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Questions To The Caligari Team...
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Questions To The Caligari Team... // Roundtable
Post by prodigy // Nov 10, 2006, 2:33pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Me again..
Im very lost on this 7.5 pre release and i need someone from caligari team ask my questions honestly..
First, im gonna talk like a customer.
1) when caligary team gonna show the List of Bugs Fixed for the next release..
2) Whats new gonna have this TS7.5 upgrade, Point for point..
3) List of bug fixed on VRAY and whats new...
Thats all for me, and please we need clear info.. |
Post by TomG // Nov 10, 2006, 6:35pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Please see the many other posts on our policy about releasing information. Basically, we do not give such final lists until release is imminent, because otherwise the list always changes. This leads to unhappiness (something not on the list, people get unhappy, then it makes it in, but too late the unhappiness is there; something on the list, it doesn't make it in, people unhappy as it was on the list).
So, there will be no comprehensive, complete and final lists of this nature until release is right around the corner.
We will maintain as much communication as possible of course, including information on new features or bug fixes, but nothing complete and in concrete until release is very near indeed.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Asem // Nov 10, 2006, 6:39pm
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Asem
Total Posts: 255
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If its anything they do at least list the bug fixes like ts7.1 -> ts7.11 in a .doc or .txt file with the installation. I don't really remember where it is but they at least do that now. |
Post by prodigy // Nov 11, 2006, 3:11am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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TomG.. how are you...
The Bug list dont make me unhappy.. make me unsure what going on... :confused:
I must pay 50$ now.. to get the upgrade.. im not sure if the TS7.5 is released i must pay more later... for example.. I need to know WHAT NEW on TS7 and VRAY.. because i don like pay for things maybe im not interesed...
Maybe on other future.. but not in this release..
Yes.. maybe you dont have a full bug list... and day by day the list increase... or not... maybe the bugs are not a priority and new animation it is..
And as i tell.. nobody from caligari said anything contundent about what have.. or what is fixed..
And i questioned if the post on captain blogs are good information or only make cofusion.. About the fur and displacent mapping.. i read it is on TS7.5 and now nobody can tellme its a reality..
The same with a little but very important bug on VRAY.. Planar Light.. and Animation Texture..
WHy dont say what is fixed at the moment??? maybe helpme and others.... |
Post by TomG // Nov 13, 2006, 5:16am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Once again, please see our policy on releasing information.
If I tell you bug x is fixed, and then in fixing bug y or additon feature B, bug x reappears and there is no time to fix it before release, you will complain because I told you bug x is fixed.
So that is why we never release information until release time, because ANY part of the software development can ALWAYS change. Even something fixed and working 100% now could conceivably find itself broken or undone or needing to be removed for something else to work, etc.
So, for those reasons as explained in our policy, final, definite, concrete lists will only be available when release is imminent. For some, that will mean waiting until release is imminent before deciding whether to upgrade; other will be happy to upgrade based on general information without the absolute specifics; still others will wait until after release before upgrading.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by prodigy // Nov 13, 2006, 9:43am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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100% CLEAR...
I think you understand my opinion and i understand yours..
Thanks TomG :) |
Post by nowherebrain // Nov 13, 2006, 9:43am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I do a bit of C++ and this is absolubly true of code...fix one thing and another starts acting wacky....
on the other hand I've also come up with some neat "happy accidents" with some of my trig. |
Post by adriani // May 10, 2009, 3:45am
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adriani
Total Posts: 89
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hi All!
I would like to know about our Vray !! |
Post by jrboddie // May 10, 2009, 4:39am
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jrboddie
Total Posts: 91
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Amusing threads of late.
This one reminds us that the purpose of Caligari silence on bug lists and release dates is to avoid unhappiness. However, it appears that lack of information is plenty cause for unhappiness itself.
I don't think that Caligari is alone in its reticence to publish roadmaps and future release information--see Silo and Kerkythea forums for examples. If you want to go with a tool that you can actually see and try development releases on a daily basis there is Blender.
I wish that Caligari would recognize that regular and rather frequent releases are as much a feature of a software product as NURBS or rendering options. Sure it is just a tool and if the current release gets the job done, the next release doesn't really matter. But it does matter psychologically to many people who have the desire to purchase, learn and use tools that are growing in capability rather than stagnating.
I applaud the efforts of the script writers but, to me, this is not the same as enhancements from the manufacturer.
Perhaps if the Workspace (the future!) non-RT rendering option had not been pulled, then these issues would be not quite so critical. I don't know--as there seems to have been many similar threads before this announcement.
As I prepare to hit the 'Submit Reply' button, I ask myself what is the point? Well, just another cry from the user community for Caligari to return to the days in which people had a sense that the product is going forward. |
Post by Finis // May 10, 2009, 4:50am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Hi Prodigy,
Since you are a professional in 3d (You're living our dreams!) I can see that you need to finish any current projects using TS by using TS. You can't learn and use new software in the middle of a project.
