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ts6 -> ts7 ... should I?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
ts6 -> ts7 ... should I? // Roundtable
Post by ctrueman // Apr 19, 2007, 10:53am
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ctrueman
Total Posts: 1
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I'm a casual user of ts6 using it largely for fun and some occasional business graphics. I've run it on various machines - current a Dell M90 - and have found stability to always be an issue.
I like the look of many of the new tools in ts7.5 and with the special early bird upgrade offer and giving it some thought. But really I'd like to know from people that have already begun the ts7.x line whether it is more stable than 6.6.
Comments welcomed. |
Post by splinters // Apr 19, 2007, 11:22am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Best of both worlds really...ts6.6 features for familiarity and compatibilty, new features of workspace built on new architecture. It is still in Beta but it is looking good...:) |
Post by Délé // Apr 19, 2007, 11:43am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I'd say keep in mind that tS 7.x is two architectures in one. The model side uses the 6.6 architecture and thus has all the bugs and stability issues of 6.6. The new architecture (where all the new tools are getting written in) is MUCH more robust and stable.
I found that the new abilities in 7.1 such as the Link Editor, opened many powerful possibilities that were not possible in 6.6, so 7.5 can only be better still. With all the new tools advertised for 7.5, it might just be a good time to take the leap. :) |
Post by trueBlue // Apr 19, 2007, 12:28pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Without a doubt you will have no regrets. I bought trueSpace7.0 in a Pre Release special that included tS6.6 for free. I think that I have opened 6.6 about 10 times since. tS7 is a ton of fun with the new D3D real time view, interactivity, scripting, physics, collaboration, configurable UI, etc... And to top it off you also have the Legacy side built right inside with several improvements. Now with upcoming tS7.5 and all of the improvements and additions they have made will most likely send me over the edge. Upgrading from tS6.6 to tS7.5 would be a "No Brainier", IMMHO. Especially with the Pre Release offer! |
Post by Tiles // Apr 19, 2007, 9:28pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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One of the main problems with all trueSpace versions is the lack of bugfixes once it is released. The point upgrades always just covers some parts of it. And never catches all. The other bugs may be fixed in the next mayour release then. But a new mayour release means new bugs. And some bugs lasts forever, staying from version to version, getting even worse sometimes. And so no stable trueSpace version around since years. You are always a lucky guy when the tools you need for your personal case has at least a workaround for the bugs.
For me it was the other way around than for trueblue: i have TS 6.6 and TS 7.11. And am back to TS 6.6 for now. TS 7.11 gave me too much trouble. Not only because of the bridge hassle ( in my opinion the biggest mistake ever), the unintuitive GUI, and the old and new introduced bugs. The modeler part, which is the old TS 6.6 core with some improvements, is finally too buggy to work with. At least for me. I still need working native bones from time to time. And i need a working UV Mapping Editor. The Playerside, which is the new TS, was pretty useless because it lacks of tools ( yeah i know, you can do everything with scripting. I personally need a graphics software to create graphics, and not to write script code or create spaghetti in the LE though). That was the point where i finally went back to TS 6.6. That for TS 7.11.
Well, those two parts are redone in the Playerside now in TS 7.5. And lots of other functionality is also ported to Playerside. So it may be worth it. I definitely have a use for the new bones. I have preordered it. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 20, 2007, 1:25am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Tomaytoes and tomartoes I think. For the last couple of months I have using tS7.11 with the bridge turned off and doing all my work in the modeller (Ts 6.6) side. It has several inconsistencies that frustrate me - I've yet to figure out how to Hot Key the render scene button and the Look At Object button for example - which has caused me to change some of my prefered work habits but this is made up amply by the greater robustness - lots less crashes on bigger models/scenes than tS 6.6 - and a generally nicer interface IMHO.
Going back to tS6.6 now I find I get distracted by the cartoony and over bright icons that I used to take for granted! (Big ups to Splinters for the new ones!).
