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Questions To The Caligari Team...
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Questions To The Caligari Team... // Roundtable
Post by mrbones // May 12, 2009, 9:55am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Itll be Armegeddon by then:(
I am a little tired of all this talking about update. Perhaps because I become old. All I know is that the apps have bugs because men have bugs.
I will return in 2012 to read more of this thread :D |
Post by redcrosse // May 12, 2009, 11:50am
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redcrosse
Total Posts: 19
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I've gotta say it would be nice if there was a team lead/member blog that talks say *monthly* of what's going on (I'm aware of Roman's blog, its not doing it for me right now)...
As far as estimating release dates I understand where Caligari's comming from and I can understand why you may want to keep the developers insulated from the public. I've been writing software for over 10 years and managing dev teams for over 8 years and have had to deal with those same issues, but this silence is deafining (I could be jealous, I've never had the privelege of this much latitude :p). I can also sympathize with not understanding in detail what issues will be resolved, but at this point I can't even guess at the overall product direction!? (I've delayed a project from using TS due to this lack of direction.)
There were two products GS and TS. GS is dead, but the exports haven't been delivered in TS and I'm hearing that they aren't comming back. Then there's the virtual earth angle and VRay... How would someone know if the product is aligned with what they need or if it has transitioned to be something different that no longer fits thier needs? For example, personally I don't care about virtual earth. When I bought my license to TS I had no inclination to go there and if virt earth is the product's "reason for living" I'd switch to a different product with haste. Maybe I'm thick and all the info is there somewhere and I just missed it... *shrugs*
The lack of communication makes me speculate that either you guys have something comming out that's really amazing that you don't want to disclose OR that MS can't figure out what direction to take its new aquisition (my money would be on the latter). The product has some great features and there's some amazing potential especially given the synergy possible with MS (XNA, offline renderers, etc), but synergy won't keep the lack of communication from killing what could be.
<disclaimer>Don't take this as bashing, I just feel like your core issue is the lack of communication and its a serious one.</disclaimer> |
Post by transient // May 12, 2009, 3:08pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Just saw groundhog's day for the nth time on the weekend. Don't know why, but it seems very apt.;) |
Post by Stem // May 12, 2009, 8:24pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Hello,
I know most just put forward nothing as changed, and in some respects that is correct. However, MS now run this, which is a big change.
From the point of TomG putting forward the never ending "we dont say anything" (no offense Tom, I can understand your position), but we are not looking for news of possible new tools, just some feedback on bug fixes. now I know, again it will be "We dont say anything" but that is a direction that just pushes users away. I know i have a moan'n'groan many times, but that is not an attack, its because I actually like TS (even though I dont fully understand all the implementations within the workspace) But it is off putting taking time to learn when the future is uncertain with no news for such a long period.
I will put forward again: Why dont Caligai/MS just make an open beta of TS (MS are even putting out Win7RC)? There does not need to be direct support, users can support each other, just a need to create a forum. It would generate interest /feedback etc, unless of course nothing is actually being done to TS, which is the impression that I and probably other are getting.
- Stem |
Post by Steinie // May 13, 2009, 12:48am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Something has changed since MicroSoft bought Caligari, communication got worse. Roman DID occasionally give us information on what might be coming. OK so now he has a new role, a much bigger role. Who took his place to keep us somewhat informed? No one stepped up yet since the merger. Even when he visits he has nothing to say. Even the Beta testers are frustrated.
I personally gave up on hoping for anything from this Company anymore. To me Caligari is an empty shell with nothing to offer. They have a website with a fantastic user base. Caligari is lucky to have us and not the other way around.
Since I was a paying customer they should be thanking me for being here.
