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First Collaboration Team
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
First Collaboration Team // Roundtable
Post by Steinie // Mar 8, 2007, 11:54am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I voted for TrueBlues modification of Prodigys with the Domes on each section. When I clicked to enter the vote the check mark somehow went to Prodigys. So there are actually two votes for trueBlue. |
Post by Burisman // Mar 8, 2007, 11:59am
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Burisman
Total Posts: 128
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:) Hehe, I suspect we are heading for some sort of nice synthesis anyhow :) |
Post by prodigy // Mar 8, 2007, 12:01pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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HAHAHAHA!!... i win a extra vote!! hahaha... :D |
Post by Burisman // Mar 8, 2007, 12:07pm
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Burisman
Total Posts: 128
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So you rigged the polling system, democracy eh?! Pfui! :)
;) |
Post by Délé // Mar 8, 2007, 1:05pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I voted for trueBlue's modification of Prodigy's design as well. I like the design but think it would look better with symmetry. Robo arms on both sides. :) |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 8, 2007, 1:24pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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I cant seem to vote, my internet connection here at university residents is via a network of weird/complex and useless safety systems, firewalls and stuff that dramatically reduces your use of the internet, in other words I cant seem to accept cookies, its rather hard to stay logged in lol.
But my Vote goes to Prodigy, I like although it doesnt seem to allow for may areas, but then again not many of us on this project and I imagine the end result will be somewhat different.
But I would like my idea that we split things up into seperate scenes so that loading time and running fps is better |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 8, 2007, 1:48pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I voted for trueBlue's modification of Prodigy's design as well. I like the design but think it would look better with symmetry. Robo arms on both sides. :)
For me this is Prodigy's design only with modifcations and yes Symmetry would be better. I did not have enough time to include some other changes that I would like to see. Make it less square looking for one. This is suppose to be a team project and so you can work out everybodies ideas when Collaborating. Most likely should have started out with a cube, but is good to see some conceptual ideas too. |
Post by brianalldridge // Mar 8, 2007, 2:03pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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I'm not too late to join am I? |
Post by Methusela // Mar 8, 2007, 2:06pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Originally posted by brianalldridge
I'm not too late to join am I?
Nope, anyone can join at any time!
I voted for True Blue's modification of Prodigy's original idea. I think it's a good synthesis of all the ideas so far! |
Post by brianalldridge // Mar 8, 2007, 2:17pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Nope, anyone can join at any time!
I voted for True Blue's modification of Prodigy's original idea. I think it's a good synthesis of all the ideas so far!Ok, thanks. Trueblue's does merge them all together fairly well, but shouldn't a decent space station have a larger, central room for meetings and the like? |
Post by prodigy // Mar 8, 2007, 2:45pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Again.. anybody can join us anytime.. and no matter their 3d Skills.. even if you dont have time to model maybe bring a good idea its most than enough.. :)
I like very much the pictures form Mathusela
1 (http://www.gwiezdne-wojny.pl/grafika/2004/sie/sk8.jpg)and 2 (http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/b/bb/Stormswarm.jpg/300px-Stormswarm.jpg)
somebody have another interior ideas?? |
Post by Burisman // Mar 9, 2007, 2:50am
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Burisman
Total Posts: 128
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Well, as a first small contribution I've been tweaking the Prodigy/TrueBlue configuration a bit. Added the extra robo-arms, as suggested earlier, tweaked the dome, extended the arms for the propulsion mechanism... Not much really. But have a lot of other work right now :( |
Post by prodigy // Mar 9, 2007, 9:10am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Know why i only add one hand?? because i think may add extra problems to the scripts to move 4 hands than one.. ;) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 9, 2007, 5:46pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi folks... back again!
I voted for TrueBlue's mod, but prefer Burisman No.6 (which wasn't created until after the poll). In any case, I'm sure this will evolve as ideas evolve.
In the meantime I banged out a preliminary Dimensional Transport Portal along with a textured room to house it. The COB file and images are attached below for anyone to modify or play with it. Neither the Dimensional Transport platform and particle spheres are active (animated) yet, but I suppose this will do as a start for further ideas.
The building (Transport Room) is irrelevent really, I just needed a place to house what became a very cool Dimensional Transport Platform, at least it does look very cool with both of the "whirling particle spheres" in motion in opposed directions... animate it and see for yourself!
Of course collision would have to be disabled for those particles, and a "flash effect" of some kind as one is transported within them would be nice too.
Anyhow... disregard the overall building shape entirely, as I can easily (and would much rather) create an architecturally inspiring version more in harmony with the final shape of the Space Station itself once I have an idea what that final shape will look like!
Truet me though... the opposed whirling particle spheres (one inside the other) do look very cool in motion. :banana:
This is a great diversion from the difficult task of the Roman Avatar Project, but I'm still neck-deep in that project as well!