I don't agree with Tiles comment about the bridge being a mistake - I actually think it was a brilliant and innovative solution to a tricky problem - but I do agree with him that the modelling toolset in tS 7.11's player side lacks a useful set of tools (although I do like the soft selection options). This lack has apparently been effectively addressed in tS 7.5 however (rubs hands with gleeful anticipation!).
You can crash any software if you don't drive it appropriately - I've found that tS 7.11 - at least the way I've been using it - is reasonably stable.
For a long time I never had a credit card - Because of the pre-release offer pricing I went to my bank and arranged a credit card specifically so I could order tS 7.5. Imagine how happy I was when I got home from town that day to find that I had won this months monthly Caligari Gallery and so could claim tS 7.5 as my prize! I tell you this so you can see how convinced I am that tS 7.5 will be very well worth the investment - especially at the current pre-release prices.
Hope This Helps
WZRD |
Post by mykyl1966 // Apr 20, 2007, 2:08am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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I didn't know there were prizes for Gallery images? Weird. I might have entered then. lol.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 20, 2007, 2:24am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I didn't know there were prizes for Gallery images? Mike R
Hi Mike. Check out this page (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/contest.asp?Cate=GImages), accessed from the link beneath the (2d) gallery thumbnails. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Apr 20, 2007, 3:07am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Wow, I never knew that. I have to get into that then. :) Gives me a focus to create.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by splinters // Apr 20, 2007, 4:05am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Going back to tS6.6 now I find I get distracted by the cartoony and over bright icons that I used to take for granted! (Big ups to Splinters for the new ones!).
WZRD
Thanks for that...good to know my hard work is not in vain. If it makes you feel any happier (is that possible?) the icons in 7.5 are much nicer...all cleaned up and matching the darker UI. Workspace has 'nearly all' the main tools you need now...I made a hand in there today...forgot we had modeller for a while..:)
I cannot believe how far away in terms of UI and features, tS7.11 seems now...you are gonna love it.
Oh, and I just spent my last gallery win credit on the Vray 1.5 upgrade...I could not get by without it now...:D :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 20, 2007, 5:12am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Gives me a focus to create.
Yeah mate - it certainly works that way for me. Working toward a deadline each month helps me stay focused - mind you I would enter the contest even if there wasn't actual prizes for that reason. I used to find the same thing occured when I was gigging - having a performance booked for a specific date was a huge incentive to practice my playlists!
@Splinters, yeah Paul it's probably possible for me to feel happier if I mix up my medication! I must admit that I really love the darker interface I've seen in recent screen grabs of tS7.5. No doubt some folk won't like having to learn new icons but that does not worry me - the human brain is a pattern recognition device and will quickly acclimatise to any changes.
I'm rather looking forward to playing with the new modelling tools - the snippets I've seen so far have me fairly drooling.
Re V-ray. I had been slowly putting dribs and drabs of money aside to cover the upgrade to tS7.5 but as soon as my wife discovered that I'd won sufficient credit to cover that cost my savings were gone! On something called household necessities, whatever they are. I didn't even get chance to consider putting it toward V-ray. LOL, she was possibly even happier than I was about winning! (not really, she's my greatest fan but can't understand why anyone would need another renderer. Shrug). |
Post by Ambrose // Apr 20, 2007, 5:35am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Ahh, now what I read about player sounds so good!!!
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by splinters // Apr 20, 2007, 6:11am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Wizard...icons are new and improved but will look very familiar...:D So don't worry about that.
Ambrose...let us all get the language right in anticipation of 7.5 release;
PLAYER is now WORKSPACE...:D :D |
Post by Emmanuel // Apr 20, 2007, 9:19am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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I'd say keep in mind that tS 7.x is two architectures in one. The model side uses the 6.6 architecture and thus has all the bugs and stability issues of 6.6. The new architecture (where all the new tools are getting written in) is MUCH more robust and stable.
May I refut this ?
Although Modeler is using 6.6 legacy code, its architecture is somehow different and most of its remaining bugs have been fixed.
- The "paint big texture on object larger than the screen" bug that made tS to crash is fixed. tS7.5 Modeler is using a more robust texture management.
