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Tabula Rossa
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Tabula Rossa // Roundtable
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 19, 2007, 2:34am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi folks,
Something interesting is about to occur here. I've been so tired of strugling with all the minutia of designing the structure of a new forthcoming collaboration team that I just decided to jump into creating a place for it to meet in order to hammer out the details among those who care to partake.
There will be a great deal more to follow but this may give you an idea of where it's headed...
(disregard the stars background, btw, I always render wips that way and this will not be a place in outer space)
This is the first guestroom in a circular connected area... should he decide to join in, this one is reserved for W!ZARD.
(and yes, I did keep the polycount down)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Mar 19, 2007, 3:47am
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ProfessorKhaos
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Cool looking stuff! |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 19, 2007, 12:36pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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This is the first guestroom in a circular connected area... should he decide to join in, this one is reserved for W!ZARD.
(and yes, I did keep the polycount down)
- 3dvisuals dude
Hey thanks Dude. Certainly looks like a suitable accomodation for a wizard. Six sided, pointy on top, coloured purple, has stars - yep that's Wizardy alright!
Re my joining in - sadly that is unlikely at the moment as my interests are fully focussed in other directions but thanks again for thinking of me. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 19, 2007, 8:34pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Cool looking stuff!
Hi and thanks P.K.,
It was just a passing thought I had which I sidetracked myself with for about three hours! It was fun... never made a salt-shaker shaped building before and the working spiral staircase was a trip to get right. Good experience anyhow.
Stay tuned... there's some good things on their way to this thread soon. ;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 19, 2007, 8:39pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hey thanks Dude. Certainly looks like a suitable accomodation for a wizard. Six sided, pointy on top, coloured purple, has stars - yep that's Wizardy alright!
Re my joining in - sadly that is unlikely at the moment as my interests are fully focussed in other directions but thanks again for thinking of me.
No sweat Wiz...
Hey, I really did appreciate your unconventional and insightful input in the other thread, hopefully when this ball gets rolling here you may find the time somewhere down the road... I hope so.
I'd get a kick out of watching one of your ships out in the harbor from a balcony somehwere off one of the new buildings that will be coming soon!
Stay tuned, and don't be a stranger...
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 19, 2007, 8:43pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Ok folks...
Well I guess the wizard's hut is up for grabs or remodling! No sweat... these structures are very easy to bang out, it's not like modeling realistic humans... now THAT is tough for me.
Anyhow...
Here's a random thought I had for a meeting place layout... just thought I'd drop it into the mix here...
Much more to follow...
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 24, 2007, 11:46pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow... a lot has happened in this forum while I was away.
I have to go shorten my next reply into 4 or 5 sections apparently... I didn't know there was a 1000 character limit per post. ;)
Back in a bit then...
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 25, 2007, 12:36am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Part One
"Tabula Rossa"
( A Clean Slate)
- A Proposal for a Timely Alternative to Traditional Collaborative Methods -
[ 4 Key Excerpts From Below ]
"If we are going to build truly 'Collaborative Environments' together with truePlay and TruePlaces in keeping with the clear vision of Roman Ormandy and Caligari, then let's all have a good look NOW into alternatives to the 'usual method' approach to the formation of Collaboration Teams and Collaboration Projects in general BEFORE we do so."
"This 'usual method' approach (here or anywhere else) to starting new voluntary teams for collaborative purposes is inherently flawed, however. The flaws lie in the characteristic absence of any reliably cohesive unifying structure to offset potential disagreements which naturally arise among different members as well as in the characteristic absence of any pre-defined role and accountability of various Project Leaders."
"What I am NOT proposing here is simply ANOTHER Collaborative Project and ANOTHER Collaborative Team with the same inherently typical and inherently flawed 'usual method' approach as all the rest, but rather a total departure from that 'usual method' of establishing new collaborative projects and teams altogether. I simply and firmly believe that it is time to change the 'usual method' approach itself. It's time for a "Tabula Rossa,' a 'clean slate' for us ALL to start working on together, here and now."
"Just as we can collaborate on new models and projects for cyberspace, we are also perfectly capable of collaborating together here and now on the creation of a clearly defined, just, and reasonable framework of rules for Collaborative Team/Project Membership. A Membership Framework wherein future prospective collaborators will not be discouraged to become active participants, wherein they will not see the disgruntled posts of those who have been ridiculed, ignored, or patronized and decide to not participate for fear of it happening to them, but rather a framework wherein everyone's voice is heard and equally respected, because within THIS new framework EVERY Member has ONE vote on everything which transpires."
