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TS7.5 Formats
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
TS7.5 Formats // Roundtable
Post by dononeton // May 21, 2007, 12:32pm
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dononeton
Total Posts: 81
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DarkBasic Pro(dbo), Blitzbasic(b3d), Torque(Dts,Dqs,Dif), 3D game studio(mdl) and of course Milkshape 3D(ms3D) |
Post by Hans // May 22, 2007, 8:39am
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Hans
Total Posts: 13
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I have noticed that saving an object in older tS formats (*.cob) is not the same as it used to be. tS6.6 can read it ok, but for example Vue (which otherwise is good at importing .cob files from tS6.6) does not recognise it. Saving a simple cube in .cob format is from tS7.5 makes a far bigger file than saving it from tS6.6. |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // May 22, 2007, 3:39pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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How about an .obj import function that doesn't triangulate models? Maya can import the quads, and while obviously this is easier for Discreet as they own the format, the specs are out there, free for all, to reference and implement. |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // May 22, 2007, 3:44pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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The less hoops yoo have to jump through the less chance of errors. Fragmotion looks nice, but it's adding another 'hoop' and my ageing leggys are getting tired :D .
Truespace has to open up a bit and not fall into the trap of being a closed application. By that I mean it should be possible to model, texture and animate in TS and then get that job into yer development environment of choice. For this to happen the the likes of .X, FBX, Collada et al have to be properly implimented.
You better get used to program - jumping; it's a 3D industry-standard past time. Model in Lightwave, Skin and animate in Maya or 3DSMAX, export to custom game formats. My roommate works for one of the big game companies in Dallas as an animator, and he's always jumping around to different program - for example, some game engines (Doom3, for example) actually use the Lightwave format natively, so even though he animates in Maya (easier than LW for characters), he's still got to get the model back to LW format for the game engine. It's just the way the 3D world works, and will work, until a common industry-standard format is finally nailed down (maybe .FBX, maybe not). |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // May 22, 2007, 3:46pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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I thought I posted about this but I can not find my owm post:( so I am just starting another thread.
We plan to add BVH export in TS7.51 service pack very shortly. Next major format planned is Collada, both for import and export. You guys are OK with that and what format you need next?
Howsabout applying imported BVH motion data to an existing skeleton? Being able to choose which joint/bone in the BVH file is attached to which joint/bone in the tS-native skeleton would be, you know, handy and stuff :). |
Post by clintonman // May 22, 2007, 4:26pm
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clintonman
Total Posts: 304
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How about an .obj import function that doesn't triangulate models? Maya can import the quads, and while obviously this is easier for Discreet as they own the format, the specs are out there, free for all, to reference and implement.
The luuv obj import/export plugin included in the plugins folder works better than the built in obj support. |
Post by Garion // May 22, 2007, 4:46pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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You better get used to program - jumping; it's a 3D industry-standard past time. Model in Lightwave, Skin and animate in Maya or 3DSMAX, export to custom game formats. My roommate works for one of the big game companies in Dallas as an animator, and he's always jumping around to different program - for example, some game engines (Doom3, for example) actually use the Lightwave format natively, so even though he animates in Maya (easier than LW for characters), he's still got to get the model back to LW format for the game engine. It's just the way the 3D world works, and will work, until a common industry-standard format is finally nailed down (maybe .FBX, maybe not).
Yup I know, In me 20 odd years as Developer, Graphics Guy and IT Lecturer I have jumped through many hoops, tripped on a few and have even created a few :rolleyes: . Its just that now after all this time, when the madness overwhelms me and I start to dribble and drool that I wish my leggys did'nt hurt so much :cool:
I use Ultimate Unwrap and Deep Exploration (ooer missus) for most of my converstions now and it works for the most part.. sigh. ( wheres leg ointment) ;)
CHeers
Garion
Scary Hairy Scotsman:D |
Post by Naes3d // May 22, 2007, 7:07pm
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Naes3d
Total Posts: 0
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I voted for ,FBX a while ago, but Collada and native .obj would also be good.
It might be good to think about adding support for T-Splines (not sure if this counts as a format tho. Apologies if it doesn't). In brief:
T-Splines are like Nurbs, with the difference that you can have partial isoparms.
T-Splines are like SubDs, with the difference that you can insert geometry without changing the surface, and certain kinds of n-gons will shade like quads.
The main difference is T-Junctions. A T-Junction is a vertex where on one side, there is an isoparm, and on the other side, there isn't.
http://tsplines.com/ |
Post by felixsg // May 22, 2007, 9:26pm
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felixsg
Total Posts: 28
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I thought I posted about this but I can not find my owm post:( so I am just starting another thread.
We plan to add BVH export in TS7.51 service pack very shortly. Next major format planned is Collada, both for import and export. You guys are OK with that and what format you need next?
I think the .bhv animation are great, but collada I prefer .fxb every program out there now can support import .fxb |
Post by Garion // May 23, 2007, 8:50am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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2D formats could be expanded too, I get a lot of 'Format not supported") warnrings in the 2d Graphics browser.
This also makes my leggys hurt :rolleyes:
Cheers
Garion |
Post by nowherebrain // May 23, 2007, 4:38pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Ahh, good one Garion. |
Post by roman // May 24, 2007, 3:00pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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Thanks, guys, in short I like what I read here, it is very close to our thinking. We are already working on some of those. I wish I could be more specific but memories of first Captain's Blog still haunt me:( |
Post by Burnart // May 24, 2007, 6:06pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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At the risk of sounding lame :o - what about Poser? Sorry I can't actually remember the file type (pz3 or something). I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to be able to import figures complete with bones and texture maps into their tS scenes. (Don't know about all the facial morph channels etc. - nice but very hard to do I imagine).
