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Cap. Blog update
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Cap. Blog update // Roundtable
Post by Asem // Dec 4, 2006, 11:19pm
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Asem
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This is awsome and it really seems to be coming along real nice (I really like the new scheme). Everything else is great as I had been wondering about the new material editor and now I get a look at it also looking for more scripting functions. Great job Caligari Team and Beta testers (I would say more but I'm holding off my excitement and that's hard lol):D
Sorry if this was too soon I almost wanted to say something later (Roman posted Dec 5 just to make sure you guys know it's recent). |
Post by prodigy // Dec 5, 2006, 3:20am
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I dont like The jumping rino.. :rolleyes: Yes, that show how easy you can work and see the resoults.. but I like to see a walkthrow, a tutorial how can easly you can attach the bones to the model.. things like this...
Yup the new scheme rules... The keyframe its amazing see how fast it works..
The displacent mapping its a nice tool too..
i have my doubts about the keyframe only work on the player side. I dont know if that make more trubles with the render engines or the bridge..
And i think that make older bones or animation plugins plugins non compatible.. like on the AniPak :(
*And i hope we can move on the player side with the same keys and mouse movements than the model to make this transition more easyly and gentle..
Best wishes.. |
Post by Steinie // Dec 5, 2006, 3:26am
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Prodigy, you brought up an interesting point. Are two bone systems going to co-exist or phase out the old in modeler 7.5? If they don't start phasing this stuff out the overhead is going to need liposuction!!!:rolleyes:
Roman, what the heck is "Incorrect background 25%...?" a debugging program or new feature? Also doesn't the row of icons at the top right not alligned with the left row bother you? Tabbing looks good, color scheme looks professional, status line makes me smile (doesn't take much) if you float cursor over an Icon have it's name showup on the status line for a second, displacement mapping using textures?, IK controls look great. Please keep controls from covering work in cases like point. editing. I notice the change view tabs are gone, I believe a Graysho recommendation. Less clutter is good. I see the dropdown menu is being utilized more.
Why is there a bigger ball on the right hand of Oliver Rohe's characters hand then the left? Greater influence or something? |
Post by TomG // Dec 5, 2006, 4:47am
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"but I like to see a walkthrow, a tutorial how can easly you can attach the bones to the model"
And you will, but this is a beta version and right now the testing and work is going on the code functionality, and not the presentation of the information. The work will go onto the documentation once the code is set and debugged and then people's time will be spent on doing more comprehensive and complete videos and tutorials.
The idea of the Captain's Blog though is to give you as much of a glimpse into things as is possible with what gets created for testing - this stuff is not created specifically for the Captain's Blog (the video in question was provided to beta testers so they can grasp some of what the tools do and can dive in and start testing and commenting on features and looking for bugs).
So please do not expect too much out of the Captain's Blog yet in terms of it being walk-throughs and tutorials :) You will get those, but once we get to them in the development schedule ;)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by stan // Dec 5, 2006, 6:00am
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Roman, what the heck is "Incorrect background 25%...?"
yes what does that mean..do we get the bright icons [the 100%] or those depressingly dark ones..hope that is all customizable..that's the dreariest looking interface I've ever seen..:( |
Post by stoker // Dec 5, 2006, 6:28am
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Looking from a distance the UI looks great but when i look at it closely and imagine using it i find it a real problem. It is far too dark, I sure hope it can be customized otherwise no upgrade for me...:( |
Post by Norm // Dec 5, 2006, 6:44am
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I believe "incorrect background..." is interface note on an image. If you look closely at the icons on that toolbar, left hand side is diff than the ones on right hand side and the text you read is indicating this. I imagine this image goes off to folks working on that aspect and the changes are made.
The spherical objects attached to bones are joints. The size of the joint's sphere is adjustable if you wish. The influence would be represented by the tubular objects surrounding a bone in images. |
Post by splinters // Dec 5, 2006, 6:50am
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Inactive icons in that shot are desaturated to 25% of full colour (more than at the moment) but you can see from a few brighter icons how they will look when the mouse moves over them. Actively selected icons would also have a brighter background as seen in the First Person Mode icon. It works well in practice.
I was hoping it would help users such as Stan and Stoker too as the icon, when hovered over, would effectively seem lit up...:o |
Post by stan // Dec 5, 2006, 6:50am
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Norm, what about the panels etc, are they customizable? ..the colour scheme is dreadful..it will stop me from upgrading in future ..
