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Good sky domes?
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Good sky domes? // Roundtable
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 18, 2007, 7:02pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Hi all,
Been thinking about purchasing some sky dome textures. I know Marlin Studios is one source. The thing about Marlin Studios is that they're so popular that I'm beginning to recognize their backgrounds across multiple pictures.
Would prefer to have images of sufficient resolution for some still shots and most I've seen elsewhere tend to pixellate pretty bad when used with anything above a 320x240 animation.
I'd like to use them as both backgrounds and as illumination maps for GI, etc...
Anyone got any good recommendations? I'm looking for a reasonable assortment... mostly stormy weather ones with some sunlight from behind but a few regular ones too.
Target price range would be $100-200 but cheaper is better.
I wonder how hard it would be to make my own. Probably very hard given all the lighting variables and such. Special equipment is probably required to get high quality shots.
Glen |
Post by kena // May 18, 2007, 9:12pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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DarkMatter has some nice skyspheres. and it is only $39 http://www.caligari.com/store/Plugins/tSdefault.asp?SubCate=S2plugins&Cate=STtSPlugins |
Post by RichLevy // May 18, 2007, 9:48pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I wonder how hard it would be to make my own. Probably very hard given all the lighting variables and such. Special equipment is probably required to get high quality shots.
Glen
Three ways to go with this
Stock Photos/movies/timelapses
Using a program like Terragen/Vue/Bryse
Taking your own timelapse/HDRI/Panoramas
Making your own can be a nice way to make something that is completely unique to your own work, or just a fun passtime. Bewarned up front, doing your own can take a bit of time to develop a decent library of photos/motions/panos. You spend a lot of time looking around at the sky in the morning and the afternoon (the 2 best times to take photographs).
Equipment needed:
6 mega pixel camera or better
stable tri pod
some software that can stitch together individual picture frames into a panorama, or can take multiple exposures from your camera and combine them into a single HDRI picture.
(photoshop CS2 or higher can do both of these), some cameras come with software that can do a decent job of either of these, there are free programs for creating HDRI's like HDRShop, and than many nice programs that are commercial that specialize in one of these ways.
The camera should have an internal interval timer (set up to be able to take a picture every 1-60 seconds)
The ability to shoot brackets (takes 3-5 pictures in repetition with different exposures) these pictures are than used in and HDRI program to be combined to create you EXR HDR picture to be used in your 3D program.
That is a brief rundown, if you have the equipment and want to pursue this avenue as a second or third sources for photos I can list some references and links.
HTH
Rich |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 19, 2007, 5:27am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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I would be interested in making my own actually. One more step down the path of being self-sufficient. Beginning to sound like Bob from "The Good Life"
(BBC sitcom from times long ago).
I'll have to study my camera manual a bit. It is a fairly decent 6.0 Megapixel camera (Sony DSC-H2) but I'm not entirely sure about the bracketing feature with multiple exposures. Pretty sure time-lapse feature isn't there but I'm more interested in GI domes than clouds
I've heard of some folks using one of those reflective garden ball spheres for quick creation of simple images for image based illumination. Seems that it probably would have the resolution issue I was talking about if used for a background. I have done some stitching work in a program called autostitch (quite good actually) but sometimes it's difficult to get it to work with large files.
Weather photos can be a bit challenging given the dynamic nature of the scene and the fact that I have just this one camera.
I'll check out the other sources too.
Have done the Bryce generated terrains before. They're ok for some things but generally it seems like I can always tell the difference between them and a real background.
Still stuck on photoshop elements here due to cost and it has served most of my past needs. Starting to get into the more advanced stuff mask wise that seems difficult though so maybe an investment in CS2 is in order.
Thanks all!
Glen |
Post by RichLevy // May 19, 2007, 6:10am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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These are the specs on your camera. You are correct you can not take multiple exposures nor do you have interval timing.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022509sonydsch5.asp
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/high-dynamic-range.htm
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-panoramas.htm
http://ronbigelow.com/articles/articles.htm
http://www.vrmag.org/
http://www.autopano.net/
http://www.hdrshop.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging
http://wiki.panotools.org/HDR_workflow_with_hugin
http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Faking_HDR
These are a few, I am sure you can find 100's of other sources.
HTH
Rich |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 19, 2007, 6:25am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Thanks Rich! Got my reading cut out for me I see :)
Would be kinda fun if I could make my own. |
Post by dononeton // May 19, 2007, 6:37am
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dononeton
Total Posts: 81
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So a 6 mega pixel camera or better, stable tri pod, The ability to shoot brackets, internal interval timer, and PhotoShop CS2. This is all I need to shoot HDRI. |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // May 19, 2007, 7:12am
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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So a 6 mega pixel camera or better, stable tri pod, The ability to shoot brackets, internal interval timer, and PhotoShop CS2. This is all I need to shoot HDRI.
You need a decent camera (6mp may be enough), a stable tripod that lets you easily take photos at set degrees - many better tripod have a 360dg circle so you can set the degrees exactly, and a way to blend the photos together. I made sure my tripod also had levels on it, so I could make sure that regardess of the surface I'm on, I can shoot level photos.
You don't REALLY need a timer, and Photoshop would be a terrible tool to use to create the HDRIs - something more like like REALVIZ's Stitcher (there are cheaper programs that do the same thing) to create a panorama. PS isn't really made for this kind of stuff; yes, you could, in theory, spend days blending the photos together, but with the currently photo-blending technology it's out there, PS is actually the low-tech solution. That's all assuming you're trying to shoot panoramic HDRI images, and not just normal photos w/ HDRI data embedded; if you're just trying to shoot stills and not panoramas, don't worry about your tripod having degrees marked on it, and with still PS would probably work for you.
