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TS7.5 Clues that it's getting close
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TS7.5 Clues that it's getting close // Roundtable
Post by Paul Boland // Mar 23, 2007, 9:42am
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Paul Boland
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What the email didn't show us...
Well Paul the Email announcing new features for 7.5 specifically says "hair" with no mention of fur. edit (I know it's just a wording issue)
Yeah, I noticed that too when I read the email but I've seen enough good hair based fur here to be satisifed that perhaps decent fur can be done with the new 7.5 hair. I've been onto Caligari customer service and have received an email back with all the info I need to order my copy of TrueSpace 7.5 through the post (don't have a credit card). So come Monday, I'll get it sorted and then wait eagerly for 7.5 to appear (and 6.6 since I'm still using version 5!) |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 25, 2007, 5:03am
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Bobbins
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I've thrown together a very quick test to show that the real difference between grass, fur and hair is merely a matter of length, colour, curl and diameter - they are all really different examples of the same thing. The renders below are the exact same scene with only changes to the "hair" parameters. It's not meant to be a perfect example of each type - such as hair doesn't really stand upright like this - it's just to show that twiddling a few knobs can easily make one type into another. In a properly set up scene with some time spent on it, the results would be far superior. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 25, 2007, 5:16am
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prodigy
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Nice images..im still thinking the problem is more the color than the shape..
The hair need to have diferent tones of color.. Dont know if that is posible at this time. but is something needed..
A good solution is add 2 hair sistems to the same object.. one with 1 color and the other with other... ;) maybe can be a (fast) solution..
Nice renders!! thanks for share!°! |
Post by Steinie // Mar 25, 2007, 5:21am
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Steinie
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Post like Bobbins just makes me drool...:)
If you alpha mapped the hair/fur couldn't you get various colors on each hair? Prodigy's suggestion could work too. I picture as one example short black hair, medium brown and longer yellow/brown. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 25, 2007, 5:21am
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HO!! yes... the other point is the fact to make dynamic hair or grass...I cant imagine a walking woman with a hair helm on his head... :(
Hehehe. and about clothing we still using hard cloth.. nothing about a dress... ;) |
Post by Paul Boland // Mar 25, 2007, 7:36am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Thanks, Bobbins. You've certainly laid to rest a lot of my questions about hair/fur.
Prodigy:
"Nice images..im still thinking the problem is more the color than the shape..
The hair need to have diferent tones of color..."
Yeah, that's the next key to success. Is it possible to add a texture to the hair/fur to give each strand a different range of colours? |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 25, 2007, 7:51am
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Bobbins
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Man, you guys are demanding! The NDA for testers is obviously restricted - we can post final renders from 7.5 as it is at the unfinished present without discussing how they were made. Bear in mind that 7.5 is still beta and not yet fiinalised. I think Roman would be proud if I said the following (sample, but unrealistic) render is a single 'hair' object with no alpha textures or doubling up. It's a straight render direct from the 'Player' with no retouching. Believe me, there are more important questions than 'can 7.5 render hair with more than one colour?". Caligari has done you proud and thought beyond those questions. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 25, 2007, 8:26am
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Bobbins, thats is what i need to see.. :) thanks.
You must understand, we are waiting for this release about 6 or more months.. only with pictures.. you have a beta, you know whats happend, but put in our shoes, posting bugs and we dont know if are solved, or hearing "another good stuff on Lightworks" but what good stuffs are talking about??
Thats why we need more info, i explain my point to TOM, but without a good result.
We must wait anohter 30 days to know for sure whats going on..
Again thanks for your Image answer.. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 25, 2007, 8:42am
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Jack Edwards
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*disclaimer*
Before contributing to this discussion I need to point out that I haven't played with the hair since the early proteam beta so I have no inside knowledge related to the current system and nothing should be inferred from my post.
*end disclaimer*
I completely agree about that the color should vary both per hair and over the length of the hair.
I'd like to point out that with animals the hair color is usually based on the skin color under the fur. Taking this idea to the 3D world, it might be interesting to see the hair object take color for individual hairs based on a mapped "skin" texture. That would be pretty cool for creating fur color patterns, like tiger striping, mackerel and classic tabby patterns in cats, wolf colorations, white streaks, etc..