Splinters that hover over icon stuff is no so hot as a workflow ..bright when you look at them, not hover over them would be better |
Post by splinters // Dec 5, 2006, 6:53am
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Norm, what about the panels etc, are they customizable? ..the colour scheme is dreadful..it will stop me from upgrading in future ..
I believe UI scheme is near to final but I am not sure about customisation...still early days I guess Stan...;) |
Post by Steinie // Dec 5, 2006, 6:59am
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I know you can't answer this Splinters but having those settings in a config table so that users like Stan or Stoker can customize would be great. I wouldn't have a problem with what I saw but other users have different needs. |
Post by stan // Dec 5, 2006, 7:00am
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well if that is the colour scheme ..it may appeal to some, but from my point of view it's a very poor choice of colours if you see well or not..:( .. |
Post by Alien // Dec 5, 2006, 7:11am
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Displacement mapping is getting better.
It's good to see you've added an indicator to show the area affected by the tool. :cool:
Character editor is making progress too.
I'm also glad to see you've gone back to the cream/brown colour scheme for the bones, as opposed to the garish blue/green in a previous post, or are the colours dependant on some form of useage context?
Animation Editor also makes good progress. This video is again by one of our developers and it still shows light colors, which will soon be replaced by darker ones. Function curves interpolation on this video are linear but splines are coming. Dope sheet and FC editor is pretty capable already.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/disbelieve.gif Waitasec, did I just see a r/click copy/paste menu in trueSpace? I must have somehow fallen into a parallel universe! :eek: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/justkidding.gif
All kidding aside, it's good to see that you are [hopefully] making a bit more use of some Windows conventions. I hope the r/click edit menu will also be enabled for all places that accept text/numeric input? [especially the LE]
I like the look of the function curve editor, looks like it might be both useful and easy to use. :cool:
And i think that make older bones or animation plugins plugins non compatible.. like on the AniPak :(
As someone said in another thread, the idea is that the new tools should mean that you won't need those old tools anymore.
status line makes me smile
Status line? Where? :confused:
Please keep controls from covering work in cases like point. editing.
Have to agree with this point.
I don't have a problem with the colour scheme myself, but I can see how others might. |
Post by Steinie // Dec 5, 2006, 7:17am
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Alien, look at the bottom left of the screen. |
Post by Alien // Dec 5, 2006, 7:42am
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Alien, look at the bottom left of the screen.
Ah yes, I see it now, thanks.
Roman, it might be a good idea if you were to use .png files instead of .jpg. It might mean larger file sizes, but the image would be clearer, especially the text.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/7-11_screenshot-png.png |
Post by Jack Edwards // Dec 5, 2006, 9:28am
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I really like the new color scheme! It feels much more polished and professional. Maybe even expensive... lol! :D
I hope we'll be able to set sharp and smooth corners at the key frame points in the FCurve editor (independently for entering and exiting the keyframe) as well as whether or not tS should do a linear or spline interpolation. It does look like a nice clean interface though, which is very encouraging! :)
The material info windows look interesting too.
I'd have to say that in general the interface is looking much cleaner. I wonder if 7.5 is using context specific icon bars?
Keep up the good work!
-Jack. |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 5, 2006, 9:59am
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The status line doesn't need a title bar. That wastes space.
What's wrong with the old paradigm, ala 'Help Bar'; where you toggle it on or off as part of the tS window frame?
'If it ain't broke...', and all that. |
Post by roman // Dec 5, 2006, 2:30pm
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I really like the new color scheme! It feels much more polished and professional. Maybe even expensive... lol! :D That was the whole idea, to make it look more expensive:) Actualy the idea was to make UI recede and make your 3D artwork come more into focus. I think it works well during normal workflow.
Alas I see a lot of people complaining. Perhaps we can add also a lighter look. Honestly, with TS7.0 our layouts are infinitely customizable but we found no one actualy cared so much about that, everyone just wants to use Default. In TS7.5 Default will be pretty good, No LE, just a small, one track animation window at the bottom.
I hope we'll be able to set sharp and smooth corners at the key frame points in the FCurve editor (independently for entering and exiting the keyframe) as well as whether or not tS should do a linear or spline interpolation. It does look like a nice clean interface though, which is very encouraging! :) Smooth corners and splines are being added this week. |
Post by Alien // Dec 5, 2006, 2:40pm
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That was the whole idea, to make it look more expensive:) Actualy the idea was to make UI recede and make your 3D artwork come more into focus. I think it works well during normal workflow.
