|
|
tS7.5 UI explained
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS7.5 UI explained // Roundtable
Post by splinters // May 12, 2007, 9:24am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Well guys, I really cannot get it all in here and by now you may have worked it out but I thought I would do this for those immediately confused by the UI. The Quickguide explains toolbars and features while the manual explains the details.
Hope this is useful...:) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 12, 2007, 9:39am
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Sticky! :D
-Jack. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 9:48am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Hey thanks Splinters - whilst I'm getting there slowly your picture here has just answered a question that had been slowly driving me mad! How to open a new window - easy when you know how!
Now, any suggestions on setting up a useful dual monitor set up? |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2007, 9:55am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Minimise the main window just like any other windows 'window???
Drag the corners so it covers both monitors. If you use the maximise function it just fills one monitor but by carefully sizing the main window it looks just like a full screen. Check this out; |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 10:56am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Ah! So this means there is always one large window in the background with subsequent windows on top of it?
One of my all time favourite apps (apart from tS of course;) ) is The GIMP. The thing I really like about it is that each window is seperate from all the others and so you can position any window or dialogue box anywhere on either of your monitors. I was really hoping that tS 7.5 would operate it's windows in a similar fashion.
I've never understood why tS windows didn't operate this way from the start. Shrug - Oh well I suppose I'll get used to it. Thanks again Paul - you da man! |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2007, 11:06am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Wizard, you can have as many windows as you like and each can be set to 1D, 2D etc. But you cannot have two model windows at the same time.
My suggestion was just how i did it...pretty sure you can have many floating windows just as you like. Try the floating layout...:D |
Post by bigbigblue // May 12, 2007, 11:08am
|
bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
|
Splinters,
Thank you - one question, how do I get the "File" and "Help" menus to appear in the "default" view? |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2007, 11:11am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Switch to model side...they are not available in workspace as they are only relevant to .cob or .scn etc. That or use the truespace6 layout...:D |
Post by Délé // May 12, 2007, 11:15am
|
Délé
Total Posts: 1374
|
Ah! So this means there is always one large window in the background with subsequent windows on top of it?
One of my all time favourite apps (apart from tS of course ) is The GIMP. The thing I really like about it is that each window is seperate from all the others and so you can position any window or dialogue box anywhere on either of your monitors. I was really hoping that tS 7.5 would operate it's windows in a similar fashion.
TS7 had seperate windows like that. Yeah, it was more cutomizable but it leads to other problems. Like for instance, the need to have a "shut down" button instead of the standard x in the top right corner that everyone is used to using to shut down an application. This caused much confusion. IMO it caused more trouble then it was worth. |
Post by bigbigblue // May 12, 2007, 11:18am
|
bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
|
Switch to model side...they are not available in workspace as they are only relevant to .cob or .scn etc. That or use the truespace6 layout...:D
Doh! Thanks Splinters!!!
7.5 is such a massive change from 6.6 ! I wish the manual was a single PDF - would make searching for things a lot easier !
Any chance of a single file pdf manual Roman / Tom? |
Post by trueBlue // May 12, 2007, 11:21am
|
trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
|
TS7 had seperate windows like that. Yeah, it was more cutomizable but it leads to other problems. Like for instance, the need to have a "shut down" button instead of the standard x in the top right corner that everyone is used to using to shut down an application. This caused much confusion. IMO it caused more trouble then it was worth.
Have you tried the Floating layout? |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 11:28am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Cheers Paul - I've tried lots of different options - in fact exploring the possibilities for dual monitors has been my main area of exploration so far. There seem to be definite limitations - at least the way I'm trying to do it with my equipment. So far, after most of the night trying, I've been unable to create a set up that makes any sense to me.
Smaller secondary windows will not migrate from one monitor to the other and I have not suceeded in getting a workplace view on one monitor with a model view on the other regardless of window size. I can get them to work as expected on one (the 'main') monitor.
I'd have thought that an app that purports to ain for high levels of intuitive behaviour would be easier to set up. I'm probably missing something but I would have thought that the windows would work more intuitively - like the GIMP windows or explorer windows.
I'd also have thought that the beta testers might have picked this up - unless of course it's a hardware or driver issue at my end.
Nice job with the icons by the way - there are heaps of great features about the UI as you know - I'm just having to adapt.
@trueblue - yep tried that thanks - same issues as mentioned above. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 11:34am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
TS7 had seperate windows like that. Yeah, it was more cutomizable but it leads to other problems. Like for instance, the need to have a "shut down" button instead of the standard x in the top right corner that everyone is used to using to shut down an application. This caused much confusion. IMO it caused more trouble then it was worth.