- 3dvisuals dude
~ THESIS ~
"3D Authoring and Collaboration"
Those two concepts, strident atop every page of this Caligari trueSpace Community Forum, say it all. Until Roman Ormandy came along, however, those two concepts were as mutually exclusive as night and day. As a longtime 3D Modeler, I'll always remain in awe of that fact.
You see I'm new here at this Forum, so I haven't become jaded yet. To me, those two concepts are still on their honeymoon together... to me they represent not only a pristine ideal but a supreme challenge... something not to be trifled with... a most serious endeavor.
The clearly apparent Vision of Roman Ormandy and the Caligari Corporation as a whole is to transition 3D Authors en masse from their traditional individual computer worstations worldwide to the truly awesome new realms of realtime online collaboration made possible through trueSpace7xx, truePlay, and beyond. Consequently, we here at this Caligari Forum, being both Caligari trueSpace Customers and dedicated users, stand at the forefront of this brave new endeavor together. We here now are both the initial followers and future leaders within this emerging collaborative objective. As such, we owe it to ourselves and to all who follow to see to it that this transition will be as flawless, successful, and truly enjoyable as we can all possibly make it together. Do we not?
Thanks to the vision, perserverence, and talent of Roman Ormandy and Team Caligari, I forsee that within two fleeting years many of us will be sitting together on the spacious and breathtakingly photorealistic veranda of our new Virtual Tahiti Collaboration Building discussing the other 200 simultaneous projects being conducted in realtime just a few virtual feet away. Can you hear the waves and see the palm trees in the breeze? At the foot of the bluff just below us there on the beach, several people have started up another virtual volleyball game to kill some time and shake off a little stress. Out in the harbor near the horizon you can see those kids from the hospital together again learning how to sail on one of our training yachts. Over on the hill to the right you can see that junior high school class erecting yet another of their fantastic architectural wonders together. The fact is, there are simply no limits to what successful collaboration can accomplish... none whatsoever.
As the longstanding computer visionary Alan Kay once stated:
"The real romance is out ahead and yet to come. The computer revolution hasn't started yet. Don't be misled by the enormous flow of money into bad defacto standards for unsophisticated buyers using poor adaptations of incomplete ideas."
Clearly, Mr. Kay and Mr. Ormandy had parallel visions. While Kay foresaw a "computer revolution" on the horizon, Roman Ormandy foresaw yet another and far greater "computer revolution" on the horizon... "a collaborative revolution" if you will... or as Toffler would define it, a "Paradigm Shift" which mankind would soon embrace of sheer necessity. Mr. Ormandy, however, saw this vision so clearly and precicely that he set out determined to bring it to pass, and in fact already thoroughly succeeded. If tomorrow Caligari and Mr. Ormandy both ceased to exist, this "Virtual Collaboration" legacy of Mr. Ormandy would continue completely unabated due to the sheer momentum he brought to it and to the fact that mankind actually needs it, whether they realize it yet or not. This is no small thing which Mr. Ormandy has started here, as he himself no doubt clearly understands, it is a far bigger thing than the small parts each of us now play within it. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 25, 2007, 12:37am
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3dvisuals dude
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Part Two
Like Mr. Ormandy, Kay also saw clearly "outside the box," and the parallel nature of these two men's visions are rather astonishing in hindsight. For instance, long before portable computers became a practicle possibility let alone a common tool embraced by mankind, Kay stated in regard to his prototype portable computer the "Dynabook": (Think of trueSpace 7xx and truePlay as you read this)
"What would happen in a world in which everyone had a Dynabook? If such a machine were designed in a way that any owner could mold and channel its power to his own needs, then a new kind of medium would have been created: a metamedium, whos content would be a wide range of already-existing and not-yet-invented media. An Architect might wish to simulate three-dimensional space in order to peruse and edit his current designs..." [ Kay goes on to draw several directly applicable parallels ]
Adapting Kay's foresight briefly, let me ask you... what would happen in a world in which everyone has trueSpace7xx and truePlay?