Otherwise, why are you looking at the next TS 7? As a pro you need programs you can rely on. You need to spend your time, effort, and creativity making products for your customers and not fighting problems with your software. All programs have problems of course but some have more than others.
- Use other software.
- At least don't use TS as your main program.
- Don't bother to beta test TS or pre-releases.
- Watch for future TS's and see if they are useful to you.
I'm only here because this is a great bunch of people on this forum, it is just a hobby for me, and I already have it ... and I'm looking at other programs for my hobby 3D. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 10, 2009, 5:35am
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RAYMAN
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I don't think that Caligari is alone in its reticence to publish roadmaps and future release information--see Silo and Kerkythea forums for examples. If you want to go with a tool that you can actually see and try development releases on a daily basis there is Blender
The difference is my feeling !
With Silo and Kerkythea I know they are working on something !
They just dont point out what... but we get constantly updated
while all the threads asking about Truespaces future are like little
treadmills.......your running but your not going anywhere.
There are little pieces missing in the software that keep you from using it also....
To make an animation with lip synch Ts is missing a sound track....
I would like to use it more for a future project but it makes it
incredibly difficult...:o |
Post by prodigy // May 10, 2009, 6:17am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Wow.. 2006.
Sorry guys for the years of bad english!! heeheheh:D
This reminds me the old good times here.. Vray for Workspace, New Animation tool.. Player ~ Workspace, jajajaja TruePlay , Ambassador program Etc..etc..etc..
Was a big time of fun here.. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 10, 2009, 6:52am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Heh, someone pulled out the thread resurrection rod big time on this one. :p |
Post by Finis // May 10, 2009, 7:35am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Hmm I didn't notice how long ago this thread started. Different year. Same gripes. |
Post by theuns // May 12, 2009, 12:28am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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And it seems there has not been an answer yet after 3 years :( |
Post by adriani // May 12, 2009, 1:12am
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adriani
Total Posts: 89
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Yes theuns!!!
nobody answer ,and NO answer yet after 3 years :( |
Post by TomG // May 12, 2009, 1:31am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The question was what is going to be new in tS7.5 - that was answered when tS7.5 came out ;) And of course then tS7.6.
Policy remained not to discuss the bug lists in advance of release of course, then that always was policy. And tS7.6 came out for free, so the question of "I need to pay do I really need this upgrade I would like to know what's in it" became redundant too.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by prodigy // May 12, 2009, 4:41am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Im not agree Tom.
Even on a free app. if your software still with the same bugs, no new features.. that means you are loosing your time on a BAD QUALITY software and you are wasting your time on something FAR FAR behind any other Softwares.. EVEN BLENDER that is FREE and OPEN SOURCE.
So know which the bug fixes are is a very important to keep people interested on your application and to show that the Software is still ALIVE, UPDATED and COMPETITIVE.
Who will continue working with Truespace if after year and a half we are still waiting for a fixes? a point upgrade? 10 years for TS8??
Thanks god i can use the beta, but think about work 1 year and a half with the same bugs that 2007?? and try to be productive??... OUCH!! that Hurts!
***"that was answered when tS7.5 came out"
And Sorry but remember the PRE RELEASE OFFER was BEFORE 7.5 RELEASE and we must payed WITHOUT KNOW ANY BUG FIX OR FEATURES LIST ALSO.. That was very cool too!
Take a look in modo pre release 402 page... They has a very good way to keep people interested.
cheers! |
Post by TomG // May 12, 2009, 5:05am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I wasn't entering into the discussion on the current situation, I was merely correcting people that there aren't questions here that have been unanswered for 3 years,
Best regards,
Tom |
Post by Johny // May 12, 2009, 6:16am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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Prodigy, I'm afraid we must wait until Microsoft sell tS to other company. :(
When Roman, still the owner, we can cry for fix and undate but I think its useless when Microsoft still the owner. :mad:
Just wish Roman still have enough responsibility to old registered users. :p
Roman may dont know before that the process to the goal make live more interesting, and its become boring after reach the goal. :D |
Post by prodigy // May 12, 2009, 7:18am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Prodigy, I'm afraid we must wait until Microsoft sell tS to other company.
And im afraid that you are right Johny :D
#Tom
"I was merely correcting people that there aren't questions here that have been unanswered for 3 years"
Well, you know a few of my questions that for about 3 years still unanswered.
For example where is the Vray motion blur mentioned in the very first post from captain's blog..
Let's refresh the memory.
FIRST POST CAPTAINS BLOG.
"4. Rendering
Yes, you will get Hair and Fur shaders :) V-Ray will be moved to the Player side so that bridge will no longer get in the way there. Other new V-Ray features will be good animation support, such as high quality motion blur, incremental updates for irradiance/photon maps, GI light maps, multi-pass rendering, depth of field, post processing, chromatic refraction, anisotropic reflections, true displacement mapping and more. There will be improvements in Lightworks too."
And btw, i have a few others but who cares.. i know how caligari works..
Don't feel bad Tomas.. you must understand you still watched as the face of Caligari, And the most in here are Old customers.. not just downloaders.. So who will receive all our complaints??