I do like the look of it, at least from the screenshots, but it's hard to make a proper judgement without actually using it, so I'll have to wait until you relase it to proTeam. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/poke.gif :D
Alas I see a lot of people complaining. Perhaps we can add also a lighter look.
Yeah, sounds like a good idea - sort of like skins or themes for other progs.
Honestly, with TS7.0 our layouts are infinitely customizable but we found no one actualy cared so much about that, everyone just wants to use Default. In TS7.5 Default will be pretty good, No LE, just a small, one track animation window at the bottom.
I have the LE open, just not docked, & have it minimised when not in use. That reminds me, bug report to file... |
Post by Asem // Dec 5, 2006, 2:46pm
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Isn't it possible to customize the scheme? It seems that it's embeded into the program so why not just have them out in the open(ts folder like the icons)? At one point I was looking really hard to find a way to change the scheme (lucky for me you guys changed it and I like it as I would have made it things dark also) going through almost every file including the xml files (Found a good amount of scripting things in there and how to use them to some extent). |
Post by stan // Dec 5, 2006, 3:59pm
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Alas I see a lot of people complaining. Perhaps we can add also a lighter look. Honestly, with TS7.0 our layouts are infinitely customizable but we found no one actualy cared so much about that, everyone just wants to use Default.
Thanks Roman for considering a lighter look option.:banana: . why don't you let the windows schemes work ..then you can change it to what suits you individually..or just make TS7.5 customizable period , with colours too..
I use the customizing of the interface..I never use default ..and many people are too intimidated to even try to customize ..there are many issues with toolbars when you customize too..that needs work |
Post by Nichod // Dec 6, 2006, 9:01am
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One thing that still concerns me as far as purchasing is whether TS will look clean and even run on my system.
AMD Turion ML-40 2gigs RAM 128 MB DDR ATI 200M dedicated RAM
Mainly the video card is my question.
Also, I wonder on the flexibility of the rigs. Facial animation for me is usually done via rigging and I question whether TS can do this. |
Post by splinters // Dec 6, 2006, 10:22am
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You should be OK with that setup. I can run TS on my laptop (celeron 1.4M) 512mb Ram, ATi 9000 IGP.
Alright, I have no shadows with that or fancy effects but I can do my work on it just fine. |
Post by JPSofCA // Dec 6, 2006, 10:43am
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Honestly, with TS7.0 our layouts are infinitely customizable but we found no one actualy cared so much about that, everyone just wants to use Default.
As far as using the defaults goes, it seemed that with all the clutter in the stack made it feel as though you were obligated to clean up after somebody else - like moving into a slum after an eviction where the tennant left dirty socks and underwear strewn about (base objects libraries filled with dinosaurs and king tut heads and the like - these would act as a base to what kind of derived object?)...I would much rather move into an empty space than clean up after someone, then you can figure out where everything's going to go so you can get to enjoying the new Space right away. Those items might look fine in a tutorials, or samples group but not in "base objects".
With the stack you couldn't collapse sub panels by clicking on their header, nor could you close stack groups by pushing the button as the manual described (and as one would intuitively expect to be able to do). When you start up trueSpace with an empty stack and go to open one from the main tool buttons, you'd have to choose from the flyout menu in order for one to open, and when you did that they would ALL spring open like the snakes out of a novelty can of nuts!
It's not that I don't want to customize, it's that I don't want to have to clean up and organize what appears (to me at least) to be a cluttered mess, and then set up base objects (spheres, cubes and all that) and other items, then save it to a library, and then hope that it gets retrieved intact.
Also most of us were expecting an update a little sooner that we were likely expecting would have taken care of most of that, by the way.
Anyway, just to let Caligari know the effort isn't going unnoticed nor is/will it go unutilized...it's kind of like 7.5, we [some of us] just haven't got around to doing it yet. Updates are looking good though, keep up the good work! :) |
Post by stan // Dec 6, 2006, 12:56pm
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http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Bring back the ability to maximise toolbars
I must admit I never liked maximized toolbars. There it is I am admiting this openly. The reason was that many TS reviewers maximized all toolbars to show their readers all TS Icons thus entirely covering actual 3D workspace with 2 D Icons. I am a big advocate of direct 3D manipulation and I hated those screen grabs which "ruined" the simplicity of TS perspective View.
