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First Collaboration Team
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
First Collaboration Team // Roundtable
Post by Cayenne // Mar 13, 2007, 3:34am
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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Hi , an empty space has been prepared on the trueSpace7.1 server so that members of this team who are using trueSpace7 version can access a unified space for collaborative purposes.
You can access the portal by locating the network node in the LE and make sure that DefServer is set to tsportal.caligari.com
and DefServerPort is set to 1209.
Once you enter the shared space there is a link from the Main Portal to the room.
Currently this space will be accessible by all people who have tS7 , but I can make the room more private and give the access and the port number just to members of the team if it becomes a problem with the scene being interfered with too much.
The space can serve as a middle staging ground to aid in the preparation of the scene prior to making it available for truePlace purpose.
the initial Space can also be termed as a hub which provides an overview of the available areas which can branch from the main scene into other "rooms" accessible through doorways "links" to the other spaces, this will help to maintain integrity with initial download sizes.
Any participants who cannot access the shared spaces due to not having tS7 will have to send thier objects and contributions to a member of the project who will then be able to place the content or object to the server.
There are current restrictions on the access to the 7.1 server as it cannot be accessed using trueplay also there is no FPN or voice chat available there so chat communication or skype could be used.
Cacheing of objects is not implemented on the 7.1 server so each visit to the space will require the download of the individual object.
When there is a presentable version I will place the scene on the trueplace server but only allow for Team access so that members who do not have tS7 will be able to visit the project using truePlay to see how the project is progressing and also to give comments and suggestions.
the truplace version can also be updated as the project progresses , currently however there is only access to there using trueplay so no content authoring can be done live, this will change after the release of 7.5 version in the future.
When any objects are finalised , in a complete state , if the project manager will let me know then I can mark the objects so they cannot be manipulated any further.
I' ll also look and see if there are any optimisations in files sizes and materials that can be done to prepare the scenes for trueplay/ dx9 render .
Some tips you may already be aware of for realtime shared space scenes.
Keep geometry and texture sizes down to a minimum but not to the detriment of the intended realtime output.
If you aim for approx 3- 6mb maximum per scene section for overall scene size then it will be better , if you can get a good looking scene for a smaller size then it would be even better, this will not be a problem on the trueplay server as caching is available there .
Try not to Nest the objects into very deep hierachies .
Make sure as part of the project management that someone oversees and saves the scene in stages to thier local machine .
If there are any questions that cannot be answered by any other members of the team , please ask away.
I'll try my best to aid and assist in this project in any way I can.
thank you
Paul |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 13, 2007, 8:08am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Bravo Paul :banana: |
Post by Emmanuel // Mar 13, 2007, 8:13am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Some tips you may already be aware of for realtime shared space scenes.
Keep geometry and texture sizes down to a minimum but not to the detriment of the intended realtime output.
If you aim for approx 3- 6mb maximum per scene section for overall scene size then it will be better , if you can get a good looking scene for a smaller size then it would be even better, this will not be a problem on the trueplay server as caching is available there .
Try not to Nest the objects into very deep hierachies .
Make sure as part of the project management that someone oversees and saves the scene in stages to thier local machine .
I would add a few suggestions :
Try to encapsulate the lights of the scene. This helps a lot as it locks the lights, and allows for easy lights setup replacement.
Set the lights radius to zero : this makes the lights invisible and almost unselectable unless you pick them in the LE.
Try to limit the textures size to 512*512, and use the jpg format : this is an online project and every byte to download is seconds of waiting.
Be aware that single face objects just render one face. Also, planes from tS6.6/Modeler get triangulated and it can produce flickering/artefacts effects in truePlay. |
Post by Délé // Mar 13, 2007, 10:22am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Sweet! Thanks for setting up the space Paul! :D :banana: :banana: Also thanks to both you and Emmanuel for the suggestions! :D :banana: |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 13, 2007, 2:47pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi , an empty space has been prepared on the trueSpace7.1 server so that members of this team who are using trueSpace7 version can access a unified space for collaborative purposes.
The space can serve as a middle staging ground to aid in the preparation of the scene prior to making it available for truePlace purpose.
When there is a presentable version I will place the scene on the trueplace server but only allow for Team access so that members who do not have tS7 will be able to visit the project using truePlay to see how the project is progressing and also to give comments and suggestions.
the truplace version can also be updated as the project progresses , currently however there is only access to there using trueplay so no content authoring can be done live, this will change after the release of 7.5 version in the future.
