i tellyou..
Im gonna pay my next 50$ upgrade.. but im gonna post any bug not fixed on this forum.. and i whant to know what you gonna askme...
bugs over the player bugs over the model and bugs over the vray plugin..
Thats something i dont whant to do.. but i have a compromise with my self, and is no accept something what works wrong.. and plus if i pay for that.. |
Post by Steinie // Jan 5, 2007, 5:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Hopefully Roman reads this thread about a Business needing this important feature to work. I would rate that issue above any average user doing TS7 for fun. If you loose Business users your in big trouble. How many times have people asked through the years "Is TS a good program to learn for my Career?"
If they hear " I run a thriving business using it" I would put more faith into that application.
Caligari could have privately sent Prodigy a hush hush email and said "we're working on it" End of discussion.
Obviously that is the exception to the rule...but don't loose those businesses! My two cents after Teaching Students, working with Programmers and dealing with Businesses for over 35 years. Sometimes taking the extra step pays back huge dividends. |
Post by TomG // Jan 5, 2007, 5:51am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I think all the bugs you have posted here have been posted on the beta forums, that I recall, and none of them have any higher or lower priority than bugs posted from beta testers directly. All bugs are considered serious, and all bugs are considered in need of fixing!
The favor should never have been done, since it actually is not a favor - since it is a "snippet" of the whole picture, it can be nothing but mis-representative, so the beta tester who did that has done nothing but cause you unnecessary alarm. Since you don't know the state of the beta, the stage it is at, the current focus on development and testing, etc, then hearing "Oh that bug is still there" really doesn't tell you anything, but just makes you worried.
This is why there is an NDA about beta testing :)
Believe me our beta testers are very vocal about the things that need fixing, that's why they are there (they aren't "yes men" just there to agree with us). In fact, I am very vocal, I won't be letting 7.5 out the door without shouting and yelling about my bugs too ;) There is no thought of rushing this out the door, or just doing the latest features and ignoring existing bugs, etc. The thought is to make this a great release in all ways, new features and existing, and stability and bugs are as important as the new animation tools.
Note that the only exception are bugs in the "Modeler" side - that is, since tS6.6 code is heading toward redundant, fixes to the tools there will take place in their replacements over in the tS7 side. As noted before many bugs in the old pre-tS7 code are not fixable anyway, or at least not easily, which of course is the whole reason for the new code.
So, do not be alarmed by no direct feedback on these forums about your bugs. You can't draw any conclusions from that! The one conclusion you can know not to draw is that we didnt see it, or that we dont care. We saw it, we care. However, we can't guarantee telling you when in the beta cycle the issue is having development time spent on it - we will if we can post and say "yep done that" but sometimes there is just not time.
And partial information from beta testers about individual bugs is also no reason to draw any conclusions - "not fixed in this last release" does't mean much at all when it comes to what will be released once 7.5 is out the door.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 5, 2007, 10:51am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I guess this is what you get as the "Extra Package" when you 'buy' a Beta version of a program; NDA, "Yes, we have no bananas." :D
After I first purchased tS66, the standard phrase was, "This is a known bug..."
of course after waiting for an answer why it was never fixed...
I look forward to the next phraseology of the bug issue. heh heh |
Post by prodigy // Jan 5, 2007, 11:10am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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TomG,
Honestly.. I REALY need the Bug over the PLANAR LIGHT FALLOFF be fixed on the TS7.5...
I work with TS as a long time ago.. I love 3D because i do what i love, and plus... my customers pay me for share what i do..
But im not rich to pay 2 3 o 4 upgrades to see the bugs fixed because the developers are full moving tools from model to player..
Mayor part of the bugs have a work arround.. and i dont need be fixed with hurry... But this bug.. or the vray doesnt have animation or mapping textures.. are at my point of view very important to make good works..
Nothing more to say..
Have a good time.. |
Post by TomG // Jan 5, 2007, 12:48pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I understand you really need the bug fixed. As noted it has been posted over on the beta forums, and in fact was posted when you raised it (not just since you have raised it repeatedly - this is one I think got posted over there right away). That means this bug is in the development cycle along with all the other bugs, as previously stated.
There is nothing more we can say other than that at the moment - we have never said we aren't dealing with this bug, the bug isn't fixable, etc. It is on the list along with all the other bugs, with no more or less importance than all the other ones, they arent bottom of the list since they came from outside the beta team etc.
It may well not be until the final release that we can comment further on specific bugs though, but do note, the bugs are on the list and in the development cycle.
HTH,
Tom |
Post by SiW // Jan 12, 2007, 1:37pm
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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I can say this has definitely been addressed so that the falloff is now in line with the way 3dsmax handles area lights with Vray. In some ways it's more restrictive because you don't specify a falloff distance like you do with other lights, it's either off or on, but I think you'll agree that it looks much better.
Of course, it does mean that some scenes will probably have to be re-lit to account for potentially different intensities. That's why it's always such a delicate procedure to change anything relating to the renderer.
And just to repeat what Tom said, just about every legitimate complaint brought up on the forums is passed along to the development team, whether it comes from the beta testers or not. With only 24 hours in each day, I'm sure you'd rather developers spend time on the code rather than responding to each forum post though, right? ;)
Incidentally, if you have a specific scene you want to test with, pass it along to me and I'll have a look. |
Post by Steinie // Jan 12, 2007, 2:16pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Are you a Beta tester? A Caligari member? ProTeam Member? How would you know this otherwise?:confused: |
Post by prodigy // Jan 12, 2007, 2:41pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Steinie you read my mind??? |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 12, 2007, 3:18pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Simon is not new to trueSpace community. He wrote VirtuaOut which connects tS scenes with VirtuaLight renderer, and as Caligari employee he wrote IBL rendering for TS6. Before that he published a fair amount of popular TS rendering plug-ins and shaders know as CoolPowers.
that is an excerpt of romans introduction of simon some months ago when he joined the developing team. I think he is working on the vray side...
hope that doesn't get me in trouble...
rich |
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