It doesn't seem to be an issue for the GIMP where you can have as many windows open as you like. There is one 'main' window which can be any size you like, closing this closes them all, the others act like individual explorer windows. No confusion at all - in fact the GIMP is so intuitive that I've never even downloaded it's help file! |
Post by spyfrog // May 12, 2007, 11:36am
|
spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
|
Well guys, I really cannot get it all in here and by now you may have worked it out but I thought I would do this for those immediately confused by the UI. The Quickguide explains toolbars and features while the manual explains the details.
Hope this is useful...:)
Splinters, it is very useful.
However, one simple thing that I can't find is the simple "render" button.
I have installed Vray so I find this button - but if I would like to use Lightworks instead?
I seam to be able to choose between them on the settings panel, but whatever I choose seam to end with Vray?
I guess I should consult the manual but a quick start guide would be good for us new to this interface. In some ways I get the feeling that it is more like two program - the old TS with something new? |
Post by trueBlue // May 12, 2007, 11:53am
|
trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
|
It doesn't seem to be an issue for the GIMP where you can have as many windows open as you like. There is one 'main' window which can be any size you like, closing this closes them all, the others act like individual explorer windows. No confusion at all - in fact the GIMP is so intuitive that I've never even downloaded it's help file!
I know this does not help you setup your dual monitors and I wish I could help. But I do want to point out that in Floating layout selecting the Close "X" button on the main trueSpace7.5 window does indeed close all windows just like the GIMP. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 12:20pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
It's amazing what you can acheive with help from Percy! (Percy Verance that is!).
I think I'm getting closer to the arrangement I'm after. I don't have V-Ray and I love the LightWorks renderer and it's capabilities plus I'm not that interested (at the moment anyway) by the DX9 realtime shaders. It seems the LW renderer is only accessible from the model side therefore I need a screen setup that allows me to make full use of the bridge.
This is starting to look promising......combined screen size 2560 x 1024 = heaps of screen real estate. |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2007, 12:56pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Nice going Wizard.
As for rendering Vray, you can do it from either model or wS side (workspace) but you can only render Vray in wS (or realtime DX).
Workspace has a Vray render button on bottom toolbar...for LW switch to model side. |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // May 12, 2007, 1:25pm
|
Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
|
That's what was messing with my head too, Wizard. Apparently you can only render with lightworks on the model side. I'm also one of those people not wanting to shell out for V-ray. :D |
Post by ed_baker // May 12, 2007, 5:57pm
|
ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
|
Nice going Wizard.
As for rendering Vray, you can do it from either model or wS side (workspace) but you can only render Vray in wS (or realtime DX).
Workspace has a Vray render button on bottom toolbar...for LW switch to model side.
Why was only Vray chosen to be able to render from the workspace side? Seems kind of silly to not be able to render from Lightworks without switching to the modeller?
Was there a technical reason?
Thanks,
Ed |
Post by ed_baker // May 12, 2007, 5:58pm
|
ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
|
Ooh Ooh!
Also,
Where are the "Inference Guides"? I've searched several of the manual pages and the forum, but can't seem to find them anywhere. Did they make it? I thought that was a great idea.
Ed |
Post by 2much4U // May 12, 2007, 7:32pm
|
2much4U
Total Posts: 430
|
That's what was messing with my head too, Wizard. Apparently you can only render with lightworks on the model side. I'm also one of those people not wanting to shell out for V-ray. :D
You can use Lightworks, Vray, or Virtualight in the model side. Just right-click the "Render Scene" button, then, if it doesn't go there by itself, switch from the library tab to the panels tab. You should see a thing that says "Render Engine." Just click on that and change the engine your using.
What I don't know is how to render using Virtualight or Lightworks inside the Workspace.
Roman/Tom/Norm, perhaps one of you can shed some light on this.
John |
Post by transient // May 12, 2007, 7:51pm
|
transient
Total Posts: 977
|
Where are the "Inference Guides"? I've searched several of the manual pages and the forum, but can't seem to find them anywhere. Did they make it? I thought that was a great idea.
They're in the grid snapping menu on the main toolbar (next to the lights). It's an extremely cool feature. :cool: |
Post by Norm // May 12, 2007, 7:51pm
|
Norm
Total Posts: 862
|
Depends what render engine is currently selected.
I have three available and just rendered simple scene in all three.
You can tell the diff between lightworks render and vray render. Vray renders squares randomly across monitor. Lightworks does a single line at a time or one line for each thread/processor. Is a visible difference. Virtualight is similar to Lightworks render but is easy to tell difference in each as it renders.