They are already designed in such a way that everyone who has them can mold and channel their power to his own needs. With the advent of these new tools a new kind of medium has been created: "a metamedium," whos content will indeed be a wide range of already-existing and not-yet-invented media. Indeed, everyone who designs for truePlay IS "an Architect" in what one day soon may become a far greater sense.
Every time a new truePlace is created within trueSpace and launched on the web a new media is born... a deeply immersive media... a fully interactive photorealistic audio and visual 3D environment with physics which is truly capable of conveying the full spectrum of human expression to anyone anytime, even simultaneous groups of people spread across the globe; and with truePlay, free of charge. Beyond all that the fact that actual realtime collaboration is possible within each of these environments opens doors to possibilities which none of us are yet fully capable of envisioning. It's one thing to admire an awesome work of visual or audio art, and quite another to be able to walk inside it while communicating in realtime with others thousands of miles away who are walking right next to you. This is all, in a word, "momentous."
The ultimate success of this whole vision, however, revolves to no small extent around the potential success or failure of collaborative teams who create it and develop it together. The Team Caligari technical staff has their end of it very well in hand, but I'm referring specifically to us Caligari Customers who form various collaborative efforts to utilize this brave new world in our immediate future. Are we truly ready?
Setting up a new Collaboration Team in any environment is normally a simple matter of starting a project which inherently may be of interest to others and informally inviting prospective collaborators to join in with you on it as Members of an informal Team. For the sake of clarity as we proceed, this normal approach to starting a new Collaboration Team will be referred to below as the "usual method."
Naturally, as with all voluntary collective human endeavors, Collaboration Team Member disagreements as to the content, scope, direction, means, methods, tools, priorities, leadership style, and a host of other intrinsic project elements will arise and are to be expected.
This "usual method" approach (here or anywhere else) to starting new voluntary teams for collaborative purposes is inherently flawed, however. The flaws lie in the characteristic absence of any reliably cohesive unifying structure to offset potential disagreements which naturally arise among different members as well as in the characteristic absence of any pre-defined role and accountability of various Project Leaders.
Consequently, when a given collaborative project started with this "usual method" is one which inherently evokes no particularly strong and/or potentially devisive feelings or issues amongst the Collaboration Team Membership (and assuming that the leaders of the initiative are reasonably dilligent in making the time to take into consideration the constructive suggestions and contributions of all other Contributing Members of the Team), all usually goes just fine, or at least, for the most part. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 25, 2007, 12:39am
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3dvisuals dude
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Part Three
~ ANTITHESIS ~
Collaboration, however, within any environment, inherently brings human disagreements to the table along with all our aspirations and strengths. While strengths and aspirations normally tend to enhance both the collaborative experience and the quality of the collaborative project's outcome, the manner with which leadership excercises control or fails to, as well as the manner with which inevitable member disagreements are dealt with among any given collaborative team's membership here, are only two of many subjects sorely in need of pre-emptive scrutiny before we collectively embark upon this visionary realtime transition together.
Without being so specific as to intentionally draw the usual flamethrowers of this forum into this thread and cause, I believe we all can go a long way together right now in addressing several issues directly before they arise to manifest themselves within the larger context of new global collaborative realms we are about to create and inhabit. I'll gladly trade anyone an olive branch for their torch on this one now.
Before anyone ** assumes ** that I believe I'm not prone to the faults I'm about to refer to, let me be perfectly clear... I am as guilty of these faults myself as any one of you here are, will be, or ever have been. Finger pointing is not the objective here, corrective measures are.
It is also incorrect to assume that I intend to lead this new initiative I am proposing here. There will be no single Leader but Project Leaders and Teams, Sub-Teams, etcetera. All Project Leaders must be elected by all Participating Members, not imposed by default; all have limited pre-defined powers, and all will be answerable to every Participating Member at all times subject to immediate Majority Membership recall for any reason deemed appropriate by the Majority Membership whatsoever. Think of it as being like The IceCapades... on very thin ice! Not an easy job. Besides, I'm not nearly as qualified for it yet as many of you here already are, I don't even have trueSpace7 yet!
My personal ambitions and intentions in all this are quite simply limited at this point to initiating the creation of a new collaborative membership structure which we will all be comfortable volunteering to work within and adhere to. A structure not prone to the typical abuses seen in various collaboration efforts by virtue of the fact that a common vote empowers each Member and nothing more.
