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VRay and TS7.5?
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VRay and TS7.5? // Roundtable
Post by parva // Feb 22, 2007, 12:01pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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@Paul - from my personal view - only if you want to render indoor scenes, it makes sense to buy vray for truespace now.
Besides from global illumination capabilities (which will be enhanced a bit in the next upgrade with an alternative gi engine), caustics, and some new materials like glossiness reflections, fresnel, everything else can be done in lightworks.
The material system is also the weakest point of vray (not just for trueSpace, the original vray has also a very pure material system, this just changed currently with the new material sdk).
Virtualight is imho no alternative (no offense agains Mr. Marty, I also buyed his rendered)... maybe the chromatic dispersion which can add some more realism to caustics but everything else is... ehäm ;) not worth a comparison.
Finally I'm not really happy about the vray integration. Maybe that it change in the future. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Feb 22, 2007, 12:09pm
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Virtuaout came with the wonderfully titled Vomat shader..out of curiosity, are there any shaders geared towards Virtualight built in now? |
Post by GraySho // Feb 22, 2007, 2:58pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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I agree that vray works very well (looking at some gallery images) for certain tasks, like product vizualisation or indoor renderings. But that's just a small section of the CG cake. The limitations of the material system is a very important point. From what I've read and seen, you can't use specular maps for example, layered materials don't seem to work, existing shader plugins don't work. For me it's no replacement of Lightworks at it's present status, so I won't invest money until that changes. It's been proven that Lightworks can produce spectacular renderings, and a good knowlege about lighting is always helpful, no matter which renderer you use. GI just does some work for you, but it's not the "create awesome scene with one button" solution ;) |
Post by prodigy // Feb 22, 2007, 3:21pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Lets start again.... :rolleyes: |
Post by nowherebrain // Feb 23, 2007, 4:21am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Another couple of points
1) Although it has not been mentioned the next release of the LW renderer supports GI through FG(final gather, like mental ray), and may be updated for tS7.5.(but I have no real idea)
2)VL(virtuaLight) is slow...has issues with the gamma and is a bit more technical than Vray,.....realism / time ratio is better on the Vray side(excluding price)
3) You make the renderer, not the other way aropund....
4) When tS ver 8.0 is released, we do not know if this will cause the current rendition of Vray to cease working....thus forcing another purchase or upgrade just for Vray...
5) this is the number after 4. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 23, 2007, 7:49am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Nobody can change my mind.. Vray is unfinished .. i know.. need more work from the caligary team.. But.. im realy happy... I know lot of illumination..thanks for ligthworks.. but now i can apply all my knowladge on Vray and with speed..
Its singnificant the speed render!! 40% more faster than Lightworks and in other cases more.. Translate that Percent on a animation!??!?!?!
You can reduce hours of rendering time!
You get a better work in a short time.. I see what Lightworks are doing and i like too.. if that be implemented on ts?? better..
Best Regards... |
Post by Steinie // Feb 23, 2007, 8:36am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Any Professional TS user out there would definitely know time is money!!!
I know it's an old saying but very true. If you are paid by the rendering wouldn't you want a faster renderer? If you were competing for work wouldn't you want to have the same quality as the competition?
I'm just agreeing with Prodigy, been there done that....
Lightworks can create some Professional looking works but you'd be in the poor house trying to compete. Somebody mentioned Buzz, why do you think he moved on? |
Post by GraySho // Feb 23, 2007, 12:52pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Lightworks can create some Professional looking works but you'd be in the poor house trying to compete. Somebody mentioned Buzz, why do you think he moved on?
I seem to remember that he took a break from 3D, not moving on to some other software or renderer. I also think he was using tS4.3 for quite a long time, although there were newer versions out at that time. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to use VRay, but in it's current form it's not conforming my requirements. It's like buying a car for it's top speed and it's showcase look, but there's more than that. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 24, 2007, 3:19am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I like the 78 Corvette... its a old American Muscle "Fashion" car, has a very good top speed but here is very expensive.. :(
Vray is not expensive... :D
I told in other post.. If you work with truespace?? Vray is a preaty tool.. if you are hobiest, maybe with lightworks its enough.. but remember vray its AMAZING!!
VOTE FOR VRAY!! VOTE FOR VRAY!!