Hair also has translucency and some colors in animals vary over the length of the hair both in color and transparency. I can give examples in cats since that is what I am familiar with. Silver cats have hair that is white and translucent at the root but gets darker and less transparent towards the tips. Brown Tabbies (genetically black with the agouti modifier) for example can have the hair color per hair actually sort of jumbled up or randomized on the same hair by an effect called "ticking". I think dog people call the effect "brindle". Any case hairs that should normally be brown would be brown-tan-brown-tan. The effect isn't uniform and actually increases at the borders between two hair colors. Blue (visually gray) cats have hair that is a bit more translucent and the pigment in the hair oval shaped instead of spherical, which causes the light to reflect back with a different quality, duller -- almost seems to absorb light.
So there are very specific issues internal to the pigment structure of the hair that would make hair realistic looking and might be impractical to simulate. Though I have to admit that your image has me intrigued, Bobbins! :)
-Jack. |
Post by frootee // Mar 25, 2007, 9:09am
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frootee
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Hey is that George Clinton posing for ya? (We Got Da Funk....) |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 25, 2007, 9:38am
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Bobbins
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Would that be George Clinton in the P-Funk or Parliament days?......
OK, I am seriously off topic here, now! |
Post by frootee // Mar 25, 2007, 4:13pm
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frootee
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aw man, not sure about whether it's Da Funk or the Old Parliament, though I like the song :p
but to get back on track with the topic,
that hair clump did remind me of George Clinton, with the multiple colors.
And that is exactly what some folks here are looking for. Creating hair
with the new hair modules in 7.5. Mm-Hm. Da-mn Right. Yeah.
Frootee |
Post by TomG // Mar 26, 2007, 5:47am
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TomG
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"Thats why we need more info, i explain my point to TOM, but without a good result."
Because the NDA was not relaxed, features were less well developed, known items that would make it into release were not confirmed, and more. I did answer, which was that we couldnt answer just yet.
Sorry that wasn't a "good result" - but we have to wait to be close to release before going ahead with this sort of info as explained. Just one week ago, none of this information was ready for release, which is why it wasn't released....
HTH,
Tom |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2007, 5:55am
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Steinie
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If you guys sent out an email saying 7.5 is finished why is there still a NDA? Even now you guys won't answer questions about the new UV and Mapping tools. |
Post by Paul Boland // Mar 26, 2007, 8:35am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Thanks again, Bobbins. The hair ball looks good, appreciate it.
I'd like to point out that with animals the hair color is usually based on the skin color under the fur. Taking this idea to the 3D world, it might be interesting to see the hair object take color for individual hairs based on a mapped "skin" texture. That would be pretty cool for creating fur color patterns, like tiger striping, mackerel and classic tabby patterns in cats, wolf colorations, white streaks, etc...
I really like this idea. A LOT!! Don't suppose this is way TrueSpace 7.5's hair/fur will function? Or any chance of getting it in before 7.5 goes gold?
If you guys sent out an email saying 7.5 is finished why is there still a NDA? Even now you guys won't answer questions about the new UV and Mapping tools.
I remember reading a post elsewhere that 7.5 is still in development. It's release date is 30 odd days but it's not gone gold yet. So that's probably why they still can't answer all the queries being posted by us. |
Post by TomG // Mar 26, 2007, 10:49am
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Correct Paul :) Do note that testers can show images, but not discuss the features used to make them or show the tools and process for making them in the images. Changes can happen in software right up to the day before pressing!
And that is why there is still an NDA :) Once the version is out for download, people will be free to comment as they are on all versions of tS, but up until that day of actual release, the program is not released, is still in dev, and still has NDA.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by jayr // Mar 26, 2007, 11:06am
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jayr
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i hope the server you're using is really robust cause this forum is going to be soooo busy when the download is available! There's going to be pictures and comments flying everywhere as people start exploring the new features. |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2007, 11:20am
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Steinie
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They hope so!:) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 26, 2007, 12:35pm
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Jack Edwards
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Of course it may go the other way and the forums might get real quiet as everyone is spending time playing with their new toys. :D
-Jack. |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2007, 12:59pm
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Steinie
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I can hear it now from my wife..."Steinie stop playing with your hair!"....:D |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2007, 3:10pm
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prodigy
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Tom i write a preaty large story telling you why i think we need more info..