Giving us no information is insulting. |
Post by Iceman // May 13, 2009, 6:41am
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Iceman
Total Posts: 36
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:mad: What could I say there has been in Caligari? Do you have any way of user visits the company and put the pictures here on the forum see us? The Roman faithful users without seeing many answers, if regret to have sold his dream ??!!! |
Post by Breech Block // May 13, 2009, 8:35am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Mmmm, well I guess I kinda understand about the whole we don't give out news on future updates thing. But, the one thing I don't understand is that since Microsoft's takeover, why hasn't their PR machine leapt into action to promote tS as THE free 3D software of choice. When you look in all the magazines and other 3D related media, the coloum inches that Blender is now getting is pretty massive. There even getting some huge 3 -4 page articles and there is a Blender For Dummies book about to be released too. Since this forum's decline, I have started to visit quiet a few other places and people are always asking about how they can get started in 3D or the fact they find the Blender UI just too unmanagble. When I mention trueSpace, nobody has ever heard of it. Now you can say what you want about Microsoft, but when it comes to informing the world of a new product, there usually pretty darn good at it. So, how come it's so quiet on the trueSpace front? |
Post by GraySho // May 13, 2009, 10:11am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Maybe tS7.6 was the last release we will ever see and a new product is on the way. Other software developers have done so in the CG history.
3D Studio became MAX, Wavefront became Maya, Prisms became Houdini etc.
With a new name, technology (based on the rosetta concept) and the resources from MS it could gain acceptance and users. Of course they could not announce the death of tS until they were allowed to announce the new app. Just imagine the impact on this forum. :D
But this is just one of many theories. |
Post by jamesmc // May 13, 2009, 10:17am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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One thing I'm almost absolutely convinced of is that Roman was not hired by Microsoft to advance trueSpace.
Most likely, Roman was hired to implement some sort of Virtual Earth utility into the grand picture of some sort of Microsoft graphical integration suite.
I'm guessing that vector, 3D and 2D graphics will be created from one portion of the suite and applied to a new type of browser or stand alone viewers.
A mouse will become a thing of the past as newer technologies embraced virtual manipulation of objects in a 3D environment.
Using some sort of modified "Michael Jackson' glove, the home user will be able to model in 3D with intuitive pushing a pulling, much like a sculpture or a mason using virtual building blocks.
A wave of the hand, a cloud of dust, "Hi Ho Silver!" :) |
Post by CdeB // May 13, 2009, 8:58pm
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CdeB
Total Posts: 160
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I don't know whether it is possible to say anything constructive on the theme of this thread and unfortunately the saying "no news is good news" does not hold here.
I am reading a book on marriage at the moment and the main reason for marital breakdown is lack of communication. But I think this extends to all human relationships. Unfortunately this is a community forum and community is again about communication.
Tom (and possibly others including Roman) are between a rock and a hard place regarding communication. It is likely to be a result of the Microsoft aquistion and probably for two reasons 1. increase in busyness and 2. a tighter policy on advanced disclosure. Therefore, communication has all but ceased regarding future developments. Being pessimestic I would throw in the economic down turn into that pot as well, looking at the loss of jobs in Microsoft.
Unfortunately, Microsoft for its bread and butter income (an operating system and Office, I guess) doesn't need to communicate. Most people on the planet are already dependent users...not true of course for trueSpace.
As has been suggested already in this thread and as I pointed out in a letter to 3D World some time ago, if Microsoft was even to give its publicity machine a slight prod it could give trueSpace big time exposure...but it doesn't. There can be loads of reasons for this all covered in this thread and elsewhere. If I am not being pessimistic about trueSpace's future then my favourite reason would be it is difficult to promote a product which is at a halfway house stage without it backfiring on you, mind you Microsoft does not seem to bother about this each time it releases an operating system:D;). So the solution would be to devote development time to a speedy transition and then a relaunch. Nothing speedy seems to be happening (it could be, but there is no communication -been here before:rolleyes:), so my suspicion is resources are not being devoted....
In a marriage affirmative statements help a lot and one positive one (without giving any specifics away at all) is that the marriage has a future.
So my appeal, (probably to Microsoft first and foremost) is please restate that trueSpace (and not just Rosetta code) has a future... given the comment by Johny above, we have sunk to that level of concern here in the community.... |
Post by theuns // May 13, 2009, 9:23pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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i agree, communication is CRUCIAL, a 'no comment' policy is ridiculous in any business or relationship...
expectations can be managed through communication and announcements...
this is a very big personal pet peeve of mine everywhere in life and the world, the lack or break down of communications... very sad and frustrating... |
Post by transient // May 13, 2009, 11:21pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Microsoft can't be blamed for a policy that has been in place for far longer than they've been involved.
I think that it is very probable that MS have no idea whatsoever about the level of dissatisfaction among Caligari's former paying customers. Big businesses are like bee hives, there's no guarantee that any of the controversies that happen here are known about by the blokes upstairs.