JAjajjaja :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 24, 2007, 3:45am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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This has developed into an interesting discussion - so much so that I felt moved to add my own thoughts. ;)
Let me say firstly that 3d graphics is purely a hobby for me - if I had to make a living from it then it would stop being fun and become a job - currently I aim to please nobody but myself and therefore I'm free to do things my own way. This is not a comment on anyone elses needs and methods, just another way of thinking about things.
I started 3d using Anim8or - it was free, and an excellent teaching tool for a total novice. (It also has better bones than tS but that's soon to change with 7.5).
Anim8or was pretty easy to use but I needed something more - thus I discovered ts 3.2 and the wonderful vibrancy of it's LightWorks renderer. The way this renderer handles light and shadow is (for me anyway) a defining characteristic of what makes trueSpace the great software it is. For me rendering with Vray (or Virtualight for that matter) is nothing more than an interesting exercise and it's not really trueSpace.
I build models with tS modeling tools and export the model into Vue and render a picture then I'm rendering a Vue image of a tS model. Same thing with Vray and Virtualight - I can make a tS model and render it with Vray but it becomes a Vray render of a tS model. The same thing applies to realtime renders from tS 7's 'player' side. To me none of these renders are 'true' trueSpace renders because in my mind I associate tS renders with LightWorks.
Of course it's all different strokes for different folks but I see a Vray render and whilst I can appreciate it's inherent artistry and technical skill it's not a 'tS render' in my mind. At the end of the day though it is important that the individual knows what his intended outcome is - if it's to produce photorealistic limages of indoor environments then Vray may well be a better and/or faster solution (and judging from the comments posted here, it is). But produce a photo realistic image of an indoor environment with the LW renderer and I will be considerably more impressed with the artist.
The Vray renders (and realtime renders from tS7) that I've seen to date all lack a certain 'LightWorks" quality about them and to mind they do not quite measure up. Pepsi is not Coke and, as satisfying as Pepsi is, it's not "the real thing".
WZRD
"THERE IS NO REALITY, ONLY PERCEPTION" |
Post by prodigy // Feb 24, 2007, 4:18am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Here in Uruguay by far Coke is the best.. :D
DRINK COKE |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 24, 2007, 9:12am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Sorry, I've been away for a few days and have only just got back to this thread. Thanks very much for all the info, points of view, pro's and con's and in particulary, the pics!
For me, TrueSpace is a hobby too though I do use it for my own gaming and application software development. I'm not in what you would class as a high wage bracket. For example, I'm estimating that TrueSpace 7.5 will cost me around €400 odd to make the move up from 5.1 and it took me weeks and weeks to save that money. An additional €300 odd on top of it may not be a lot of money to some, but to me it's a huge sum of money.
One argument that someone raised in a recent post above is about what will happen when TrueSpace 8 ships? Of course, if I make the jump up to 7.5, I most likely won't do so again till about TrueSpace 10 or 11 hits the shelf! But this argument is one I've also wondered about? If I invest €300 odd in Vray, how future proof is that investiment? I know from the superb business model Caligari use that I'll probably get a discount on upgrading Vray if need be when I do a future upgrade of TrueSpace, but it's still a good point of view.
With no release date yet given for TrueSpace 7.5, what I'm going to do is start putting a bit of extra cash into my savings for making the upgrade. I've seen and read enough to be convinced that Vray has a lot on offer. When 7.5 becomes available, I'll see what the marketing of it and Vray have to say and where it sits price-wise, and where I am savings-wise. If I like what I see (and I do already), and the pricing is not too restrictive, I'll take the plunge.
Thanks, everyone. Appreciate all the input. |
Post by Bobbins // Feb 24, 2007, 11:37pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Anim8or was pretty easy to use but I needed something more - thus I discovered ts 3.2 and the wonderful vibrancy of it's LightWorks renderer.
Just a small correction - tS3.2 used the R+ render engine. LightWorks wasn't used until tS4.0. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 25, 2007, 5:32am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Just a small correction - tS3.2 used the R+ render engine. LightWorks wasn't used until tS4.0.
LOL! Is that right? Thanks for the correction Bobbins even if it does shoot my arguement down in flames (well just a little anyway!
I still like the way that LightWorks handles colour - rather than Pepsi vs Coke perhaps a better metaphor would be Kodak versus Fuji Film - I just generally prefer the Fuji 'look'. |
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