The fact is ** we all ** need to take the art of effective collaboration to a far better level. I'm not merely whining here though, before I'm finished below I'll be presenting you all with a comprehensive plan... an alternative to traditional collaborative methods which I firmly believe if adopted will inherently address every typical collaborative team fault I am about to refer to within the context of all future collaborative efforts. I'm just kicking around a new idea, but the idea will be in your court now instead of mine.
I often wonder how Mr. Ormandy feels about the future of his bold initiative being inherently tied to the collaborative abilities and inabilities of those within this Forum. Granted, the talent here is truly awesome and formidable... but do cliques, ridicule, patronizing stances, or negligent project leaders deserve a powerful place within this great new endeavor we are undertaking together?
As for me, I look around in here at various collaborative efforts and frankly all I see are small collaborative efforts being taken seriously and accordingly resulting in great success, while larger ones are being directed by those whom I wouldn't trust to competently manage a tricycle. I see extremely talented artisans wading in self-absorbtion as they whine incessently about rewards and recognition. I see posts from people who spent several months as "lurkers" here at these Forums before posting because they didn't feel they were "competent enough" to join in yet and feared their efforts would be ridiculed here. Why do so many first time posters here invariably post apologetic introductions? Hmm...
Look at the numbers at the bottom of the main page as to Active Members versus Members (Caligari Customers who at least dared to join this Forum at some point), it tells a story and it's not a good one. Sure, these numbers are much better than other forums we are all aware of, but for every single Caligari Customer who has visited these forums and registered here as a Member I'll safely bet there are over 50 who never registered and only visit here to read the posts of others. When you see the number of "Guests" online while you are here, do you ever ask yourself ** WHY ** they are not logged in? Are they regular posters, or those who are simply afraid to post here? Also, do you ever wonder how many "Guests" left here never to return because of some of the posts they saw in here? |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 25, 2007, 12:40am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Suppose you happen to find one day that YOU are someone who possesses a particularly strong attitude toward a given collaborative project held here or the precedent it sets, and discover that within the team membership you are either alone or apparently in the clear minority as to that particular attitude? Are you willing to ask openly for a reasonable compromise, and if so, what happens when your open calls for a reasonable compromise go utterly ignored by the leadership and/or become ridiculed, misunderstood, or patronized by the membership? Do you turn away and let the same thing happen to the next guy, or do you stand your ground with others to eliminate such injustices?
All of the unresolved problems evident within any given collaborative environment are simply symptoms of a more basic problem and not the root cause. It is only a typical result of the "usual method" approach to establishing any collaborative venture in the first place. If the initial approach itself were well founded, all that followed naturally within it would be orderly and beneficial to the whole of the membership, including disputes and disagreements of all kinds.
Sure, each of us has our own faults we bring to the table, but in a well structured team such issues are normally minor and are rapidly resolved. I'm referring here to the bigger problems which surface within collaborative efforts only to end up utterly unresolved to the satisfaction of each party involved. We are not simply typical 3D Forum Members here, we are all fellow Caligari Customers, and slapping a fellow Customer in the face openly, whether physically or virtually has the definite effect of not only discouraging that particular Customer from future dedication to Caligari-related Projects, it has the additional definite effect of discouraging countless other Caligari Customers who otherwise may have joined these Forums from doing so in the future. As you know, "Guests" read these posts long after they are posted.
I am as guilty of this on occasion as anyone else here, maybe more so, and perhaps it's an unavoidable thing. Nevertheless, WE CAN take measures now together to make it a far less likely or common event here. You can insult me and ridicule me all you like for trying, I'm sure everyone will be deeply impressed. Or perhaps you may admit that you too aren't perfect, and maybe I just may have a fairly good idea here in spite of what a fool I am. Maybe you could do a better job of this than me... GOOD. Let's do it then. This is not about just you and I at all.
What I am NOT proposing here is simply ANOTHER Collaborative Project and ANOTHER Collaborative Team with the same inherently typical and inherently flawed "usual method" approach as all the rest, but rather a total departure from that "usual method" of establishing new collaborative projects and teams altogether. I simply and firmly believe that it is time to change the "usual method" approach itself. It's time for a "Tabula Rossa," a "clean slate" for us ALL to start working on together, here and now.