You are in the middle of the battle field and i know you have no fault here or the desitions maded by caligari. Also i know you made a good job trying to keep stamina up and it's hard without any support behind you.
Just try to keep this comments as a point of view from the old users and don't fell atacked by us. there's nothing against you my friend. |
Post by TomG // May 12, 2009, 7:45am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Won't take it as an attack :) Appreciate the comments there too.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by noko // May 12, 2009, 7:47am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Now we know why predicting software is a mistake. I am sure Roman had every intention to get those things in. Now Chaos group is also involved during this time plus there was a number of issues with VRay when they changed over to a more recent compiler which delayed everything and made things very slow and buggy. I think best solution is free standing VRay or Fryrender but future is really going to be massive parrallel processing using GPU's. Not sure if VRay will even be around in 3 years, I do think Fryrender will be though. Real time raytracing is right around the corner. |
Post by Wigand // May 12, 2009, 8:03am
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Wigand
Total Posts: 462
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Let's refresh the memory.
Roman:
You know me and my ambitions for trueSpace and web-based 3D collaboration. Let me tell you right away that there were no compromises I had to make to accommodate our vision within the Virtual Earth platform, in fact I was challenged to increase the scope of our vision. I talked to many people at Virtual Earth group and I am convinced that the technical team behind Virtual Earth has a significant, long-term commitment to the 3D Web.
...
How long should we wait to see the "no compromises" coming true? |
Post by prodigy // May 12, 2009, 8:34am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Won't take it as an attack :) Appreciate the comments there too.
Thanks!
Tom
Ok, Thanks Tom :) |
Post by Emma // May 12, 2009, 8:41am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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.. EVEN BLENDER that is FREE and OPEN SOURCE.
....
Sorry to say, but that's only half the truth. The other half is that blender is selling a lot of stuff to keep on developing alife: like books, DVD, t-shirts,......, raises money from sponsors and uses sponsored possibilities like google summer of code to ensure that the program bugs are worked on ( and don't tell me there are no bugs)
Another truth is that if people would use the free (!!!) SDK of trueSpace they could enhance, make workarounds ( and don't tell me there are no workarounds in blender:D) So even if it is not OPEN SOURCE it could be developed on by the ts comunity. And that I think is the main difference, trueSpace user used to wait for new releases and buy plugins, now they are in almost the same situation as with blender, ts is free, could get developed on by the user base, but not much happens.
So be fair, as I think what Tom said in his 11:31 post is fair.
For myself I'm digging into the SDK, as I have to do it in my free time it takes time, but I still have the feeling that it will be worht the effort
And also it is not talked about it, I'm also sure if the economy would be differrent, then trueSpace would also have another status, but econmy will come up again. From my point of view a good reason for Caligari to keep the source and not spread it to the comunity. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 12, 2009, 8:45am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I think best solution is free standing VRay or Fryrender but future is really going to be massive parrallel processing using GPU's. Not sure if VRay will even be around in 3 years, I do think Fryrender will be though. Real time raytracing is right around the corner.
.......
Theres many options and noone answered to the
post from CdeB
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=8353
not a bad option either
or Yafaray or Kerky or whatever......the price is also a question for many...
Or Bunkspeed if you are into realtime Gi
3d world is very big ! |
Post by prodigy // May 12, 2009, 9:22am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Emma,
Every software has bugs since was made by humans.
Xp, vista etc. has bugs also and MS spent millions of dollars on its development..
Who whill expect for a 0 bug software? i don't.
That's why beta testers "exist".. to try to find bugs..
Then, is caligari business fix them or not.. and you CAN'T fix those bugs from the SDK but YES with the Source Code.. that's the BIG difference between SDK and SOURCE CODE.
But SDK is ok for thirdparty developers.. i have no comlpaints about if Caligari must release the source code?!?! that is insane and has no sense give for free who know how many years of knowleadge and work.. Has no sense..
So that's why we are requesting for bug fixes, cos ONLY CALIGARI is able to fix them.. no you, not me..Just Caligari.
There are bugs that you can live with for some time.. but others not.. Vray Glass is a VERY BIG VISUAL example.. And we must live with and for me, that is not acceptable.
GLASS EMMA!.GLASS!! 2009! :o
Sell book, tshirts etc..etc.. IS cool!!
For those who want to learn, Buy those things are the key to a Fast learning courve.. Emma developers eat food sometimes..
You can learn buying those cool books or tutorials to make your life easier, or you can just learn as i after years and years of training.. Both are good.. all depends on your budget..
I had the idea to build Dvd's full of tutorials, dynamic objects, etc.. for Truespace but untill things still at this way, the bet is too high and im not sure to win enough for the work involved.. more at this point where everything is such unstable.. |
Post by marcel // May 12, 2009, 9:38am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I am a little tired of all this talking about update. Perhaps because I become old. All I know is that the apps have bugs because men have bugs.
I will return in 2012 to read more of this thread :D |
Post by prodigy // May 12, 2009, 9:40am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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you are not the only one tired about this Marcel.. ;) |
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