Fun stuff folks... lets keep the ball rolling on this! :D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 9, 2007, 5:52pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Don't miss that Cob file attached at the end of my previous post, and here's the last of the preview images.
Enjoy! :D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Burisman // Mar 9, 2007, 11:37pm
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Burisman
Total Posts: 128
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3dvisuals dude's burst of creativity opens a lot of perspectives and also helps to focus on the requirements of the design. The station should be big enough to house really large environments, or worlds, that could accomodate microclimats en -landscapes, such as suggested in his destination posters in the lobby of his Transport module. As teleportation becomes a means of transport between these worlds, domes, or spheres in the station, then the parts holding these together can become more skeletal and elegant, with only a few corridors or intermediary spaces? As a result, the dimensions of the propulsion system and the command centre will scale also down proportionally. As every part of the station gets its Dimensional Transport pod then the mechanism of TruePlay can be used?
Only with inclusion of the cool effects as described by 3dvisuals dude.;)
Nice progress;) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 10, 2007, 2:21am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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3dvisuals dude's burst of creativity opens a lot of perspectives and also helps to focus on the requirements of the design. The station should be big enough to house really large environments, or worlds, that could accomodate microclimats en -landscapes, such as suggested in his destination posters in the lobby of his Transport module. As teleportation becomes a means of transport between these worlds, domes, or spheres in the station, then the parts holding these together can become more skeletal and elegant, with only a few corridors or intermediary spaces? As a result, the dimensions of the propulsion system and the command centre will scale also down proportionally. As every part of the station gets its Dimensional Transport pod then the mechanism of TruePlay can be used?
Only with inclusion of the cool effects as described by 3dvisuals dude.;)
Nice progress;)
Wow. I was quietly hoping that someone would truly grasp the enormous intrinsic value of introducing "Dimensional Transport Platforms" (DTP) into this overall ISS Project, and you hit the nail right on the head there Burisman!
Introducing DTP, allows us a freedom of design which as you skillfully put it "can become more skeletal and elegant" than limiting ourselves to the more standardized approaches to building spacial environments. This same evolution occured to a lesser extent within the various Star Trek series' of TV shows. With Star Trek's unprecedented introduction of the Deep Space Nine Space Station *moored in a single spot* next to a strategically valuable wormhole, they had the right idea only couldn't very well develop it to the extent that WE are able to... to the extent you envisioned above.
Indeed, cities, environments, "worlds," existing TruePlace Destinations, and who-knows-what... *MAY* be attached onto our initial design easily via DTP.
What need is there of ANY propulsion for that matter, unless it is simulated in an animated shuttle perhaps.
As for your choice of the words "skeletal" and "elegant," you have just inspired me to make a few ~modifications~ of my own to the overall ISS design. Heh heh heh... Wait 'till you see the next image I post here! :D
Thanks Burisman, and everyone else here for making this a fun ride!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Mar 10, 2007, 8:21am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I agree, 3dvisuals dude has some great ideas and fantastic images. :) With all this talk of portals, particles, entire worlds and such, it might be a good time to think about the limits that are imposed if we are to make an interactive scene for truePlay. There will be polygon limits for sure, more so if Caligari decides to put any of this on a server. Perhaps Emmanuel could enlighten us a bit as to the poly counts he was able to get away with in all those cool truePlay spaces he made? That would give us a rough polygon budget to work with. Once we have a rough budget for the entire scene, I recommend we budget out poly counts for each space in the station.
Having multiple worlds connected with portals is definitely a cool idea, but I think we should concentrate on this one space first. We don't even know if Caligari will post this on a server yet. Let's build one space and see what happens.
For now, I'm also opposed to the idea of breaking the station up into different scenes that are linked. It would indeed allow for higher poly counts for each space but that would also mean we would need a portal in each room that has links that go to every other room. Again, for the same reason I stated above I think it's best to concentrate on one space for now. I think if the polygon budget is closely followed we could get a decent amount of stuff in the scene. We could always add portals to other spaces in the future. We don't need to build the whole universe in one shot. :)
So I think we'll have to pay close attention to polygon counts and texture sizes to keep the scene optimized for interaction in truePlay. While a lot is possible, we do have some limits to watch out for. Just my two cents. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 11, 2007, 11:33am
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Total Posts: 3029
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I think its enough, If we move the vote from steinie for trueblue.. the final score is:
8 Trueblue
5 Prodigy
The winner is!!! TRUEBLUE'S MODIFICATION!! :)
Congratulations!!! |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 11, 2007, 11:57am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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It is your design Prodigy. I was just hoping for the Forest Domes. When you start Collaborating on your great project you can make all the ideas come together. Anyway what you started is great! |
Post by prodigy // Mar 11, 2007, 2:48pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Well, the next step its more complex..