When any objects are finalised , in a complete state , if the project manager will let me know then I can mark the objects so they cannot be manipulated any further.
I' ll also look and see if there are any optimisations in files sizes and materials that can be done to prepare the scenes for trueplay/ dx9 render .
Some tips you may already be aware of for realtime shared space scenes.
Keep geometry and texture sizes down to a minimum but not to the detriment of the intended realtime output.
If you aim for approx 3- 6mb maximum per scene section for overall scene size then it will be better , if you can get a good looking scene for a smaller size then it would be even better, this will not be a problem on the trueplay server as caching is available there .
Try not to Nest the objects into very deep hierachies .
Make sure as part of the project management that someone oversees and saves the scene in stages to thier local machine .
If there are any questions that cannot be answered by any other members of the team , please ask away.
I'll try my best to aid and assist in this project in any way I can.
thank you
Paul
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
5 Banannas Paul... certainly no less!
:jumpy: Wow !!!:jumpy:
I am absolutely astonished at the speed and scope of this new development!!! Im tickled pink :p that Team Caligari takes this all so well!!!
As for you Paul... I'll be preparing "Ashington Place" as a little TruePlace architectural treat inside this ISS somewhere just for making our day like this!
And as for Roman's potential support of this "trueTeam" (Prodigy's excellent term) Collaboration Team, it appears all doubts have been soundly laid to rest by this amazing announcement.
Awesome... simply awesome.
Thank you all sincerely.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 13, 2007, 3:21pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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OK folks...
Well, much more than OK now... :jumpy:
I just spent the last couple of hours re-reading and copying every message in this thread to my hard drive (and to my amazement) for offline reference so I can respond and address each of you and each of your points one on one... mano e mano, in a later post sometime tomorrow.
Suffice it to say here briefly, there were MANY points made by you all earlier which I simply hadn't noticed but which were truly brilliant. I WILL be getting to each of them.
I also discovered to my utter disbelief that the space station design I submitted in fact looks very suspiciously similar to a design/model ALREADY submitted here by Matski007... one which (if I weren't the idiot I am) I SHOULD HAVE already seen before making that model! Perhaps Matski and I saw the same Star Trek Station he referred to in his post, I don't know, all I know is that I started with a circle and ended up with what it became!
Anyhow... W!ZARD had some absolutely fascinating input on all this overall design stuff as did many of you, and it seems to me at least that I and others jumped into modeling this without taking some of these great ideas into deeper consideration first.
As you can see, whatever design we want to create can be hammered out quickly... that ISS model I made took 3 modeling hours and and another 2 hours for texturing and rendering. Interiors can be more elaborate though, and may take me from a day to a week depending on complexity.
I am still not convinced we have arrived at a stage where the work can be parted out yet though. I believe 5 more days on general design discussion and posts / alterations should be considered before WE ALL decide a poll is in order. I understand that the idea is to do all this swiftly, but as Paul said in regard to texturing (and I especially believe this truly applies to design as well), "not to the detriment of the intended realtime output."
Your thoughts everyone?
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 13, 2007, 3:50pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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I would add a few suggestions :
Try to encapsulate the lights of the scene. This helps a lot as it locks the lights, and allows for easy lights setup replacement.
Set the lights radius to zero : this makes the lights invisible and almost unselectable unless you pick them in the LE.
Try to limit the textures size to 512*512, and use the jpg format : this is an online project and every byte to download is seconds of waiting.
Be aware that single face objects just render one face. Also, planes from tS6.6/Modeler get triangulated and it can produce flickering/artefacts effects in truePlay.
Hi emmanuel,
it appears you have considerable knowledge of the TruePlace technical environment so I have a question i hope you can answer...
I created a model here (actually a model and two sub-models) which could be integral to the final design of this ISS station and would be best to animate as they are used to simulate a partical field for transport to various TruePlace destinations within and outside this ISS station.
My question is, does TruePlace support animated textures such as a ".gif" format animation?
If so, this would dramatically cut the polycount to simply render animated gif images as strategically placed textures into varous transport areas... like walking into an animated render of the transport field rather than an actual polygonal model of it.
If not gif-format animations, are any other type of animations supported in TruePlace?
Thanks...