A camera that lets you take multiple photos at a time with different exposure settings automatically would be nice, but if you have a camera that just lets you set your own exposure manually, that will work just as well.
As for texture sources, Marlin's Panoramica are some of the best high-resolution skyboxes/spheres I've seen - that's why you see them so often. Other high-quality sources (and when I say high-quality, I mean stuff you could expect to see in higher-end production):
http://www.hyperfocaldesign.com/hyperfocal-sky-hdri-skies.html
And these are sorta-kinda okay, some better than others (Dosch needs better quality control):
http://www.doschdesign.com/products/hdri/
And...yeah. That's it. I don't know of any other high-quality commercial sources that I, personally, would use. That being said, here's a free source on flickr that isn't too bad for hobbyist:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/hdr_skies/ |
Post by RichLevy // May 19, 2007, 7:16am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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So a 6 mega pixel camera or better, stable tri pod, The ability to shoot brackets, internal interval timer, and PhotoShop CS2. This is all I need to shoot HDRI.
Basically, the more pixels the camera has the better, 6 megs is probably the min. A decent tri pod is a must for multiple exposure photography, with HDR you are taking 3-5 quick pictures out of your camera within a 1-2 seconds of each other, these pictures need to line up exactly when the HDR program puts them together. The camera needs to be able to do what is called bracketing, which is simply the camera takes a picture at 0 (normal exposure) another picture at -10 (using 10 as an example, typically it is 1/3 exposures your camera will jump in) and than a +10. The internal timer is not required, that would be a great assist for timelapse photography though.
Software, you can get by with the free HDRShop V1.0, there are also Tone mapping programs that can do a decent job just from one exposure, but they are not real HDRI's and may/maynot be acceptable to you depending on what you are trying to do. Photoshop CS2 does it pretty well, you can even create the fake HDR that I described above. The new Photoshop CS3, you can get the affordable CD3 not extended and still be able to do this and a ton of other things too.
300-500 can get you in the door if you do not already have a camera.
800-1500 can get you a really nice DSLR camera and lens or a high end point and shoot.
above that is semi pro and professional photography equipment...
PK... I hope it makes the learning curve a tad bit less for you. It's not very difficult. I don't do too much of it myself anymore, I prefer panoramas and timelapses myself.
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // May 19, 2007, 7:41am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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You don't REALLY need a timer, and Photoshop would be a terrible tool to use to create the HDRIs - something more like like REALVIZ's Stitcher (there are cheaper programs that do the same thing) to create a panorama. PS isn't really made for this kind of stuff; yes, you could, in theory, spend days blending the photos together, but with the currently photo-blending technology it's out there, PS is actually the low-tech solution. That's all assuming you're trying to shoot panoramic HDRI images, and not just normal photos w/ HDRI data embedded; if you're just trying to shoot stills and not panoramas, don't worry about your tripod having degrees marked on it, and with still PS would probably work for you.
A camera that lets you take multiple photos at a time with different exposure settings automatically would be nice, but if you have a camera that just lets you set your own exposure manually, that will work just as well.
Stitcher is a nice program, I use it all of the time, it might be a tad bit of overkill just for HDR though. If you are shooting pano's though, it is a very nice program, there are cheaper alternatives that someone on a budget might consider AutoPanoPro being in the 100.00 range, or one of the gui interface programs to Panotools... then if you are shooting panos, a decent pano dedicated head really is a must.
I do shudder at the thought of setting the exposures manually on your camera while trying to take a HDR photo, just to much chance of camera shake... it can be done, and I have managed it several times in a pinch... just not the best way to do it though.
Nice to see someone that knows there way around shooting panos and HDR's here.
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 7, 2007, 2:10pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Time Lapses, while they may not be everyone's cup of tea, I really enjoy creating them.
#1 is a dramatic sunset that I shot as an HDR time lapse... these are a lot of work! it looks wonderful in it's full 3500 X 2500 resolution :D
#2 and #3 are standard cloud time lapses, each with the clouds moving in a different direction.
these ar QT Movie's made with the H.264 compressor
Rich
Please don't tell me there is a spot on my sensor :confused: , I am old, partially senile, and very frail... something like that might just send me over the edge :(
I might have to send this camera back to canon to get that one off, I tried everything I know short of a high powered grinder. |
Post by Meffy // Jun 7, 2007, 2:15pm
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Meffy
Total Posts: 9
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I wonder whether it would be possible to use Microsoft Flight Simulator, possibly with an improved sky texture add-on, to generate multiple snapshots and then stitch them together into one big image using panoramic software. Using MSFS and a few carefully picked add-ons I can enjoy really spectacular skies in flight. I haven't looked into the legalities of this though -- that would have to be taken up with the sky imagery provider, I think. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jun 7, 2007, 7:58pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Yep. It's possible! I've done it. In this case the image was posted on the forums of the site that sells the scenery (www.georender.org). This is a panorama of the Grand Teton National Park photographic scenery.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4685/panocroppedsmry6.jpg
Made from about 5 images with simulator paused. Very easy to take shots since alignment/exposure isn't an issue. |
Post by felixsg // Jun 8, 2007, 6:45am
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felixsg
Total Posts: 28
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Well I use panorama factory for the panoramas
http://www.panoramafactory.com (support 64bit and very large images without problem)
and cheap compare to the power
and search in internet for the hdrshop found this:
http://ati.amd.com/developer/cubemapgen/index.html
really I dont know is a good tool for desing but for use the sky domes for games |
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