The next is get the design with the final dimentions, for that task we need trueblue make the model more clean to work over that base.
True, you must think on the interior dimentions and thats gonna give you the the exterior.
When we had the Final volumetric model. we gonna make 2 SUB TEAMS.
One team for the Interior and the other for the Exterior.
Each teams are able to choose the style.
The Exterior team gonna modeling the hands, details to the body and the dome and the Earth.
The Interior Team gonna choose the interior design, the rooms and the control panel and the interior of the dome.
Anybody can make new sugestions or changes.. ;) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 11, 2007, 5:57pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hello again folks...
I've been a tad bust playing with this overall ISS Design itself since I last visited here after the discussion between me and Burisman. I had intended to create something as he put it "more skeletal and elegant," but I rejected my own early attempts at making a more ~ bioform / skeletal design ~ and settled on a path that concluded in (at least what I consider to be) a more "elegant" design. Gravity, as you will see, played a big factor in the design.
This particular design is entirely by me from scrath after my discussion here with Burisman, and one should keep in mind that this is **NOT** a finished ISS Design... merely an "elegant shell" proposal from me.
I found after failed attempts at creating a decent render from within one of the geodesic domes in my design, for instance, that the domes will have to be remade by me... no sweat. I accidentally created too deep of an inset when making the window struts for it and this caused tears in the rendering of the polys (only when seen from inside of the domes). Easy to fix though.
I DO realize that some folks will be upset with me for introducing an entirely DIFFERENT sort of ISS Design this late in the game... after a poll and all, and after all the yet-unseen work being done on those designs as I write this... nevertheless, this is what I can offer you in this endeavor, for whatever it may be worth to you all. If no-one embraces it wholeheartedly, I can always make it a different (non-ISS) TruePlace Destination... perhaps another spot to teleport to from the accepted ISS Design! Whatever... this is a blast for me to partake in, as may be readily seen in the effort and detail I have given it so far.
Whatever happens with THIS particular ISS Design Proposal... PLEASE be sure to embrace and utilize my earlier concept (the DTP / Dimensional Transport Platforms) in whatever ISS Design end up being the final ISS Design. As Burisman clearly understood, that concept offers you a great deal of design freedom, and for that matter, a far greater experience by the end-users of the eventual TruePlace ISS. ;)
My apologies, especially to Prodigy, for entering a new ISS Design candidate after his Poll on the overall design. I deeply appreciate and respect the talents of Prodigy and so many others here that I hope I make no offense.
:confused:
Thanks again for making this so much fun for me everyone, and perhaps especially to Roman... without whos' many years of dedication and insight this truly fantastic toolset (TrueSpace 6.6) and this absolutely amazing reality (TruePlace) would have never become available to us all.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 11, 2007, 6:00pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Be sure to grab those COB and SCN Zips at the end of my last post, and here's the final previews.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Methusela // Mar 11, 2007, 6:34pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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That's a great design, but the problem we'd have with that is that gravity only points one way in Trueplay. :/
That'd be a good design for artificial gravity though, if the wheel spun! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 11, 2007, 6:49pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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That's a great design, but the problem we'd have with that is that gravity only points one way in Trueplay. :/
That'd be a good design for artificial gravity though, if the wheel spun!
Hahahahaha!
That's what I get for embracing the concept of TruePlace / TruePlay without having GONE THERE myself yet! Hahahahaha! :rolleyes:
Hey... it's no sweat to alter the outer ring of that design above to acoomodate uniderectional gravity though, in fact that will drop the polycount a lot because I can eliminate the nacelles / thrusters completely and simply make the ring like Saturns with the structures on top! Hmmm... maybe enclosed as a Cirular Greenhouse Park? Hahahaha! Guess I'm back to re-modeling the outer ring then!
Thanks though... glad you pointed out that issue right away! :D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Methusela // Mar 11, 2007, 8:48pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Hahahahaha!
That's what I get for embracing the concept of TruePlace / TruePlay without having GONE THERE myself yet! Hahahahaha! :rolleyes:
- 3dvisuals dude
I've never been there either :p
I probably should before we start this in earnest, huh? |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 11, 2007, 10:13pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I am going to throw out some budget numbers and scale information though this is just a guess on my part.
Scene:
17,000 vertices.
13,000 faces.
Minimum size room 33 meters x 33 meters and Height 10 meters.
Doorway 5 meters x 5 meters.
I would think the best way to get started is to get permission from Roman for a dedicated Shared Space for this project. We could then post the results (files.cob) as we go here in this thread. Seems most people interested do have trueSpace7 anyway but do not want to leave out anybody either.
Prodigy: I hope you are not implying that I model this whole space ship to start out. I would suggest maybe just starting out with the main Hull or Body and make that the general gathering area and Entry Point.