But Firefox crash and i lost all my post.. Ithink its something about destiny hehehe..
Im gonna wait with my mouth shuted..
:rolleyes: |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2007, 3:32pm
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Steinie
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Prodigy, Firefox crashed and you lost your letter AND you lost Roman's ear!!! You need some sleep!:D |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2007, 5:43pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hehehe.. its true.. im gonna be sick.. I found a object.. with the ear!! is not the last model but is indeed IS the Original Roman's EAR!!
HOOOO HAHAHA I HAVE AN IDEA!! :banana: |
Post by Paul Boland // Apr 12, 2007, 7:59am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Wohoo!! TrueSpace 6.6 arrived in the post today. I've installed it and had a quick look around. Looking forward to delving into the manual and seeing what new tools I have to play with over version 5. Now I just have to wait for 7.5 to ship. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 12, 2007, 11:22am
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Steinie
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Paul,
I personally don't think you have much of a wait! I hope your a speed reader.:)
Base on everything said so far and my gut feeling.... we will be happy in less than a week. My money is on next Thursday.
Here is my reasons:
1) If delivered on Friday and there a problems would you want to work the weekend?
2) They delivered truePlay on a Friday and there were problems:rolleyes:
3) We are the coolest Customers in the World and deserve it soon!!!
4) If they want to prove me wrong they can deliver it on Wednesday:D
5) Roman secretly wants to see Prodigy's Ear animated. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 12, 2007, 11:28am
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prodigy
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LOL!! mmm about that.. I must send my Vray pre release Upgrade very SOON! !!!! :D |
Post by stoker // Apr 12, 2007, 12:01pm
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stoker
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Paul,
My money is on next Thursday.
Here is my reasons:
1) If delivered on Friday and there a problems would you want to work the weekend?
2) They delivered truePlay on a Friday and there were problems:rolleyes:
3) We are the coolest Customers in the World and deserve it soon!!!
4) If they want to prove me wrong they can deliver it on Wednesday:D
5) Roman secretly wants to see Prodigy's Ear animated.
To be honest I didn't think it would be this soon. I sure hope it is though:D
I see your point though about releasing it on a Friday:rolleyes: |
Post by Paul Boland // Apr 13, 2007, 8:30am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Thanks, Steinie. Most of the manual is the same as the TrueSpace 5 one so no need to read it all. Have to say, I LOVE the array tool. Been messing with the particles but haven't made much headway with them. Also looked at the facial animator but haven't jused it enough to comment but it looks promising. The interface is slightly different over version 5 but wait till version 7.5 arrives, I'll be lost! LOL!
LOL!! mmm about that.. I must send my Vray pre release Upgrade very SOON! !!!! :D
Yeah, about that, where is the "What's new in 1.5" list? It's less then a week before the pre-order expires and my decission of taking the plunge is based on what the list has to say. |
Post by rj0 // Apr 13, 2007, 5:03pm
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Yeah, about that, where is the "What's new in 1.5" list? It's less then a week before the pre-order expires and my decission of taking the plunge is based on what the list has to say.
Yes. I feel the same way. I really want to know what's new in V-Ray 1.5. It's getting near release time, there's no "What's new" list, and, heck, I still haven't even received an email on it (upgrade pricing, etc.). Makes one feel like one is going blind into this. Caligari, can we get something happening here?
rj |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 14, 2007, 6:26am
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I think it will be tomorrow(NOT!),... No, seriously everything points to soon, web sites are up, small interviews of beta testers(RC11 none the less) so now..I'm assuming, they are in the final bug squash fest and will release on a monday...it is also rounding up the tax season, a good time to launch when people have money and there are no major holidays $$$. Money/profit is the bottom line, they keep the users happy, they round up new users, then they get to feed their families.
my est....16th apr-19th, if anything else this could, at least, bring a laugh later. |
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