If we are going to build truly 'Collaborative Environments' together with truePlay and TruePlaces in keeping with the clear vision of Roman Ormandy and Caligari, then let's all have a good look NOW into alternatives to the 'usual method' approach to the formation of Collaboration Teams and Collaboration Projects in general BEFORE we do so.
~ SYNTHESIS ~
What I AM Proposing...
A NEW COLLABORATIVE MEMBERSHIP FRAMEWORK:
Just as we can collaborate on new models and projects for cyberspace, we are also perfectly capable of collaborating together here and now on the creation of a clearly defined, just, and reasonable framework of rules for Collaborative Team/Project Membership. A Membership Framework wherein future prospective collaborators will not be discouraged to become active participants, wherein they will not see the disgruntled posts of those who have been ridiculed, ignored, or patronized and decide to not participate for fear of it happening to them, but rather a framework wherein everyone's voice is heard and equally respected, because within THIS new framework EVERY Member has ONE vote on everything which transpires. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Mar 25, 2007, 12:42am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Part Five
Within the Collaborative Membership Framework I am proposing:
1) Any Participating Member can hold a Referendum at any time and on any Membership or Project-related subject whatsoever, provided that a substantially identical Referendum from any other Perticipating Member or themselves has not been held within the prior 14 days.
2) All Referendums are subject to the same (non-poll) Majority Participating Membership votes cast to 5 days or Majority Participating Member Consensus.
3) The definitions of the terms "Participating Member" and "Consensus" must themselves be voted upon and incorporated within the official Collaborative Membership Framework Rules. The term "Days" used herein refers to complete 24 hour periods.
4) Anyone may at any time become a "Participating Member" subject to the Collaborative Membership Framework Rules and definitions and their willingness to adhere to them.
5) No one shall ever be "voted into Membership." This is vital... we are not substituting small cliques for one huge clique here.
6) Participating Members (as CAREFULLY pre-defined by the Majority Membership) CANNOT be voted out of Membership. They may be irritating but they have every right to be provided that they are being truly constructive as opposed to merely disruptive. This is also vital.
6b) The term "Disruptive Member" must therefore also be clearly and justly pre-defined and adopted into the Collaborative Membership Framework Rules as well as just and appropriate levels of corrective measures which "Disruptive Members" may reasonably look forward to. Due to the fact that "Disruptive Members" will probably have friends in the Membership, such corrective measures MUST include (as a last resort) permanent loss of Referendum rights and Voting rights as well as permanent denial of Project Leadership, Team, and Sub-Team positions. It is also imperative that the definition of "Disruptive Member" include those who will inevitably ignore clause #6d below.
6c) In "Disruptive Member" cases so severe as to fall within the attention of the Caligari Forum Administrators or Moderators such problems will no doubt immediately cease.
6d) Members are NOT to police each other. Members shall have no business snapping back at posts they may find offensive other than to quote directly applicable Membership Framework Rules to those they feel have broken or disregarded them. In the event that Members have quoted such Rules and the offense continues then clause #6b above kicks in as pre-defined within the Collaborative Membership Framework Rules. Cliques and those who consider themselves Forum Police always have and will exist, but within THIS Framework they will remain powerless and unless truly constructive their criticisms will remain worthless to this endeavor and all others.
7) Projects, Sub-Teams, and Project Leaders will all be completely open for suggestion and comment at any time by anyone, Member or not, and may be offered up for Referendum by any Participating Member at any time subject to clause #6b above and clause #7b below.
7b) Project Leaders may neither assume nor seek additional simultaneous Project Leader roles without the prior and publicly posted unanimous consent of their existing Team(s), after which they may seek a Majority Participating Membership vote.
8) All Project Leaders must each be voted into that position, and will be immediately subject to all Project-related Membership Referendums.
9) Sub-Teams may be formed as the Project Leaders see fit but shall be comprised ONLY of Participating Members.
10) Projects shall be defined and adopted by Majority Participating Membership votes NOT by Project Leaders.
Project Leaders have the role of fulfilling the intent of the Majority Participating Membership, NOT of defining or redefining it.
11) The initial Framework of Membership Rules CANNOT be substantially altered as to original intent once adopted, even by Majority Participating Membership Consensus Votes. However, the initial Framework of Membership Rules once adopted MAY be Amended as to scope and / or specific items of clarity by Majority Participating Membership Consensus Votes at any time.