However! There is no reason to be religious and not to allow maximized toolbars if you guys realy want it. It seems to me that majority spoke already. TS7 2D UI will be improved next month when V-Ray1.0 will ship so we could fix this and a few other unfinished Icon issues like Frame number field and scrubber which was omited from Animation toolbar.
here is one thing I sure hope has not been forgotten and has been done for ts7.5..because at this point having less functionality that ts6.6 toolbars is not progress..it's loss of workflow to many of us.. |
Post by Alien // Dec 6, 2006, 6:27pm
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Alien
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As far as using the defaults goes, it seemed that with all the clutter in the stack made it feel as though you were obligated to clean up after somebody else - like moving into a slum after an eviction where the tennant left dirty socks and underwear strewn about (base objects libraries filled with dinosaurs and king tut heads and the like - these would act as a base to what kind of derived object?)...I would much rather move into an empty space than clean up after someone, then you can figure out where everything's going to go so you can get to enjoying the new Space right away. Those items might look fine in a tutorials, or samples group but not in "base objects".
Absolutely agree with this.
With the stack you couldn't collapse sub panels by clicking on their header, nor could you close stack groups by pushing the button as the manual described (and as one would intuitively expect to be able to do).
It's funny you mention that, I could have sworn it had that at 1 point, then I noticed the ability to do that wasn't there, even though it should be. Maybe I was wrong. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif
It's not that I don't want to customize, it's that I don't want to have to clean up and organize what appears (to me at least) to be a cluttered mess, and then set up base objects (spheres, cubes and all that) and other items, then save it to a library, and then hope that it gets retrieved intact.
I mightn't have put it quite like that, but I have to agree.
Also most of us were expecting an update a little sooner that we were likely expecting would have taken care of most of that, by the way.
True. :(
here is one thing I sure hope has not been forgotten and has been done for ts7.5..because at this point having less functionality that ts6.6 toolbars is not progress..it's loss of workflow to many of us..
Couldn't agree more. What would also be nice would be the ability to customise a layout without having 1 or more toolbars just fail to appear when you next load your saved layout. I now have 2 that have gone A.W.O.L. I could probably get them back by reinstalling tS, but then they [or other toolbars] would just disappear when I tried to make a customised layout again, so there's not really any point. :( Luckily I don't need either of them [1 with Player's undo, & the Model 1 with bones & skinning on it] at the moment. |
Post by Tiles // Dec 6, 2006, 10:44pm
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Honestly, with TS7.0 our layouts are infinitely customizable but we found no one actualy cared so much about that, everyone just wants to use Default.
I do. And i highly doubt that i am the only one. But i had a one week battle to customize just modeler window.
Also when you are new to a software your first few weeks and months is more to figure out how everything works. And herefore the standard layout is best. Manual describes all the things at the Standard layout. Bad idea to customize TS to your needs and don't understand anything because in the manual everything looks different. Customizing and optimizing workflow is a task when you are familiar with the software :) |
Post by rj0 // Dec 7, 2006, 1:07pm
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I do. And i highly doubt that i am the only one. But i had a one week battle to customize just modeler window.
Also when you are new to a software your first few weeks and months is more to figure out how everything works. And herefore the standard layout is best. Manual describes all the things at the Standard layout. Bad idea to customize TS to your needs and don't understand anything because in the manual everything looks different. Customizing and optimizing workflow is a task when you are familiar with the software :)
Quite right!
rj |
Post by Asem // Dec 8, 2006, 2:07pm
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I just remembered something about going into the material nodes within an object that really has vray materials. Will they actually be vray nodes (instead of the node saying it's lightworks when it's not) with maybe some kinda programmability like how Super lightworks shaders are? Do the Super lightworks work? Is there a layer system for the vray materials now? Hopefully all these work since you guys are moving vray to the player side. |
Post by roman // Dec 10, 2006, 11:09am
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It's not that I don't want to customize, it's that I don't want to have to clean up and organize what appears (to me at least) to be a cluttered mess, and then set up base objects (spheres, cubes and all that) and other items, then save it to a library, and then hope that it gets retrieved intact.I guess I was asking for this with my ill thought post:) But sometimes even a poor post can generate valuable response, like this one. We will clean up Stack libraries for 7.5, it is easy to move example objects to Tutorial library or even to our Web Content pages. It will make install much smaller too.
Disappearing custom toolbars is another matter, which we plan to solve for TS7.5 too. |
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