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Vray skin and hair
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Vray skin and hair // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Apr 8, 2007, 12:34am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just to show a bit of Vray (and I am no expert, but having fun).
Here is a bit of basic SSS and then the same sphere with hair applied. One is reflectance, the other is displacement so you can have both together.
This is not the same as the new fur system though...so even more choice there then...:D And in the hands of a more experienced Vray user...well, that is impressive. I represent the 'ordinary' early Vray user...:D
First image was done in Xp...second was done in Vista on same machine a few hours later after I installed it...hence different toolbar. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 8, 2007, 3:05am
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Happy Easter Splinter.. and thanks for share..
The right hand image, its like my arm.. hehehehe (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/attachment.php?attachmentid=4349&d=1171624053) |
Post by Vizu // Apr 8, 2007, 3:19am
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I see some squares on the left ball.
Looks like a VRay problem. |
Post by parva // Apr 9, 2007, 12:18am
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parva
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yes. What you see are render buckets. A general tS-Vray problem. You see it less or stronger at each render depending on the used material. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 9, 2007, 3:09am
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and that problem will be fixed?? on Vray 1.5??????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: |
Post by Ambrose // Apr 9, 2007, 3:34am
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Can't find it now but Tom menthioned a fix for some black lines etc. that occured becuse of something bla bla.
Anyway think it fits in here, and if so it's fixed, sorry if another bug ;)
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by prodigy // Apr 9, 2007, 3:36am
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BOOO!!!....
I think they must add the list of non fixed known bugs, and New Bugs.. :( |
Post by Ambrose // Apr 9, 2007, 3:48am
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post 22, be your own judge... ;)
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1505
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by prodigy // Apr 9, 2007, 4:34am
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Parva.. on your Avatar, you use the same new skin vray shader?? hehehehe.. you have that shader for a long time!! :D |
Post by Leif // Apr 9, 2007, 5:28am
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Post 22 says
so black "tints" the reflections black, ie they disappear.
Parva says
What you see are render buckets. A general tS-Vray problem.
The SSS is not black, and does not reflect.
This is not the issue of post 22. Maybe it is a cache 22, but certainly not the same issue as that of tinting reflections black.
So...
If this is a general tS-Vray problem... (Parva seems to know a whole lot about Vray since he uses it with max at work as I have understood) than it should affect almost every render to some degree or another.
Should raise eyebrows. |
Post by splinters // Apr 9, 2007, 6:20am
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splinters
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Guys, before we start a Vray witch hunt, I have other Vray images that do not have artefacts, I did not even see them here so I do not know what caused then but there are plenty of Vray options I didn't explore one of which is texture quality...another is AA settings, so see what your own results are before presuming this is just a Vray thing. Here is another test scene based on the same material and lights etc. Maybe I just tweaked something...:rolleyes: |
Post by Vizu // Apr 9, 2007, 6:25am
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much more better but i see a small white pixel under the sphere and what is with the wire lines on the ground texture ? on the left side is a broken part of a line. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 9, 2007, 6:48am
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Vizu, i know what are you talking about the non continued line is cos you must set the render at x4 or x3 to get that.. thats happend on vr1.0 too..
And the white point it must be for a low or mid GI quality level..im sure that can be easy fixed..
Splinters, thanks... that shader looks good. maybe the problem whas like a dual core procesor, or hyper threading.. who knows.. i fell much better now.. 8)
Thanks |
Post by Steinie // Apr 9, 2007, 7:11am
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I have lower standards I felt great before:) |
Post by splinters // Apr 9, 2007, 7:40am
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Splinters, thanks... that shader looks good. maybe the problem whas like a dual core procesor, or hyper threading.. who knows.. i fell much better now.. 8)
Thanks
No problem, I am no vray expert...just messing around with it. There are many more accomplished users than me...I just like to share what I have done...:) |
Post by prodigy // Apr 9, 2007, 8:39am
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I know Splinters, thanks for share.. Your avatar looks cool with that shader.. :)
I hope pay my Vray upgrade this week..
Seeya |
Post by Steinie // Apr 9, 2007, 9:52am
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Steinie
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Prodigy, Vizu and Parva should have been first in line for VRay!:) Your VRay Masters! |
Post by parva // Apr 9, 2007, 10:38am
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If this is a general tS-Vray problem... (Parva seems to know a whole lot about Vray since he uses it with max at work as I have understood) than it should affect almost every render to some degree or another.
I can't be sure (I'm not a programmer) but it looks definitivly a material problem there Caligari has to create own materials for tS<->vray and espacially the new materials like sss (which will get a renovation) and glossiness are materials where you can see the "bucket"-squares. I spotted these squares in my turrican render where I used the glossiness shader. It looks like the bucket rendering is somwhow engrave in the render (difficult to describe).
