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Where is the THING?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Where is the THING? // Roundtable
Post by achilles // May 7, 2007, 8:00pm
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achilles
Total Posts: 24
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Hallo,
30th of April? 7th of May? Another day again?
Are Truespace fellows playng with us?
I want to see the 7.5, and you?
Bye from Achille
P.S. the good news is that we haven't payed until it comes out. |
Post by ToxicFrog // May 7, 2007, 8:16pm
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ToxicFrog
Total Posts: 17
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Relax, Achilles! It seems you are new to the Caligari update game ;)
Ignore the countdown timer. Don't hold your breath. 7.5 will be released shortly. It might be today, it might be next week, or maybe even in a couple of weeks. To me it's more important to have great software than a precise countdown timer. |
Post by bigbigblue // May 7, 2007, 8:21pm
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bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
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30th of April? 7th of May? Another day again?.
I think you forgot the original release date - 18th April.
P.S. the good news is that we haven't payed until it comes out.
I should check - despite their written assurance that payment was not to be taken before the ordered items were "shipped", Caligari took payment from my card on 4th May :mad: |
Post by spyfrog // May 7, 2007, 8:36pm
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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You are correct. They have taken my money to.
So they better ship. Let me quote the mail:
"Your credit card will be charged $299 when we ship your order".
You have charged - ship. |
Post by roman // May 7, 2007, 9:05pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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I have posted about this on Captain's Blog. We have added one more day of testing on Monday. Golden master is planned for Tuesday, with first downloads on Wednesday. We have to process a lot of orders, and just like for downloads we are processing the orders in batches, we ask for your patience, after almost 6 years of R&D on TS7 and TS7.5 an extra day I hope is worth waiting. Sorry for the inconvenience. |
Post by achilles // May 7, 2007, 9:59pm
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achilles
Total Posts: 24
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Sorry, pheraphs i'm new at Caligari game, i didn't want to offend anyone...but it was better you didn't put any date for the release. I'll wait, no problem, hoping that will get a very great and well working program.
Bye from italy.
Achille |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 7, 2007, 10:40pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Come on guys. :( Roman and company are doing their best to try to bring to us a great product. If one day is the difference between getting a feature in this release, or having to wait for it for another 6 months to a year for it in the next release, then I think it's worth waiting the one extra day.
(Of course that's a lot easier for me to say since proTeam members get to play with some of the new tools already.... so hey if you *really* want it now there is a way.......... :p)
-Jack. |
Post by ToxicFrog // May 7, 2007, 10:56pm
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ToxicFrog
Total Posts: 17
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I'm surprised to hear that credit cards are being charged ahead of delivery. Roman, even if it is a large number of orders, you shouldn't start taking payment before you can hold your part of the agreement. If delivery is delayed for that "extra day" then payment should also be deferred that "extra day".
I'm not complaining about the unprecise countdown, I've seen it before (during previous trueSpace releases). I'm not earning my living using 3D software, so I have no reason to be too concerned. |
Post by Matski007 // May 8, 2007, 12:05am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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Hmm, I paid for my TS7.5 Upgrade on 26th July 2006!!! heh, they took that straight away, however I have ordered the new Vray but they havent taken that yet |
Post by bigbigblue // May 8, 2007, 12:50am
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bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
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Roman, even if it is a large number of orders, you shouldn't start taking payment before you can hold your part of the agreement.
Absolutely!!
I don't have a problem with the delay (although it IS irritating), but I do have a problem with my credit card being charged before it should be. |
Post by bigbigblue // May 8, 2007, 1:06am
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bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
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On a lighter note - It is now May 8th and I see the home page still says the release date is May 7th - does that mean we will be waiting until 2008 ?:confused:
Sorry - couldn't resist ;) |
Post by TomG // May 8, 2007, 1:53am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi all,
An email went out last week specifying that credit cards were beginning to be charged since release was early this week.
Note that we once used to charge by an automated process, and guess what, it used to get things wrong. So we swapped some years back to handling each and every order and doing all the charging manually, working through one by one to ensure everything is intact.
One problem with that is that it takes a lot of time. So what we do - and this was explained in the email - is we start before the software is ready to download.
If we don't start charging until the day the software is ready then you have to wait four days for your order because we haven't got around to charging your card since the process takes a long time to work through.
Also, in software development, it is quite easy to get to the last day and still find some things to fix and it takes an extra day to tidy up, wrap the code up into deliverable format, prepare the servers etc. So while we began charging last week as we expected to be shipping yesterday, we did indeed run into delays over the weekend. We chose to fix bugs right up to the last second rather than release bang on the exact day.
Hope this helps clarify the situation.