When do you ever see MS personnel posting here? |
Post by Johny // May 14, 2009, 1:18am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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Microsoft always included mspaint 2D image editor on ever windows version.
What do you think if start from windows 7 they also include trueSpace as 3D modeler tool on every future windows version? :D |
Post by brotherx // May 14, 2009, 1:52am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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They'd not be that stupid. the EU would probably slap them with another investigation for bundling... |
Post by Johny // May 14, 2009, 2:23am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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They'd not be that stupid. the EU would probably slap them with another investigation for bundling...
Will they be investigation for only because include a simple 3D modeling tool with realtime viewer without any offline render engine:confused:
Ah I understand now why they never improve their 2D mspaint. :o
<edit>I mean only new tS workspace view without legacy model view </edit> |
Post by theuns // May 14, 2009, 2:42am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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That actually sounds like a brilliant idea! trueSpace 7.5 on all new Windows machines!
It is freeware, so I don't see how it could pose any problems... |
Post by marcel // May 14, 2009, 2:47am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I never understood why MS bought TS. If this is to develop a tool for VE, a small software much simpler would have been better suited. If the acquisition of Caligari has no other purpose I don't understand the interest of MS. Perhaps MS was only interested by the programmers for other projects? TS is too complicated for an application (VE) supposed to be used by everyone. This acquisition comes at the worst possible time: TS was in the process of mutation and the hybrid version is incomprehensible to the uninitiated (99% of the target of VE). Without improvement centralized, TS will become a big bunch of plugins and scripts. The opposite of what I like: no line of code to type for create. This makes me think about how to work 20 years ago when we had to be a programmer to use software. There are people excited for these changes. I understand because I was doing the same thing to my beginnings. Now, as a user, I think differently: I do not need to be an expert mechanic to drive a car and I do not know how it works. The important thing is that the car works well. If one day the workspace is over, I use it with pleasure. I spent ages going back to school. I have things more interesting to do. My contribution is to provide some work to enhance opportunities for TS. I thank all amateur programmers who try to "finish" this fantastic software. This is free labor for MS. MS should at least be grateful. |
Post by Steinie // May 14, 2009, 2:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Sorry but it would be an anchor for Windows. What percent of Windows users even care about creating 3D? The trueSpace user is a minority. Try to explain 3D to an average person...let alone try to teach it. |
Post by marcel // May 14, 2009, 3:02am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Sorry but it would be an anchor for Windows. What percent of Windows users even care about creating 3D? The trueSpace user is a minority. Try to explain 3D to an average person...let alone try to teach it.
that's what I said about the users of VE in my last post. |
Post by Steinie // May 14, 2009, 3:22am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Marcel,
We posted at the same time. Great minds think a like!:)
Edit: Where are the Caligari entries this Month? |
Post by brotherx // May 14, 2009, 4:05am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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That actually sounds like a brilliant idea! trueSpace 7.5 on all new Windows machines!
It is freeware, so I don't see how it could pose any problems...
That would be sweet...of course the european parliament being as stupid as they are, they'd definitely have a problem...seriously take IE for example.
They want MS to remove it from their OS...fair enough. How are you supposed to get an alternative browser onto your PC if you don't have a browser to get it on there/download a replacement in the first place??
I think they see a quick buck to be made and don't care that the more money big companies pay out in fines, the more cutbacks they'll make to cover the cost, especially in todays climate.
They are so stupid... |
Post by Johny // May 14, 2009, 4:33am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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That would be sweet...of course the european parliament being as stupid as they are, they'd definitely have a problem...seriously take IE for example.
They want MS to remove it from their OS...fair enough. How are you supposed to get an alternative browser onto your PC if you don't have a browser to get it on there/download a replacement in the first place??
I think they see a quick buck to be made and don't care that the more money big companies pay out in fines, the more cutbacks they'll make to cover the cost, especially in todays climate.
They are so stupid...
If all OS version come without any intalled internet browse application, how can that OS user can go online for download alternative internet browse application? :D
I think european parliament are paranoid. :D
I'm myself used IE for download firefox and then always use firefox each I'm open internet. Firefox is my favorite browser. :) |
Post by prodigy // May 14, 2009, 5:19am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Firefox Rules :)
Im using a portable version of firefox. So i don't need to install it and i can access from my pendrive or from a shared folder from everycomputer..
