|
|
To vray or not vray?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
To vray or not vray? // Roundtable
Post by spyfrog // May 1, 2007, 11:20am
|
spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
|
Ok, this isn't perhaps the best question to ask but I do it anyway:
Should I add vray to my Truespace 7.5 order?
The new payment plan makes it much more affordable.
I am sure that Caligari would like me to do that, but I would like some 3rd party opinion.
I am a quite infrequent user of TS, is it really worth the money? I have used TS since 4.3 but never really mastered it, having love for it but lacking in talent.. As I have understod, only some of TS 7.5's functions require vray - most seams to work with the built in Lightworks engine?
How much better in render quality is this vray version compared to the new Lightworks engine that TS 7 has?
I think that Vray beats the heck out of TS 6.6's built in renderer but I guess that Lightworks also has been updated since then? Also, all I have to compare with and base this is on is my own attempts against more professional images made in other softwares by other more skilled artist.
Does anyone have any good examples of differences? How much does Vray and Lightwork differs when it comes to quality, speed etc?
We are talking about something that almost doubles the price tag of the software so I believe it has to be quite good to justify the cost...
/Best regards
Mathias |
Post by prodigy // May 1, 2007, 11:27am
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
As allways i said... The answer is YES!! 100% YES.. I recomends you use Vray.. |
Post by Morgan // May 1, 2007, 12:28pm
|
Morgan
Total Posts: 138
|
As allways i said... The answer is YES!! 100% YES.. I recomends you use Vray..
OK, but as someone else who is on the fence about spending a few more hundred dollars, can you tell us why?
What specific advantages does Vray offer? Is there something that it can do that Lightworks can't? |
Post by Steinie // May 1, 2007, 12:41pm
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
There are at least three threads that I would read about VRay already discussed here. One has examples, another discuss the pro points about purchasing, the third talks about a future library for VRay that will be for all users once 7.5 is out. I have it and love it, however I also love Lightworks too. Both have their plus and minuses base on the "Look" you want.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=399&highlight=vray
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2275&highlight=vray
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=755&highlight=vray |
Post by prodigy // May 1, 2007, 1:47pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Ok..
Let's see from this point of view..
1) Render speed??? i show in other threads how fast render compared than Lightworks..
*Point To Vray..
Vray 1.0 (dont know 1.5) doesnt have mapped shader.
*Point to Lightworks..
Vray 1.0 (Don't know 1.5) doesnt support multi layers.
*Point to Lightworks
Vray 1.0 have Caustics.. lightworks not. + You can save the Caustic calculation.. HALF POINT!
*Point and a half to Vray..
Lightworks have Darktree Shaders and Shader Magic. Vray not..
*Point to Lightworks for have thirdparty shaders..
Vray have bouning lights..
*Point to Vray.
Vray have DOF next version 1.5
*Point to Vray.
Lightworks is multiprocesor, Vray too
DRAW POINT
Vray have SUBSURFACE SCATTER, Lightworks just Transucent Plastic
*Point to Vray.
Animation Support in 7.11 wins lightworks.. but about vray 1.5 is fully animation support.
By now wins lightworks..
And finaly how many CG users, Max users, Maya Users, Softimage XSI users.... How many use lightworks and how many are still using a software without Global illumination??
OK... you win a combo of 2 points for Vray.. Because you use a highend render engine, leader on Render engines, is a fact CG comunity choose Vray as a standar
My final result is
Vray 7.5 ~ Lightworks 4
Take this as a joke but with truly points.. IMO if Vray doesn't have Global Illumination maybe still better Lightworks.. The Bouncing lights are esentials at this time, better if you combine Caustics with Global Illumination and good shaders like SSS or Fresnel to make glass..
Thats my opinion.. ;)
AND A PLUS.. I must to say, Vray was the BEST of THE BEST choices by Caligari SO FAR! |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 1, 2007, 2:13pm
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Prodigy you forgot to mention the fact that you can add just one spot light, check the global illumination box, the soft shadows box, and have a very nice V-Ray render.
I agree with Prodigy. HELL YES get V-Ray!
I don't even use Lightworks anymore since getting V-Ray. V-Ray is light years ahead of Lightworks for production quality renders, but it's big limitation right now is the lack of mapped shaders. I'm with Prodigy in that I hope that gets added for 1.5, if not, it'd be nice if it's included in a free (or inexpensive) patch later......... ;)
...that or expose the V-Ray API so we can write our own shaders... which would allow 3rd party shaders to be added for V-Ray like we have for Lightworks...
-Jack. |
Post by mykyl1966 // May 1, 2007, 2:13pm
|
mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
|
Sorry for hijacking the thread but it is to do with Vray itself. Why don't vray materials on the net work within Vray for Truespace?
Is it possible to recreate these materials within TS 7.5? If so is this explained in the manual clearly enough?
I know I sound thick but I have never used a third party render engine before. :) (I just used the built in engine in Modo etc).
I have also ordered Vray 1.5. This is just a question that came to mind.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by prodigy // May 1, 2007, 2:34pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Prodigy you forgot to mention the fact that you can add just one spot light, check the global illumination box, the soft shadows box, and have a very nice V-Ray render.