- The paste command in menu that was working at random in 6.6 is fixed.
- The "tooltips on" bug that was deleting your numerical entries is fixed.
- The UV projection bug in 7.1 Modeler is fixed.
- The view rotation around object via middle mouse button is faster and now really usable.
- You can customise the icons that were glued in the bottom line in 6.6 UI. In other words, you can create a custom toolbar with all your Views to switch from Top View to Perspective in one clic rather than clic&drag.
- X, Y and Z axis toggles are bigger.
- You can room the Status Line at any location : bottom, top, or even in the stack view
- You can save a custom PE toolbar (not possible in 7.1)
- The frame number for animation is back among the icons in the animation toolbar (was removed in 7.1)
- Texture shader in shader library is at the 2nd rank, just after the plain color shader (was 17th in tS6.6, forcing you to scroll to the right to pick it up every time you want to texture an object). Idem for bitmap bump map : it is also 2nd, just after the None bump.
- Material editor contains a Material Library tool (= MatMaster Pro extension), very handy to replace a given material on every objects of the scene at once .
Etc, etc...
Really, Modeler is like a tS6.6 "gold". Even if you belive you won't need hair, collaboration or character animation features, it is worth the upgrade ! |
Post by trueBlue // Apr 20, 2007, 10:33am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Wizard...icons are new and improved but will look very familiar...:D So don't worry about that.
Ambrose...let us all get the language right in anticipation of 7.5 release;
PLAYER is now WORKSPACE...:D :D
MODELER is and always has been MODEL :p |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 21, 2007, 5:14am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Wizard...icons are new and improved but will look very familiar...:D So don't worry about that.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination - and besides I'm a fan of yours so I am sure the icons are in very safe and capable hands: I'm just itching to get them under MY hands! |
Post by Burnart // Apr 22, 2007, 1:26pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I admit to missing info and getting things confused but am I interpreting something said above correctly - the hair in 7.5 will be playerside only? No Lightworks hair or VRay hair? Please correct me if I'm wrong. (Now to the main subject.)
I have had 6.6 crash (only a fraction as much as 3.2!) but I found it much more stable on the newer computer I got about 14 months ago. I think 7.1 is more stable still but not everything works on the modelside. 7.5 should be a vast improvement and I'm very much looking forward to it. (Funny thing, finding what doesn't work in 7.1 modelside has taught me a lot about what is good and useful in 6.6! After over a year of 7.1 I know 6.6 much better - go figure.)
I say update to 7.5 - just go for it. :) |
Post by splinters // Apr 22, 2007, 1:31pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Realtime hair in player, renders in LW and Vray...what more could you want? ;)
Vray has a fur shader as well...different thing altogether really. |
Post by wigmo // Apr 23, 2007, 5:35am
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wigmo
Total Posts: 40
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I've been thinking about this upgrade as well, from 6.6 at work at 5 at home to version 7+. I think a huge selling point for me would to be able to (as a marketing service on Caligari's part) to take some existing models/scenes and show the difference in render quality between lightwave and vray. With this, I could take a before and after and have a tangible example for the guy that controls the wallet to say "Hey, there is an immediate benefit and here is the proof in the pudding."
-Shawn |
Post by splinters // Apr 23, 2007, 6:29am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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As has been explained before you cannot simply render a scene with LW or Vray...well, you can but there are special Vray materials and LW materials...they often need to be tweaked to get the best from each render engine. Same with lighting as well...:o |
Post by Burnart // Apr 23, 2007, 12:58pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Thanks Splinters for straightening me out. I bought into the vers 7 on pre-release so I'm eligible for the 7.5 update. I'd love to get VRay and join the proteam but as a hobbiest on a not particulary great wage I simply can't afford it so I'm glad the hair is gonna work in Lightworks - I'll have to wait for fur. (I just emptied my coin jar and used it to buy a digital camera - this time round I'm saving for VRay - last time around it paid for a big chunk of my vers 7 update!) |
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