12) "No Confidence" Referendums may be held by any Participating Member at any time provided that a substantially identical Referendum from any other Perticipating Member or themselves has not been held within the prior 14 days.
If I haven't already made this obvious, this new kind of Membership Framework I envision is one in which each member who joins and is willing to contribute their own time and talents toward in some way will have completely equal power in terms of the entire scope, direction, and selection of all key leadership positions as well as the entire direction and scope of numerous simultaneous projects. Commercially viable sub-projects may also be possible to "spin off" among teams outside the scope of this Forum as well. Again, there are simply no limits to what successful collaboration can accomplish... none whatsoever... but for any of this to succeed it all requires YOU.
Every concept is open to discussion, every suggestion can be improved upon. Obviously not every future collaboration team will choose to begin their effort by adhering to whatever framework we happen to hammer out here, although many may end up wishing they had.
~ OPEN INVITATION ~
Caligari is achieving their part, the rest is up to us. I've presented you all with 12 initial guidelines above which if adopted would go a long way toward eliminating typical problems in future Collaborative Projects before they even arise and effectively address those which are inescapably inevitable... but again, the rest is up to us... not me. I'm obviously no Einstein, this is just a start. Maybe all of you are content with the status quo here, but I seriously doubt that. Now I wonder who among you all will have the clarity of mind and courage to join me in this and to make this dream a reality for all of us.
So who's got the guts here to say "Count me in?"
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Steinie // Mar 25, 2007, 3:19am
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Steinie
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Why are you rewriting the Forum rules already written? Why didn't you respond to "Every Single Post I will" What the heck is "the usual method" you refer? That you can submit ideas after it's been voted on in a poll?
You've taken first place for length of post...but reading all this I'm not clear you know anyone else is out there. Have you turned on the filter for "All Members"?
Are you by chance a Retired Project Manager? What you are doing here is saying lets pretend the Other Project doesn't exist and build our own Project with our own rules, we'll show them.
This turns my stomach.
You wrote 5 pages of Rules. How many pages are you going to write about a Project Plan? Whats next Cooperate Earnings? |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 25, 2007, 3:48am
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W!ZARD
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An interesting conversation. I agree that collabaration via the internet is in it's pre-infancy and I'm intrigued to see what sort of coping mechanisms arise to deal with the new issues such collabaration raises.
Culturally most of the world is conditioned to think in terms of winners and losers and generating true team effort and collabaration is inded a hard task. We will all need to learn new ways to collabarate with each other in the future There is also a universal tendancy to think that 'we' are the best no matter what criteria actually define that 'we'.
Ultimately when an ideas time has come you can't stop it from gaining it's own momentum and it's own friction and opposition.
Steinie I see you are somewhat upset by this conversation. I'm not actually sure who it is you are talking to. 3dvisualsdude or Burisman?
For my part I feel I had no difficulty recognising the 'Usual Method' because I've seen it all before. Someone comes up with a truly inspiring idea which is often not thought through fully and limited by the inevitable lacks in each observers vision. Person A says "Lets build a ship". Everyone agrees this is a great idea and rushes off in an uncoordinated and enthusiastic splurge of creativity.
Next day we see some folk have built sailing ships some have built starships and some have made little boats out of folded newspaper. Ooops!
I base these obsetervations on my experience of music and theatre productions. Playing in a band or an orchestra or a theatrical troup requires focus discipline and effective direction. Individual ego's must be subsumed and surrendered for the duration of the production because the show must go on.
I suggest that a clearly visualised and specified outcome MUST be clearly defined before any chance of a satisfactory conclusion is possible. "The Usual Method" usually misses this crucial first step - begin with the end in mind.
Steinei you said "What you are doing here is saying lets pretend the Other Project doesn't exist and build our own Project with our own rules, we'll show them.". I did not take that meaning at all. I see a universal desire to participate and cooperate with some folk rushing off ahead of the pack, others triing to maintain some sense of coherence and others saying woah, lets not just rush off into the forest until we know exactly where we are all headed!
Effective projects can only arise from the consistent use of effective strategies - there is no right way or wrong ways just some ways that are more effective than others.