HTH |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2007, 10:28pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Interesting - so when does something stop being versatile and multi-functioning and start being 'jack of all trades but master of none'?
4 rendering options that are not particularly cross compatible (each requiring own shaders etc) each with it's own strengths and weaknesses certainly presents us with an abundance of choice. This also implies that it's neccessary to learn at least 4 different work flows and shader systems. For most users though, only one or two workflows will be of value.
For someone with a specific type of output in mind an efficient and intuitive workflow is essential. Some folk want to make exciting 2d environments, others want to make game content, others want simple animation ability, yet others want to pose hi-resolution characters for raytraced still images and so on. All these tasks and more are apparently doable with tS 7.5 but in these early days the requisite workflows are not yet clear.
The manual describes the tools available with varying degrees of effectiveness but I believe that as users our lives would be hugely simplified if there were descriptions of typically used workflows.
I have several hard drives packed with hi resolution .cob files with multiple layered LW textures. All I've ever wanted added to tS functionality is the ability to easily pose these premade models with an effective bones system which I can then use to render high fidelity raytraced still images of. What is a good efficient workflow to acheive this goal given the fact that trueSpace development appears to be more focused on other outcomes?
The very first Habit of a Highly Effective person is to begin with the end in mind. Given that we all have different ends in mind. I suggest that Caligari the company and we, the users of Caligari's product, desperately need some road maps or flow charts depicting recommended workflows.
For example, I don't need to learn about V-ray shaders because I don't have V-ray. Currently dispite it's undeniable rendering power it does not offer features that apply to my specific chosen outcome - ditto with DX9 shaders. Whilst the real time view is certainly a great thing and has many varied uses the outcome I'm seeking means that I would use the realtime view as a preview only - at least for the most part.
In closing what I'm saying is that rather than having the tS 7.5 UI explained we need workflows to specified outcomes explained. This would allow users to at least start by learning only those parts of the UI relevant to their desired outcome and should provide a more intuitive and easily learned approach to mastering what appears to be a very versatile and capable (not to mention beautiful) piece of software. |
Post by ed_baker // May 13, 2007, 4:20am
|
ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
|
They're in the grid snapping menu on the main toolbar (next to the lights). It's an extremely cool feature. :cool:
Sweet thanks. |
Post by xmanflash // May 13, 2007, 6:01am
|
xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
|
In closing what I'm saying is that rather than having the tS 7.5 UI explained we need workflows to specified outcomes explained. This would allow users to at least start by learning only those parts of the UI relevant to their desired outcome and should provide a more intuitive and easily learned approach to mastering what appears to be a very versatile and capable (not to mention beautiful) piece of software.
Yes, yes and yes! :-) |
Post by roman // May 13, 2007, 10:20am
|
roman
Total Posts: 320
|
In closing what I'm saying is that rather than having the tS 7.5 UI explained we need workflows to specified outcomes explained. Good question, I am not a rendering expert but here are basic workflows:
Lightworks is a good all around renderer with strong history in architectural and product rendering so illustrators, architects and product designers may preffer it.
V-Ray has very strong Global Illumination and it is well regarded by "big boys" in video and film production comunity for being a fast production tool. It is good of course for illustration too.
We added VirtuaLight as a free option for those users who are not ready to invest in V-Ray but still need GI and can wait for the results.
DX9 renderer is for anyone producing real time content like games or 3D web content. Here you would convert hires model to low res normall mapped ones for good real time performance.
The bottom line is that you should choose your production renderer at the begining of your project as different renderers each have their specific strengths and it is unlikely the LW materials will transfer perfectly to V-Ray format for example. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 13, 2007, 10:15pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Thanks Roman and Xman.
I'd say that in a fairly short time these workflows will become much more apparent as more of us get to master this great program. It seems the developers have done a spectacular job with the program functionality - we just need to documentation to match.
The new tS is like a new city and we're all just starting to learn the best routes from A to B. I spent a few hours exploring the new bones system last night - and what a joyous experience that was! After struggling with the infamous earlier versions of tS bones it was a pure delight to find things working as one would wish. There are lots of similarities to earlier tS bones, obviously many of the earlier design concepts have been re-applied - only this time they work soooo much better.
I must have had a good time with them because my partner woke me this morning to tell me she had been dreaming about posing people using direct interface tools - which proves two things. One; Caligari's new bones system is very nice to work with and two; my partner actually does listen to me at times, especially when I'm excited! :D :D |
|
