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trueSpace7.5 First Impressions
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
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trueSpace7.5 First Impressions // Roundtable
Post by transient // May 15, 2007, 1:41pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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And no, I'm still not going to pay extra money to be educated in a feature/function of the software that is so basic, so intrinsic to the operation of the software and Caligari's claims of function and utility, that such information should be prominently available in the user/reference manual without additional cost to the user.
I think all of the basic stuff is adequately covered in the manual. I haven't had too many problems learning 7.5, but then I've had experience with other apps and I can accept the inevitable learning curve.
Exactly. When newtek introduced a similar feature to Lightwave (I think version 7) called "Expressions," which is basically a subset of the tools available in Link Editor, they released videos - for FREE - showing exactly how to use it.
Have you ever used Lightwave? Kurve have developed an entire business creating training for Lightwave, with good reason. I don't think this comparison is in any way fair to Caligari. I think maybe some patience is needed. TS 7.5 has only been out (less than) a week. You can't expect to master it's more complex features in that amount of time. |
Post by trueBlue // May 15, 2007, 1:52pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Can someone test changing the camera zoom to a alt+mdrag. I know I connected it right but the syncing in ts still seems to be off. I wanted to change this because I don't like using the wheel scroll.
I have tried using something simular and I think it interferes with the MMB drag = Rotate View or Selected Object.
Have not tried this though see if changing the Priority helps.
Also run the command WindowsManager.Activate();
Clintonman uploaded a Maya style widget in the thread tS7.5 Free Stuff that may be of some help too. |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // May 15, 2007, 2:24pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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I think all of the basic stuff is adequately covered in the manual. I haven't had too many problems learning 7.5, but then I've had experience with other apps and I can accept the inevitable learning curve.
Have you ever used Lightwave? Kurve have developed an entire business creating training for Lightwave, with good reason. I don't think this comparison is in any way fair to Caligari. I think maybe some patience is needed. TS 7.5 has only been out (less than) a week. You can't expect to master it's more complex features in that amount of time.
But trueSpace7.0, which also had the link editor, has been out for awhile. And of course it's a fair comparison: two similar tools, handled in very different ways. I'm not asking for an entire COURSE on the Link Editor, but a video showing some very basic building, and their results, along with some more advanced builds, and their results, would be of great benefit. Yes, I know there's already videos of this available (sort of) from Caligari, but it's so dry, the pace so slow, and its real-world usage so unlikely that's it's physically difficult for me to sit and watch them.
Go check out videos showinf off new features of other 3D programs; they spend time setting up a complex scene, and rather than showing how easy it is (maybe with some custom pre-built link editor-type components) to make a sphere orbit another sphere, they show off possible real-world usages.
For example, what would be more useful and show off the features to a greater extent (maybe even grabbing the attention of potential new users, people looking to switch off, say, Cinema4D, and are looking for a program that has an interface that isn't so unbearable for them to use):
A scene showing off a scripted ticking clock with rotating gears, followed by a scene showing weighted bone maps, followed by a scene showing off bones effected by physics, followed by a scene showing BVH import (and I should note here I still can't figure out how to get it to apply to an existing skeleton), followed by a scene showing off keyframed animation) OR
A scene of a boned (with weight maps applied for the blending between bones) character running along top of a giant clock that is scripted to having moving hands and gears (using mocap data for the animation of the character), who then trips and falls down onto the face of the clock (physics), where he grabs onto the second hand of the clock (keyframed animation), his hands slip and he falls into clock's gears (animation created by physics), and after making his way through the gears falls to the ground, gets up, and then does a Buster Keaton-style walking start and falls flat on his face (physics blended with keyframed animation).
Which looks more exciting to you to watch, and which would excite you more to go into the program and try to do the same kind of scene yourself?
Really, what I'm saying is I feel that trueSpace, on the whole, could use a bit more polish - both in the application and the way it's features are advertised. Yeah, you can do a lot of kickass things in trueSpace, but wouldn't seeing a number of them working together in some more inspiring to a user than a few scripted objects moving around in a scene, and maybe some other objects colliding and bouncing around in another?