And yes I never spotted those problems in vray for 3ds. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 9, 2007, 5:42pm
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the "bucket problem" spawns form the # of irradiance samples vs the # of interpolation samples vs the bucket size...low settings usually end up in these artifacts(low sample/high interpolation) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 9, 2007, 6:12pm
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In which case it wouldn't be a bug. I think a lot of getting high quality images out of VRay is about the settings especially since it's a "lossy" render method -- part of what makes VRay renders look more organic I think. It's not generating pristine and computer exact ray traces, but rather approximating light bouncing into a sort of "good enough match".
I actually think the blotchiness caused by low GI settings can be very useful to help give "life" to materials that don't have a lot of detail and can create a randomness in the apparent distribution of light. It's also helps to break up areas of solid color that would be unnatural in the real world even if the effect is more subtle as quality settings are increased.
My guess is that the line dissapearing artifact in Splinter's render is using the low quality textures setting which shortens the setup time by the renderer. The artifacts could easily be caused by an aliasing or compression issue in the texture.
All that said even with it's quirks, V-Ray is light years ahead of Lightworks in terms of overall image quality, its just in a different league. I'm very happy that Caligari has recognized that and I'm hoping that work on the V-ray side of things has intensified since it is without a doubt (other than DX10) the future of TS rendering.
-Jack. |
Post by parva // Apr 9, 2007, 11:27pm
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the "bucket problem" spawns form the # of irradiance samples vs the # of interpolation samples vs the bucket size...low settings usually end up in these artifacts(low sample/high interpolation)
maybe but the settings I used for the t-scene was all very high.
At least the problem seams to be solved with the new vray sdk in ts7.5 there I don't see this in the render anymore (same settings of course).
5276
left new - right old
saturated and contrast increase. Good to see the blocks at the right site.
A 1:1 render in lighting conditions isn't possible yet there the glossiness shader tends to create much brighter reflections. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 10, 2007, 6:10am
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I did not mean to imply that I know all about vray, but it is a common problem when the interpolation can drasticly change and the model is dense, organic, and has concave surfaces...when a bucket barely touches a very dark or light area and the irradiance map has focus on that dark or light area, but not overall good coverage then the adjacent bucket...which is on a smooth evenly covered area, contrasts a bit against the other one.....uhhh yeah...what was I saying, I lost myself...anyway, it's good that the problem has been resolved..I don't see how, but all is possible..now if we could just adjust the bucket size and AA settings separately. |
Post by Leif // Apr 10, 2007, 6:18am
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..then are the hairless SSS sphere rendered with tS-VRay 1.0 ? |
Post by parva // Apr 10, 2007, 7:20am
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now if we could just adjust the bucket size and AA settings separately.
:D oh yes, I wished that too... oh yes, but it seams to remain a dream :o |
Post by splinters // Apr 10, 2007, 7:52am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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..then are the hairless SSS sphere rendered with tS-VRay 1.0 ?
All the spheres I have posted here are in Vray 1.5 beta. The avatar I just posted in the 'wanna real avatar' thread is Vray 1.5 and I used 3x AA with high quality textures. Apart from the mesh and texture needing work, the image itself is very clean and well lit...:) |
Post by splinters // Apr 18, 2007, 11:06pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Need another reason to buy Vray?
Well, look at this top image from 1 week ago when I started messing with Vray and fur...compare it with the bottom image just 1 week later after generating a decent head mesh, playing with the new hair generation tools in 7.5 and generally experimenting.
And I don't even work in this more 'realistic' genre, This is not 1 long hard week of work, just exploring the possibilities. And this renders real fast...:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 18, 2007, 11:30pm
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W!ZARD
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I don't need a reason to buy vray - I need the money! :( :(
This is very cool work Paul. I like the play of light on the skin. The hair looks great - how does get textured? Like any other object? I'm asking coz I was wondering how it would look with a bit of glossiness to represent highlights.
Also have you tried a LW render using the same hair settings? |
Post by splinters // Apr 18, 2007, 11:39pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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LW doesn't look so good with hair at the moment Wizard...as for texture, I havent explored that yet...:)
I am working on a hand today. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 19, 2007, 1:59am
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So far all the hair examples (not just yours) has looked "puffy" Is there any examples out there of hair laying flat. Heidi's is combed but also puffy. I want the combed look. (Splinters you might need a Dictionary for the meaning of comb:D ) |
Post by kena // Apr 19, 2007, 3:53am
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I agree. the angle of growth of all the hair I've seen so far has been 90 degrees from the object. Real hair tends to look like it is growing at a lower angle due to the weight. |
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