I have all my bookmarks on every computer where i go.. try to do that wiht IE?
Other good point is Firefox follow the HTML standars, IE not..
Thats why Firefox IS the most used browser on the internet.;)
Flexible, light, fast, stable, free, opensource, portable... what else you need? |
Post by Finis // May 14, 2009, 5:25am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Prodigy notes that Firefox follows the standards. Yes! I use it to test my pages. IE will let me make mistakes but Firefox won't so I catch the errors with it.
I think they see a quick buck to be made and don't care that the more money big companies pay out in fines, the more cutbacks they'll make to cover the cost, Yes sir BrotherX. I wish Americans understood this type of thing. Any company not just big ones. Same with taxes on businesses too. |
Post by marcel // May 14, 2009, 6:03am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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A very little soft to navigate. Only one file, No install, no config, no cache and clean all trace when you close it. To Keep on your key. There is others look on their website.
200 ko |
Post by RAYMAN // May 14, 2009, 9:41am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Looking into the future isnt something bad and if we look into the future
we see lots of use for 3d content and enviroments not only
Virtual Earth and Google Earth.
That includes 3d shapes with new stereoscopic technology with new types of d3d stereo displays.
We can also be sure that Microsoft wants
to be on top of the development for OS.....
So Johny and I are pretty much the same opinion that some sort of 3d technology will be integrated into the OS and the browser....
Another thing that i am pretty sure of is that the people at Caligari that are now under the bigger roof dont get paid for nothing and run around doing nothing.
So we can be pretty sure that they are working on something... !
Would they want to say what they are doing if they want to stay ahead...?
I dont think they would want to....
Do they have to stop the Truespace project ?
Why should they ?
Lot of resources have flown into the development of Ts 7-7.6(1)
They let us use it free now and I dont think that it is a top priority
right now- thats my believe but I could be wrong with that.....
I just think that the most money is made with the masses and the everyday
users and not with a limited amount of people but that doesnt rule out that
it be wise to make some bigger steps with the development once it serves a use for the "3d for the masses " project....
I just had a look into my big local book and mags store...... there´s around 80
car mags and around 80 fashion mags and around 50 Photography and same sound mags etc. and that goes on and on but just 2 3d mags and 1 with both
film and 3d....
Just to get a look at the marketsegment and how many people are deeply into creating 3d...
I just think the development of Ts by Caligari will take longer but thats just my guessing
But thats also why Caligari give a top priority to helping 3d party developers
for Truespace plus a very deep sdk......
It could all be wrong what i said but its how i see it... |
Post by GraySho // May 14, 2009, 10:53am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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...But thats also why Caligari give a top priority to helping 3d party developers
for Truespace plus a very deep sdk......
...to give the userbase the opportunity to finish what Caligari doesn´t/didn´t or won´t do. It´s like they´ve built the foundation and the users are left with the tools to finish it. Like the last act before the big silence. Man, do I sound dramatic :D
Anyway, they are working on something for sure, the question is "what the heck is it?" |
Post by RAYMAN // May 14, 2009, 11:05am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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...to give the userbase the opportunity to finish what Caligari doesn´t/didn´t or won´t do. It´s like they´ve built the foundation and the users are left with the tools to finish it. Like the last act before the big silence. Man, do I sound dramatic :D
Anyway, they are working on something for sure, the question is "what the heck is it?"
From Austrian to Austrian....
"genau des wissn die Götter " (only the gods and Microsoft know that):p |
Post by TigreStripe // May 15, 2009, 1:19am
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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Anyway, they are working on something for sure, the question is "what the heck is it?"
Well. Perhaps it's...
MS. Truespace Starter Edition
MS. Truespace Home Premium
MS. Truespace Buisness Edition
MS. Truespace Ultimate
And of course...
MS. Truespace Home Server
MS. Truespace Server 2009.
MS. Truespace 3D Word (create your letters, banners, flyers in virtual space). Yadda yadda....
Was it so surprising or unexpected this would happen. It's Microsoft. Caligari might have had a policy of silence before the buy out but from reading old posts it seems they at least participated more on these forums. Not to mention updating the website more often.
Were they any less busy then than now? |
Post by v3rd3 // May 15, 2009, 6:17am
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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Maybe there are fewer of them on this job... |
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