-Jack.
Know why Jack i dont mentioned this because you can do the same in Lightworks with IBL lights...
HOO!!! i forget..
A bad point on VRAY 1.0 it doesnt work with Gionometric Lights (IES) :(
7.5 vs 5 |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 1, 2007, 2:37pm
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
My guess would be because those V-Ray materials are specific to 3dsMax's material system. Solving that would give TrueSpace users access to serious professional level material libraries.
@ Prodigy:
Yeah but you'd be waiting a LONG time for that render in Lightworks... :p
-Jack. |
Post by prodigy // May 1, 2007, 2:54pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Ok.. then give a half point to Vray :)
Vray 8 ~ Lightworks 5
UPS!! i forget...
Lightworks have multy pass render..
Point to Lightworks in 7.11
8 vs 6 |
Post by nowherebrain // May 1, 2007, 4:18pm
|
nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
|
Multi pass does not necessarily = good.
not necessarily = bad either...but,
when have you used multi pass rendering in lightworks?
if you are refering to passes as in motion blur, then that can actually be far slower than Vray motion blur. I believe we will be getting that in the 1.5 upgrade. I'm possibly wrong here. That does not mean you can't quote me. Please do, it's funny.
if you are refering to passes as in DOF...lightworks DOF is a hack IMO. Don't touch it...or you will go blind.(just like mom said)
My vote is for Vray, so long as you have the money. Besides go do some homework, watch some videos of Vrays use and then decide. If you want it, go get it. If you can't afford it, save your pennies untill you can. Pennies come and go, but great renderers...come and go.. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 1, 2007, 5:03pm
|
ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
|
I think multipass may refer to the fact that you can render different layers to a .psd file for compositing. This feature was originally accomplished via the iPak plug-in (illustrator's pak) for tS6.6
I would agree that Vray is very worthwhile. Fast rendering is probably the best argument I know for it. Caustics are the 2nd.
Any comprehensive comparision of renderers shouldn't forget our new built-in friend "Virtualight". Haven't seen too many use that product but it too has caustics and plenty of capabilites |
Post by prodigy // May 1, 2007, 5:23pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
For me the best argument is the light bounces (GI).. 2nd the render speed..
You use caustics only when you use glass and you need to see that specific object.. Its not important for me..
Any user know what needs. ;) |
Post by brotherx // May 2, 2007, 5:51am
|
brotherx
Total Posts: 538
|
I was trying to make an object translucent so light would pass through it. Can this be done with TS6.6 or do you need a later version and/or VRay to do this? |
Post by e-graffiti // May 2, 2007, 7:09am
|
e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
|
I was trying to make an object translucent so light would pass through it. Can this be done with TS6.6 or do you need a later version and/or VRay to do this?
Hello brotherx, you may want to ask this question in another thread that is more appropriate for your question so this thread is not hijacked (the police will come and get you :) . But to quickly answer your question. If you are reffering to "tranparency" of a shadow as light shines through an object like glass, you can get that effect by using a shader that has "transmission" like glass and crank up the transmission, then setting your key light to have "shadow tranparency". tS also has a transparency shader located on the color shader that will make both your object and its shadow "transparent" if you have shadow transparency turned on for your light shadow settings. Hope this helps. |
Post by Paul Boland // May 2, 2007, 9:16am
|
Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
|
Still waiting to hear about animated textures in VRay 1.5... It's a huge area for me to be able to map a AVI onto a surface and have it play over the course of an animation, but so far there has been no conformation of this for VRay 1.5 (unless I missed it). Also, my funds are quite low at the moment so that's another hurdle for me. But if I got this bit of news, that animated textures were in VRay 1.5, I don't know how, but I'd swing the funds needed to add it to my TrueSpace 7.5 order. But with only 5 day to go, it's very close to the wire. |
Post by Steinie // May 2, 2007, 9:50am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
It's not on the Spec Sheet so you can only assume. |
Post by hemulin // May 2, 2007, 10:44am
|
hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
|
Get VRay.....integrates into 7.5 brilliantly......produces stunning renders with very little setup.....very realstic |
Post by daybe // May 2, 2007, 11:33am
|
daybe
Total Posts: 562
|
Well, I love Vray and haven't regretted buying it, but I have gotten great results with the standard lightworks engine, just takes a bit of work, but lightworks isn't able to produce some of the things that Vray can do, like Global illumination and caustics both have their plus and minuses as mentioned already, I guess it boils down to what are you planning to do with it, it's handles reflections a lot better in my opinion and the render quality seems a lot better, as well, you can adjust a lot of the settings to speed up renders, for more then with Lightworks.
HTH |
Post by spyfrog // May 2, 2007, 11:36am
|
spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
|
Well, I love Vray and haven't regretted buying it, but I have gotten great results with the standard lightworks engine, just takes a bit of work, but lightworks isn't able to produce some of the things that Vray can do, like Global illumination and caustics both have their plus and minuses as mentioned already, I guess it boils down to what are you planning to do with it, it's handles reflections a lot better in my opinion and the render quality seems a lot better, as well, you can adjust a lot of the settings to speed up renders, for more then with Lightworks.