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Mar 13, 2007, 4:40pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I know you directed that question at Emmanuel but if I may, animated textures are not supported in the real-time environment. I did make a texture animation script a while back but the D3D texture nodes are so deep it bogs down. It does work pretty good with a projector lights texture. That might still be too taxing for an online scene though, we'd have to try it.
There are other possibilities for effects. We could possibly use textured planes and write a script to create a procedurally animated particle effect. Or possibly even use the Texture Animator script with a projector light to give some interesting visual lighting effects (if it's not too taxing on the scene).
As for animating, I think we'll have to stick to procedural animation, which isn't really a bad thing. It can lend itself to more interactivity and can generate new animation continuously without looping.
With a little ingenuity, we should be able to get some cool effects and interactivity should we decide to incorporate such things. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 13, 2007, 7:47pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Well Dudes.. im working right now on the Trueblue's design.. Im starting to make the correct dimentions because when i came to the scene i see ibrents whas the only one in there.... (good joke) heheh
Will we post the separated objects to model soon..
If anybody wants to help me right now.. thats be great.. :) |
Post by prodigy // Mar 14, 2007, 4:58am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Tonight i work at 5am local time with Trueblue on the ISS (Yes now i know ISS is the same as the REAL ISS.. If you wanna will change to TSISS) Guess what is TS ;)
We work lot but we progress to much i think, the base its finished.. and the spaces for the interior.. later im gonna send up the last scene to anybody looks (If you dont have TS7.11)
Then we gonna cut the TSISS.. Best Regards..
BTW Tonight nop.. is Yesterday... hehehehe because i wake up 3 hours later.. 8)
?=?? mm You know what i mean..... |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 14, 2007, 7:11am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Prodigy: I think we should have several more Collaborations and with more teamUsers first before anything. There are some problems with the design as is. |
Post by Délé // Mar 14, 2007, 7:42am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I haven't looked at your guys progress yet but after I left yesterday I loaded it into truePlay. There is enough room to move around but I think it would be better if it was much bigger. |
Post by Délé // Mar 14, 2007, 7:52am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Ok, I just checked out the newer version. Nice work guys. :) I loaded it into truePlay and ran around inside it. I think the corridors are a good size but I think it would be nice if the pods were much more spacious. Right now it's a little confining, which would probably be more realistic of a space station but since we are not limited by real life, it would be nice to have some elbow room. :) |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 14, 2007, 8:54am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Yes a whole lot bigger. Also I was thinking that most windows should not be textured but cut out (Faces deleted). Could save alot in file size. What do you think? |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 14, 2007, 9:40am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Would one of you guys see about getting together a base model and put it on a Sticky for this forum, that way the most recent base model will always be available at the top of the forum and all users will always know where to go to grab it... good idea?
I'm interested in playing around and seeing what I can do to help.
Thanks for the help, this project is a VERY cool thing!
Rich |
Post by prodigy // Mar 14, 2007, 11:59am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Rich.. yeap.. thats the idea.. anybody with or without TS7 can modeling and share their work.. 8)
True.. Again, idont have any problem if anybody want make the whole model more bigger..
Dele.. Remember the corridors gonna be from Glass...
Like this from the aquarium but outer space 8)
4852 |
Post by hemulin // Mar 14, 2007, 12:04pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Rich.. yeap.. thats the idea.. anybody with or without TS7 can modeling and share their work.. 8)
True.. Again, idont have any problem if anybody want make the whole model more bigger..
Dele.. Remember the corridors gonna be from Glass...
Like this from the aquarium but outer space 8)
4852
Yeah, some nice realtime reflections would be good |
Post by Methusela // Mar 14, 2007, 1:12pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I've been to that aquarium; it's the Georgia Aquarium down in Atlanta. If you think that tunnel's cool, try searching for the giant glass viewing window! I like the idea though! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 15, 2007, 9:07am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Ok folks, back again...
...as I indicated to you all in a previous post here I have copied all the text from this entire thread to disk and intend to reply to each of you one-on-one regarding the many truly outstanding ideas you have already voiced here.
I had originally intended to have that response posted here by the end of yesterday but found in the interim that 8+ hours into preparing it there were other related developments here in this thread which were ticking me off to the point that the distraction was simply too much to contend with. I still intend to proceed with that detailed response to each of you but it will soon occur within a new thread here at the Roundtable.