Just some thoughts...... |
Post by Steinie // Mar 25, 2007, 5:04am
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Steinie
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Burisman,
It was not you I was referring. Sorry I should have Quoted.
I followed 3dvisuals dude's post and know what he has said before. Then he creates meeting places, a complete station without anyone else's participation. Promises to address everyone questions to him and then ignores them. I am truly waiting for his response to other peoples questions because up to now it's been a one man show. He is doing exactly the opposite of what he is preaching. No snake tonic for me. I'm am not convinced he knows what collaboration means. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 25, 2007, 5:05am
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prodigy
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The concrete example here: I have nothing to complain about the space station project, so enthusiastically proposed by one of the forum members. I joined in gladly. There was a poll and a direction was chosen. That's fine. It's the way it goes. As this direction gradually diverged from my own interests , I gracefully bowed out.
Burisman; Now what is the problem?? i think the problem on the tsiss is the people start to wants to make their own ideas.. and start to say " I dont like this wy dont make this and this.." I give permision to anybody to change what they whants.. bUT the proyect became to distortioned.. and it bored..
I think My misstake was permision to anybody to give new ideas.. and on that point the proyect became a chaos..
My recomendation. IS ONE!! Mannager proyect..
By the way.. Im gonna finish the TSISS With or Without help.. im not going to leave that proyect alone on the unknown space... ;)
Good Luck to all |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 25, 2007, 5:22am
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RichLevy
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"How many amazingly gifted and creative 3D artist does it take to screw in a light bulb?"
The world will never know... for they will unfortunately spend hour apon hour debating the best angle, luminescent, soft light, hard light, do we want to have a Phong surface or Lambert, what is the value of the piece, does it fill a social need, will people understand the meaning and the symbolism? And the list goes on and on...
I doubt the TS community can support 2 collaborative projects right now, it would be nice to see all active and able people to the forums put at least a little effort into the current project so that when that one is done we can all work on this as our second project.
As for online collaboration, I've done a couple of projects online the last 3 years or so, the success of those projects was because of many different reasons
---A defined software pipeline and tools so that everyone was able to swap content.
---A means to readily access all content supplied for the project
---A well defined script to work from
script included
--- dialog
--- camera motion paths
--- needed assets and environments (basically sets)
--- placements of characters and movements
---A ready set forum for the artists to exchange ideals and crit each others work
---Artist with the talent, desire and software to commit to the project
I have been involved in only 2 collaborative projects that worked from the beginning to end. I have also been involved in dozens of projects that failed. Some immediately after conception, others months after the idea was born and artists were working on assets... The failed projects all had several things in common, lack of vision, lack of talented artists to carry out the vision, no central means to organize assets and artists...
Big long documents are nice, but sometimes it is better to work with the flow as opposed to pushing against it.
Rich |
Post by Steinie // Mar 25, 2007, 5:31am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Sorry guys I really do want this to work. Wouldn't have been better to get the Space Station DONE FIRST then say OK now how can we do the next one better?
Instead I read about another project run differently. The creative juices are currently at the wrong place.
This thread is describing 10 project managers but one poor guy in the hole with a shovel. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 25, 2007, 5:39am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Prodigy. There's no problem :) I liked the idea, but just could not find a way to do something useful withing that particular design, with my particular skills (I told you I am still on the start of the learning curve), I can't keep up with your blazing speed.
It's looking good the way it goes. Perhaps it wasn't smart of me to use it as an example here. I was just thinking in general about the issues surrounding collaboration, as mentioned by 3dvisuals. Sorry:rolleyes:
Bursman is not about speed.. is about work.. nobody catch a piece of the iss and says.. thats mine... i work on it.. it leave leave leave.. I must model all the Trueblues proyect again with proper dimetions on the collaboarated space untill 5am with trueBlue ..and know why?? because im sure nobody gonna move any polygon untill see something... Initiative guys INITIATIVE...
No problems with the people..... maybe needs more "enthusiasm".. thats all.. i can't give to that proyect the necessary enthusiasm at all.. |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 25, 2007, 7:01am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I hope this doesn't violate Rule 12(d) Subsection 6, but would you guys hurry up and get something built?
It's getting cold out here and I think my pee bag is getting full!
...oh yeah...and:
LIGHTEN UP, FRANCIS!:rolleyes: |
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