And yes, I've used Lightwave; in fact, I was teaching it at the college level before my recent move across the country. While it can be a bear to use at first once you get used to the way it does things, even at a very basic level, the whole program opens itself up to you, more complex tools building off the feel of the more primitive tools. I think Caligari is well on its way to achieving the same usability (not I didn't say prettiness; Lightwave is an ugly program to look at) newtek reached, but it's still lacking in the necessary polish, ease of use, and speediness - tS7.5 is much faster than previous 7.x releases, but it's not nearly as fast, interface response-time wise, as tS6.6 was - that Lightwave and many other 3D applications have. I have no doubt these issues will be remedied as fast as Caligari can manage; they may not move as fast as I would always like, but what I'd like does eventually happen a majority of the time. |
Post by thistlewait // May 15, 2007, 3:00pm
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thistlewait
Total Posts: 2
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Okay, after reading a couple of responses it sank in...drag to the *text-label*...got it! I still can't figure out how to disconnect a single input or output (I keep deleting the entire object) but...there's light at the end of the tunnel...maybe. :o
Actually, if I sound a bit cranky it's not really TS's fault. I've been under the weather for about a week and found out yesterday that I have a case of pneumonia. I'm 54 years old and this is the first time I remember having pneumonia. It sucks! Big time! I'm tired of laying down and sleeping, I'm tired of pills, cough syrups and disgusting stuff that leaks out of my head and comes up out of my throat. I just wanna have some fun with my 3D toys. Is that so unreasonable? :(
Anyway, thanks for the tips. Now that I've got the first toe-hold, maybe I can figure out how to kick this pig and make it squeal. ;)
I still think that for such a major part of the the system, I shouldn't have to pay extra to learn to use it. But that's just me. It's not worth wrenching a knot in my BVD's. With what I've seen of 7.5 so far, it is way, way cool and I am pleased. :banana:
Thanks and Regards,
Thistlewait |
Post by Asem // May 15, 2007, 3:25pm
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Asem
Total Posts: 255
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Thanks trueBlue, I'll try that. |
Post by Délé // May 15, 2007, 3:31pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Maybe the real problem isn't the Link Editor itself, but that because it can do so many things, it's made more confusing. Maybe if the Link Editor could be broken down into additional windows, each with their own set of functions, it would be easier to learn, rather than forcing the user to deal with so much at once?
I think breaking it up would really stifle the Link Editor. The great thing about it right now is that it's totally opened up which allows you to make behaviors and interactions between things that you couldn't otherwise do. The fact that it's so opened up is what makes it so powerful and wonderful. It's what sets the tS Link Editor apart from other apps I think.
I do realize that it is intimidating at first and hard to know where to start. If you have an idea of something that you want to achieve though, there may be people around here that can help. There are more people getting good at it now, so more help is available. Once you dive in and start figuring out basic linking, it gets easier.
I think the way the LE is set up is brilliant. Once you get into it, it makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want to change much about it except for a couple of workflow enhancements like auto scroll when dragging objects.
I posted a little LE mini-tut that shows how to create a simple behavior between two objects HERE (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2928) if you or anybody else is interested in trying it. It's just a simple example to introduce linking in the LE. :) |
Post by Délé // May 15, 2007, 3:33pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I still can't figure out how to disconnect a single input or output (I keep deleting the entire object) but...there's light at the end of the tunnel...maybe.
LClick on the actual link between the input and output. This will disconnect a link. :)
Sorry to hear that you're under the weather. I hope that you get feeling better soon. |
Post by Burnart // May 15, 2007, 3:50pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Ever since the release of v7 I have been saying that this is a paradigm shift for tS and Caligari should be doing more to take its loyal user base along on the ride. The real action is in the LE - I get that, but the whole thing is pretty alien to me and its very hard to make progress with the info provided in standard manuals (this kind of "dry" info only makes a lot more sense when you have a fuller understanding of the "big picture".) I've said before in this forum that Caligari should provide some free courses to engage people with this new aspect.
In a nutshell: To get the most out of the latest version users need to understand the LE. More help from Caligari needed in that regard.
(Just for the record - I'm someone who adored the idea of Lighwave and what it could do but when I finally got my hands on a demo version I absolutely loathed the interface, finding it extraordinarily unfriendly - and some people complain about tS! Just personal taste I guess.):o |
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