I do have great news for you all though, I'm almost done preparing a brand new model for all of you!!! :D
No, I'm not talking about a 3D model... I'm referring to an entirely new organizational model for an entirely new kind of 3D Collaboration Team here at the Roundtable. I expect the existing team started here in this thread will continue and there will undoubtedly be cross-membership among the teams which is fine. I simply believe I have a few good ideas on a some better ways of doing things than that which is currently in place within this thread.
I'll be posting a new thread here at the Roundtable on this tonight, but suffice it to say here briefly that this new kind of 3D Collaboration Team I envision is one in which each member who joins and who is willing to contribute their own time and talents toward in some way will have completely equal power in terms of the entire scope, direction, and selection of all key leadership positions as well as the entire direction and scope of numerous simultaneous projects. Commercially viable sub-projects may also be possible to "spin off" among teams outside the scope of this Forum as well.
Projects, Sub-Teams, and Project Leaders will all be completely open for suggestion at anytime by anyone willing to participate, and will all be subject to the same (non-poll) majority member votes cast to 5 days or consensus.
Do you have a particular concept or specialized talent you would like some truly talented and truly collaborative peers to develop with you? Would you like to "show us how something really should" be done?
If so, this simply-structured / truly Democratic environment should provide us all with ample opportunity to develop any trueSpace-related collaborative effort you may envision, and to do so with the equal input of every peer in your new 3D Collaborative Team.
I hope a few of you will choose to join me in this but I'm also prepared to start it from scratch. In any case, I choose quality over speed every time, and choices as to management and direction are never exceptions.
See you all later tonight... ;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Steinie // Mar 15, 2007, 9:35am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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3dvisuals dude, not to be a wet rag but shouldn't your last post be in a new thread? You almost sound like a Politician with reference to your new project being better or better run then this one. I think it is great wanting to start another project but didn't you post tons of "Your Ideas" here AFTER the poll was posted?
This started out as Prodigy's suggestion and others joined in with their ideas. Unless there is some emails flying around I don't know why your doing this. |
Post by Délé // Mar 15, 2007, 10:56am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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3dvisuals dude: I'm sorry that you don't feel like your designs are being accepted. You do have some fantastic ideas and you're an excellent artist. I guess I kind of got the feeling that you came in here expecting everyone to jump behind your ideas. At least that's the impression I got from your posts. You yourself admitted that you hadn't even read through the earlier posts by others. I guess I kind of got the impression that you were trying to take over rather then participate. It might be little (for lack of a better word) arrogant to come into a project and completely ignore everyone else's posts and ideas and think that everyone will drop what they're doing and follow you instead. We had already voted when you posted some of your ideas. No one said that changes can't be made, but instead of expecting everyone to drop what doing and follow you, you might try lending your ideas to add to the design already in progress. Also, you have to remember that while truePlay is a cool real-time environment, there are limitations and some of your ideas (while great) would be difficult to implement. I know that you don't have tS7 so I would suggest downloading truePlay (if you haven't already) and check out some of the cool spaces Emmanuel created here (http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts7/Brochure/truePlaces.asp). That would give you some idea as to some of the limitations and would perhaps spur other ideas too.
I do understand that the design was chosen quickly. My guess is that Prodigy wanted to get things going so the project wouldn't fizzle out, as these things often do. However there is no time limit to the construction phase and I see no reason why alterations can't be made if an idea pops up that everyone agrees would be good to implement.
I hope that you don't take what I say too hard. You do seem like a nice guy and like I said earlier, you have many great ideas. It would be nice if you would stay on board and lend some of your creativity to the design in progress. If not, I do wish you luck with your own project and look forward to seeing what you come up with. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 15, 2007, 11:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Young bull to old bull, "Hey, lets run down the hill, jump over the fence and make love to a few of those cows!"
Old bull to young bull, "No son. Lets walk down the hill, stroll through the gate and make love to ALL those cows!!
*******
No shortage of enthusism, no shortage of talent, definitely no shortage of vision but I do see a shortage of an overall unifying vision here. Obviously that has yet to emerge and be clearly defined but from what I see here this project is still at the brainstorming stage.
The logical approach as far as I can see is to collect ALL the ideas from contributers and then start weeding out the impractical ones. As I said earlier which no one has picked up on this project needs to be thought of in computing terms rather than real world terms.
As a concrete step I'd like to second Prodigy's suggestion that it be named the TSISS.
As a second suggestion lets hear what 3dvisuals dude has to say - he is obviously passionate about this and has also given it a lot of thought.