Tom |
Post by brotherx // May 8, 2007, 2:06am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I personally would rather have it charged early than wait what could be another week. I'd also rather have it charged right as I've had problems in the past with automated system.
I guess it would only be an annoyance if my bill was due today and the amount has appeared on the bill and you were hoping for it to appear next month. Of course, if the new version had been released on the 18th then it wouldn't have made a difference and you may have had to wait that extra week while Caligari could get round to you being charged. |
Post by prodigy // May 8, 2007, 3:58am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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In conclution... When we expect a download mail??
1) today
2) tomorrow
3) one week
4) dont know???
Realy i loose on the explanations.. (Remember im still learning english :D) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 8, 2007, 4:47am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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My guess is depending on your position in the queue, it'll be Thursday or Friday.
Of course, if I remember right when I went to download 7.0, the download went sooooooo sloooooow that after about 9 hours or so I just canceled it and tried again a week later... :p
-Jack. |
Post by frootee // May 8, 2007, 4:52am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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prodigy,
downloads begin Wednesday May 9th.
We should all expect our download emails either Wednesday, OR some day after that: Thursday or Friday I would suspect. Since you are an early adopter (you ordered early), I would suspect you would be one of the first people to receive an email.
I don't work for Caligari so I don't know this for sure; it just makes sense that orders would be processed this way.
Frootee |
Post by brotherx // May 8, 2007, 5:16am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Ok, I have a question for you guys at caligari or perhaps a beta tester can give us an idea of this....
Roughly how big will the download be?
the nearest byte should do :) |
Post by dallastx // May 8, 2007, 5:18am
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dallastx
Total Posts: 4
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Caligari should just change RELEASE DATE to Target Release Date.
The stress of not hitting an exact date should be lowered.
Software development is a complex endeavor these days, thousands of things must be managed perfectly to hit a date. In my 31 years of software development I have never witnessed a project finishing on the committed date. |
Post by brotherx // May 8, 2007, 5:34am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I have witnessed projects like that also. I have a friend who I worked with who hasn't managed to hit a deadline in 4 years. I don't know how he does it...
In the last 3 years I've managed 3 projects that missed their deadline too. On the other hand I've delivered another 10-12 well within their deadline. This however is mainly due to taking into account the fact that software projects always run late so I always build in extra time to take account of this.
There is that and the fact that the projects that ran late were worked on by someone other than myself, one of which has been worked on by the guy who never delivers on time....
Usually the reasons for delays, I have found at least, is feature creep or trying to find smarter ways of doing things and having to back-peddle. I like to keep it real and simple - don't be smart unless you need speed or something clever.
Of course, these projects were very simple compared to TrueSpace so there's really no comparison.
I didn't even know about TS7.5 until I got an email earlier this year and I hadn't really been using TS6.6 until the start of this year. I didn't even know it was to be released before the end of April so it doesn't seem so delayed... |
Post by Steinie // May 8, 2007, 5:54am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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The Target release Date was LAST YEAR! That doesn't make me feel good. The question I would ask myself is "A Target Date or No known bugs?" If you all pick the second one we can wait a little longer and feel better about it. |
Post by brotherx // May 8, 2007, 5:57am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Perhaps they should have used the ID software line for when they are developing a game - When it's ready...I mean, you can't argue with that... |
Post by Délé // May 8, 2007, 6:17am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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For the next release, instead of setting a specific date to the community, they should create a progress bar on the website. They could update the percentage as they build. Then people could look and see the progress of the build without having a specific date set. Perhaps they could even have a 3d interactive progress bar in one of the shared spaces that would update along with the website. Or they could get even more creative and have a more imaginative interactive element that would indicate progress, rather then just a plain progress bar. :) They could still set pre-release price dates, but people couldn't hold them to that as the release date. A graphic solution seems like a good idea for a graphic program. ;) |
Post by brotherx // May 8, 2007, 6:29am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Nooo....that would be like dangling a carrot...it's just cruel. It would be better not to say when or even announce it until they need beta testers. |
Post by Steinie // May 8, 2007, 6:35am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I have a question that kind of goes with BrotherX's question.
He wanted to know "the size file we will be downloading."
My question is "For current 7.11 owners will this be a full install or update?" |
Post by RichLevy // May 8, 2007, 6:42am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I do not have the info on this and I am only guessing but I would say it is going to be a fresh install. As a very basic guide, one that can and probably will change the most recent beta is over 100 megs, not including manual and anything Caligari feels like throwing in.
I got an update to another 3D application a couple of months backs that came in somewhere between 400-500 megs :D, it was a beast!