I just bought a new computer and I am going to be really busy for the next few days and I do not want to hold anybody back.
3dvisuals dude: What you created so far looks really great. If this happens that this project gets divided up into teams for different areas, I want to be on your team. :) |
Post by Nez // Mar 12, 2007, 5:26am
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Total Posts: 1102
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A very interesting idea - can't see me having enough time to participate but will be interested to see how it pans out.
I would have imagined the easiets way to progress would be to use the general form of Pridgy's solution but not necessarily adhering to the precise layout shown. If you look at existing space stations, the key is that they are formed of discrete modules joined together.
Individuals could model (and texture) separate modules which could then be linked to form the ISS. Give everyone a standard hatch size (preferably a hatch model) and just build your module with a hatch at each end, one end only or on multiple sides and these can be added together to form 'corridors' or 'cross-roads'. You could model specific connecting modules for junctions, airlocks, etc.
The modules don't need to be fixed sizes and can be tailored for different uses - galleys, sleeping quarters, labs, 'transporters', control rooms, etc. No reason why biomes etc couldn't be added also.
All you really need to agree is the hatch and whether you've got gravity or not... although a few 'shared' textures would help tie it all together.
If people can't model a full model, they could contribute furniture, textures, etc...
Anyway, I look forward to seeing this evolve. In terms of other collaboration projects, maybe we could do a housing estate - where people are each given a 'plot of land' on which to model a house (perhaps exterior only!) or a town/city block where you model a building (again, exterior only might be best!) |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 12, 2007, 6:26am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I've been off sailing and battling pirates and thus have missed the interesting things happening here. I've just done a quick read through and several points have cropped up for me so I'll just chuck them into the general conversation.
First comment - the name. ISS? There is already an International Space Station - shouldn't we be building the "trueSpace Station"?
Second comment - Gravity. The fact that gravity is only operating in one direction does not prevent the building of a wheeled spacestation (as in '2001' A Space Odyssey' which has gravity pointing out) rather than a wheel like 'Deep Space Nine' which has a (cop out IMHO) gravity which points down. I'll discuss this further in the next point which is...
Modularity. Any trueplace scene must be limited by download size of relevent files. Thus the creation of a lightweight modular shell of specific size with the aforementioned 'dimensional portals' at each end would simplify the stations construction hugely. Thus a visitor to a new spacestation module would only need to download the contents of that that module as the modular 'shell' is already downloaded to their computer. I don't know how technically feasable that is but it makes sense to me.
Even if it is not possible to reuse the same environmental shell for each modular habitat it still makes sense to utilise this modular construction. This way the view out the windows would be the same from each module - you would see space, and the rest of the wheel gently curving up from what would look like the adjacent module - the unique, user built interiors of the spacestation modules would give the convincing impression that each module is different.
The pictures here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1296)give some idea of what I'm suggesting.
A space station participant - or a subgroup of them, could then download a module shell and kit it out as they see fit then upload the results much as you would an ordinary 2d webpage.
For excursions outside the space station all that's required is a model revolving in a sphere. Remember that by building in virtual space we are not limited by real world topology. My module does not need to connect to steinies module which connects to Prodigy's module as each module is connected by the dimensional transport mechanism described by 3dvisuals dude. This allows the greater interconnectivity of a network rather than the limiting connectivity of linear space.
This way the interior of the ship could grow virtually infinitly large (limited by the number of transdimensional portals and the size of the relevent icons. A completed model representing the outside of the ship could be built and finished quite quickly and would inhabit a unique trueplace scene in which there is no gravity (presumably gravity has to be programmed into a trueSpace and thus could be programmed out again!
There is no reason why the trueSpace Station couldn't be like Dr Who's TARDIS - bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. There has been a lot of good suggestions to this thread but please remember that we are not limited to real world geometry or physics. What does limit us is file size and upload/download speeds. We need to think in terms of what is both user friendly AND computer friendly. Ease of navigation is far more important that what shape the modules look like and how they fit together.
I'm personally unable to contribute a lot but will support this project as much as I'm able.
It occurs to me that, to a certain extent, the space station idea already exists - it is orbiting as we speak through the Caligari servers. It's called truePlace. As soon as individual users are able to access individual spaces in truePlace then anyone can create any environment that bandwidth allows. What is being suggested in this thread is really a coherent visual design concept.
Finally, does anyone remember back when everyone was saying I have no need of shared and collabarative space - it's of no interest to me? S'funny how things change while somehow staying the same..... |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 12, 2007, 2:03pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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ok well im not sure what we are doing yet heh, so thought id have a mess about and start making a texture for the domes, if we use low polygon sphere and use a texture for the triangular windows we can save a lot on polygons me thinks |
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