The poll as it stands is premature in my opinion. There is no considered criteria directing the voting because 'no go' ideas (and there is bound to be some) have not yet been culled.
Several perfectly good ideas have been shut down because of the 'gravity' question without sufficient consideration of lateral alternatives.
A project like this needs a clear and specific outcome to be feasable so I recommend that all participants first get clear on what is being built here.
Submitting ideas for modules or overall shape might also be premature for the reasons outlined in my erlier post. They are serving a good purpose however in that they are promoting discussion and further planning and refinement.
Major praise to Caligari for supporting this initiative - you guys ROCK.
Late here now, brain hurts, bedtime, good night! |
Post by Délé // Mar 15, 2007, 4:54pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I just wanted to post some of my thoughts on the design and direction of this project. I personally have no problem with the design being changed or modified. As I said, if everyone agrees to change the design and embrace other ideas, that's cool. I'm not so sure about the idea of a modular design where everyone has their own room and where all the rooms are linked with a portal though. It does sound good in theory but I have two problems with it.
1. I feel that a modular design with portal linked rooms was not the original idea. The point was collaboration. If you make a modular design then we might as well throw away the idea of making the actual space station all together. All we would need then is one blank room that each person could decorate anyway they want and then link them together via portal. I think that takes away from the collaborative idea of this project.
2. The second problem has to do with linking all of the rooms so that the design could grow and everyone could have their own space. Again it sounds good, but although Caligari was kind enough to give us an online space for the station, is Caligari going to give "everyone" a free space to upload their individual rooms? I don't know if they would or not. I do know that a personal space was supposed to be a perk of a Proteam membership, so there might be a conflict there. I'm not totally against the idea if Caligari would be willing to give everyone a free space to upload their rooms, but I did rather like the idea of a collaborative project where the end result was something built by the community, not just a bunch of individual projects linked together.
So I guess I like the idea of a space station design that is one scene. One scene built by all of us. Where we can all add a little bit to it. If the space station design remains relatively simple and low polygon, we will be able to have more user made objects inside. As I said before, we don't have to build the whole universe in one shot. Personally, I just like the idea of building a space station right now. We could have a portal in it that (in the future) could link to other collaborative or individual spaces, even other space stations. :) This way Caligari doesn't have to shell out a free space to everyone. That can still be a perk of a Proteam membership.
That's just my two cents though, whatever is decided in the end, I'm on board. :) |
Post by prodigy // Mar 15, 2007, 6:08pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I can say this..
This proyect have few rules:
1) Do this proyect for fun.
2) Anybody can join us
3) Anybody can sugest improvements and present ideas
4) This proyect is on the road, We choose the Theme and Design and nobody can change the design or the theme at this point...
5) This proyect must be done on a short time to mantain the interest on the collaborators.
I never like the people with bad news.. for that turn on the cnn.. ;)
Yes, i know are users who dont like my style and i respect..
But i dont care at all, i need this proyect start be funny and never stop untill the end..
If anybody start to questionate all.. please read again the start of this Thread..
anybody can present ideas and if we are agree.. we accept.. but we cant questionate again what we accept minutes later..
I need anybody in here understand the rules.. We need to get an order to make this proyect.. |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 15, 2007, 7:49pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Ok, just following the first rule: For fun. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 18, 2007, 4:13am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Dele has raised some excellent points. I was just making my suggestions to promote thought and discussion so that everyone ends up with something they can feel happy with.
I hope this project works out for everyone involved. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 18, 2007, 8:32am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Here is the last update from the model. |
Post by hemulin // Mar 18, 2007, 1:05pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Nice work. I've just been walking through it in tS7.5, looks brilliant. I've attached a walk through (of the above file) below:
Walkthrough made using Camtasia and trueSpace7.5beta.
Open the rar and click on the html file and it should open the video in a web browser. |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 18, 2007, 8:08pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Here is my attempt at making it bigger inside. Still very basic and much more modeling needed. This version is not shelled. Perhaps all interested in Collaborating on this at one certain time say this week, I purpose to set at time we could all meet. How about this Wednesday at 7:00 PM, Pacific Standard time?
I know it looks funky on the outside. :o
4934
4929
4930 |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Mar 18, 2007, 8:25pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Now where did I put those bread crumbs? Darn cleaning robots keep whisking away my trail. Judging from the grid this place will be huge! :) I do like the more open dome feel though. Reminds me of that movie "Silent Running".
Been sitting out on this one but am enjoying what I see! |
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