Rich |
Post by W!ZARD // May 8, 2007, 6:42am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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For the next release, instead of setting a specific date to the community, they should create a progress bar on the website. They could update the percentage as they build. Then people could look and see the progress of the build without having a specific date set.
Nice idea Délé but it must be unworkable.
When I start to create a detailed trueSpace scene I have no way of knowing in advance how long the job will take. I can usually be sure it will take far longer than I anticipate though :D . I canot forsee what problems will arise, nor can I tell in advance how the various elements of the scene will interact with each other.
So maybe I've finished the main modelling and positioned and textured most items but then cannot resolve a lighting issue? Or maybe I realise that the picture requires more models or that existing models are not of sufficient quality and so on.
I'm sure you have experienced this process yourself. At the bottom line it's all working with bytes, with ons and offs - there is no real difference between a file describing a complex trueSpace scene and the files that comprise trueSpace itself - except perhaps for scale.
Seen from the perspective of this anology there is absolutely no way that any release date can be pre-estimated and therefore no way of showing progress toward that astate of )relative) completion, graphically or otherwise.
For this reason and - and I mean any - software release date can only be effectively considered as a target. Asking how long any complex task - from compiling complex software to digging a hole in your garden - is going to take is very much like asking "how long is a piece of string. The only meaningful answer must be "that depends....."
Remember that it is never the things you worry about or the things that you can foresee that trip you up - it's always the unexpected little details. |
Post by prodigy // May 8, 2007, 6:44am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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First thanks for the replys. much clear now...
Steinie.. i see the same question around and i think your answer is .. Yes.. Full download.. not a patch..
So,about the release date.. i think he cant add a specific date.. NEVER NEVER use again a countdown or use it only to tell how days left for the next year... but i dont like this countdown and this kind of things only make people mad and more irritated..
So my recomendation is .. Surprice with the notice... and add another 48hs to the pre release it doesn't looks good.. Just finish the prerelease.. so thats more "serious"
Yup, the release of 7.5 was for the last months of 2006.. so.. but.. we had about 5 moths of developing..thats good...
Its not all bad.. but the Marketing used on this promos are not good.. Just my opinion... I work on the films busines for few years and give an wrong info its bad first for the reputation and 2nd for the credibility of their anuncements.. |
Post by TomG // May 8, 2007, 6:56am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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For those looking to plan ahead (though not far ahead now!) -
It will be a fresh install. So much has changed that patching is just not possible. The patch would be the same size as the full program almost, and actually with the changes, patching would be less stable.
Download size I cant give an exact figure, I am not involved in the build process, and the beta versions dont always contain all the libraries that go out with the final release, and sometimes contain extra things that get removed, etc. The most useful thing I can say is "expect around 100Mb" not including manual. This is subject to change, may be more, may be less, could vary by as much as 25 or 50% more even (though I dont think it will be less than 90Mb). Not an official quote, but at least it gives you a ballpark figure to plan your download.
HTH!
Tom
EDIT - PS, "5 moths of development" - is that related to the other thread about bugs in the resistors? :) |
Post by prodigy // May 8, 2007, 7:08am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Sorry i mean 5 "extra" months of development...;)
Lol.. i get the joke i found what means Moths hehehe |
Post by W!ZARD // May 8, 2007, 7:17am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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"Hey MichaelAngelo, how long will it take you to paint this ceiling?"
In defence of Caligari - and many other software developers who encounter this problem - I have to ask, how can these guys win? Email after email asking when will it be released and what will it do? The only practical answer is 'we don't know and can't know until it's done' gets criticised as poor marketing - when in fact by telling the truth they are utilising the only ethical way to market any product!
So people are demanding to know when - in the interests of appeasing the customer base they offer a target date and even provide a countdown mechanism because that's what the customers asked for. Despite the repeated statements from Norm and Tom and Roman himself that the final form and time of release cannot be known until AFTER the fact.
This just opens them up to more charges of poor marketing!! Give them a break - they are doing all and everything they can to give everyone what they want.
It is not poor marketing on Caligari's part that causes frustration amongst the consumers, it's the unrealistic expectations of some of those consumers and the way they choose to act in response.
I've read a LOT of Caligari's published comments and promotional material and I have seen that they are extremely careful about NOT giving bad or innacurate information. In fact I believe that Caligari's marketing is top notch and highly professional and commendable - it's a shame more companies don't utilise their stragies.
Here's a question for anyone getting themselves all stressed and irritated about these seeming delays: Was all this a problem 6 months - or even one month - ago? No? Will it be a problem in another 6 months - or even 1 months time? No? Then how big a deal is it really? Another day or two is meaningless in the long term. And hey, you've still got all the excellent earlier versions of tS to play with.;)
Just my thoughts.... |
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