HTH
Well, I went ahead and ordered the Vray addon so I guess I will be on a tight budget for some time... |
Post by nowherebrain // May 2, 2007, 3:20pm
|
nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
|
I was trying to make an object translucent so light would pass through it. Can this be done with TS6.6 or do you need a later version and/or VRay to do this?
follow as noted earlier, but also ensure that raytracing is set to "on".
did anyone get the new Vray prerelease special??? I know I jumped right on that one...
my vote= Vray |
Post by Improv // May 2, 2007, 7:54pm
|
Improv
Total Posts: 0
|
did anyone get the new Vray prerelease special??? I know I jumped right on that one...
my vote= Vray
Yup-got mine today! :cool: |
Post by Morgan // May 2, 2007, 9:51pm
|
Morgan
Total Posts: 138
|
I appreciate the people who chimed in with info on the differences between Vray and Lightworks; I have no idea when I'll be skilled enough to become truly adept at it, but I've set down the money to buy it. I think that at the very least, the ease of lighting will make it worthwhile. |
Post by TomG // May 3, 2007, 4:07am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
As a user (rather than as a Caligari person), I find I can get great lighting out of V-Ray with far less effort than I can out of Lightworks.
I have seen great lighting in Lightworks, and it is possible, but it usually involves setting up a lot of lights. With V-Ray the same end result is usually achievable with no special light set up, just the right parameters for rendering with GI or soft shadows.
Note that soft shadows in Lightworks are done via Mapped shadows, which cannot pass through transparent objects. Soft shadows in V-Ray are actually raytraced, so can work with transparency too. Another small point that may not have come up :)
I hadn't really thought about it until this thread, but you know, it's been a long time since I rendered anything with Lightworks except for testing purposes....
HTH!
Tom |
Post by rj0 // May 5, 2007, 6:30pm
|
rj0
Total Posts: 167
|
From the first Captain's Blog:
...
4. Rendering
Yes, you will get Hair and Fur shaders V-Ray will be moved to the Player side so that bridge will no longer get in the way there. Other new V-Ray features will be good animation support, such as high quality motion blur, incremental updates for irradiance/photon maps, GI light maps, multi-pass rendering, depth of field, post processing, chromatic refraction, anisotropic reflections, true displacement mapping and more. There will be improvements in Lightworks too.
...
Sounds like a lot of good stuff there!
rj |
Post by prodigy // May 5, 2007, 6:52pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
From the first Captain's Blog:
...
4. Rendering
Yes, you will get Hair and Fur shaders V-Ray will be moved to the Player side so that bridge will no longer get in the way there. Other new V-Ray features will be good animation support, such as high quality motion blur, incremental updates for irradiance/photon maps, GI light maps, multi-pass rendering, depth of field, post processing, chromatic refraction, anisotropic reflections, true displacement mapping and more. There will be improvements in Lightworks too.
...
Sounds like a lot of good stuff there!
rj
Far as i know is not confirmed or mentioned on vray 1.5 features, so, motion blur, Multi-Pass Rendering, Post Processing (dont know what this means), Chromatic Refractions, and Anisotropic Refractions proposed as 1.5 features on captain's blog are not confirmed yet..
Maybe a beta tester or a Pro Team member can anwer that question.. or wait untill the monday.. ;) Thanks again Steinie |
Post by rj0 // May 5, 2007, 7:11pm
|
rj0
Total Posts: 167
|
Well, I have high hopes. (The 1st Captain's Blog was last updated in Febr. 2007, so wasn't that long ago.)
rj |
Post by Birdnest // May 6, 2007, 6:43am
|
Birdnest
Total Posts: 152
|
Question....can someone explain what HDRI is used for? As well as caustics? I know what they are, but I want to make sure I know fully what they are lol. |
Post by Bobbins // May 6, 2007, 7:07am
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
In a nutshell...
HDRI has not a lot to do with caustics.....
It stands for High Dynamic Range Image.
Instead of an image being composed of 256 bits of info or 16.7 million bits of info, or so on, the colour and brightness info is stored as floating point values so there is a very large amount of information that makes up the colour and brightness of the picture. Instead of carefully balancing an image so that the bright parts do not get blown out as all white, or the darker parts do not become all muddy and black, the image maintains a very large amount of detail in the brigthest and darkest parts.
When done badly, HDRI images look very false and fake in the way that 60s and 70s postcards have really bright and over the top colours. When done properly, though, the result have a lot more detail than you would otherwise see in an ordinary image. |
Post by hemulin // May 6, 2007, 7:11am
|
hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
|
Question....can someone explain what HDRI is used for? As well as caustics? I know what they are, but I want to make sure I know fully what they are lol.
HDRI is lighting a scene using an hdri environment texture so that light from the texture is emitted onto the objects and so that the objects can reflect upon the environment texture. In basic:
Light emitted from environment texture onto object (means realistic lighting)
Light reflect off environment texture (means realistic reflections)
Caustics is just the way light refracts through an object, it produces the weird patterns you see when you shine light through glass.
You beat me too it Bobbins :rolleyes: |
|