I remember several years ago there was some suggestion about Poser and tS compatability - whatever became of that? |
Post by mrbones // May 24, 2007, 6:34pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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I vote for DTS Torque format export.
TorqueKnowledge: the animation system is NonLinear based, so providing all the sequences in one single Timeline is perhaps not the DTS/DSQ result that would be optimum[engine works to assemble the shape and sequences at Runtime], This NLA system and the default Torque engine run up to 4 concurrent Threads of animation at once. This allows for the 'overlapping'/'layering' of sequences to produce many different combinations of actions. Running[Thread0] while holding a weapon[blendType sequence also in Thread0] + turning your head[Thread1] or firing the weapon to Recoil[another blend in Thread0] is an example of one such gamePlay 'action'. This is 3+ separate sequences[.dsq files], manipulated by the engine at Runtime...pretty cool, huh? In order to get proper functionality, the sequences need to be setup very carefully and exported to the final engine formats DTS & DSQ to get things working smoothly inside the engine.
The default SDK engine, has the playerAvatar datablock assembled from the base .DTS shape and a very specific Array of .DSQ sequences in a specific order. There are about ~10 default sequences, along with single death sequence. However; the default player [Avatar]shape[ is the memory loaded shape; the 'dataBlock', not the files themselves...] is loaded at Runtime with a total of 11 Death sequences, which can be accessed via small script edit. A first suggestion is to provide a few death sequences, again, default SDK has about 11 very nice sequences; all basically starting from the same pose, the 'Root'.
Info provided by REX, More info in attachement.
Cheers |
Post by TomG // May 25, 2007, 4:43am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Good OBJ and BVH formats should handle Poser nicely :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by nowherebrain // May 25, 2007, 12:59pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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An opinion: I think Poser is retarded. It's the AOL of the 3D world.
Another opinion: I think AOL is retarded. |
Post by spacekdet // May 25, 2007, 1:18pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Don't sugar coat it, give it to us straight. |
Post by Steinie // May 25, 2007, 2:56pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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NowhereBrain, you wrecked my next idea for a rendering. A Poser figure with an AOL t-shirt attending a special school...
Since there are 10 Zillion Poser "ARTIST" (Joke of the Day) I would say that format would be needed for future growth and market share.
.OBJ would be #1 for me without using the bridge.
Silo .SIA and Max .3DS would be next. |
Post by spacekdet // May 25, 2007, 3:54pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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NowhereBrain, you wrecked my next idea for a rendering. A Poser figure with an AOL t-shirt attending a special school...
I'm volunteering to drive the bus. |
Post by Garion // May 25, 2007, 4:07pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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Poser does have its uses though..
I use it mainly for 2D character poses (stop sniggering at the back :) ) and quick visualisation of charchaters in a scene. The ready made content is useful as place holders too.
I have seen a lot of poser stuff used on magazine front covers and have used it myself for creating medical images for use on websites and in books (I SAID STOP SNIGGERING AT THE BACK!! :D )
No point in reinventing the wheel and it saves a ton of time when yoor clients are local Councils or other tightfisted whinging gits :rolleyes: and yoo really want to be shot off them and paid as soon as possible ;)
And if they are happy then I am delighted... (Well done Poser. - Garion pats the box on the head) :)
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Délé // May 25, 2007, 4:28pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I agree, Poser does have it's place. If I was hired to do a job and I could do it faster and easier with Poser I certainly would use it. After all, time is money. If it's all the same to the client I would rather get it done fast so I can make more money.
With that said, for personal projects I would feel too much like I was playing dress up with dolls. And I don't play with dolls, only action figures. :rolleyes: |
Post by transient // May 25, 2007, 5:07pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Yes, it's easy to bag tools like poser until you have to populate a scene with a dozen extras yesterday.
Poser also gives punters an easy entrance to 3d. Kind of like Bryce.
Not everyone wants to spend years of their life learning how to do realistic figure modelling. I think there's room for people to play dress-ups in 3d if that's what floats your boat.
As previously stated it's hugely popular, regardless of it's aura. |
Post by nowherebrain // May 26, 2007, 3:06am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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just one word, retarded. |
Post by Garion // May 26, 2007, 4:03am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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just one word, retarded.
Not if yoo have a wife, 3 bairns, a dog, 4 cats and 2 goldfish to feed, cloth and skool :p . The cashflow has to ... erm .... flow and if Poser does the job in the time given and saves hours of work and stress it would be 'retarded' not to use it :)
Anyhoo each to their own ;)
Cheers
Garion |
Post by roman // May 26, 2007, 9:30am
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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just one word, retarded.This is not a language apropriate for this Forum. I see a repetition of this statment few posts down I do not see how this advances format topic. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 26, 2007, 10:16am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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A good workman never blames his tools. Poser in the hands of an experienced artist is quite capable of producing awesome work - like any other successful software. A pencil can produce fine art or soft porn - seems a bit silly to blame the pencil for the artistic (or otherwise) choices of the artist.
See madmouses thread about his Samuel Jackson head image getting snubbed at another forum. Dissing poser is equally as elitist and bigoted and tasteless IMHO. We don't need to stoop to that level to feel good about what we do. |
Post by prodigy // May 26, 2007, 12:38pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Wizard.. i give you 5 bananas for your reply.. :p
:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
Im 100% agree with you. |
Post by nowherebrain // May 26, 2007, 12:58pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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This is not a language apropriate for this Forum. I see a repetition of this statment few posts down I do not see how this advances format topic.
I apologize, I will let this thread rest. I just get sick of "the people"(not the ts comunity) that use poser and make claims about their "mad skillz", so I am peved at a specific group:mad: . Poser is a tool, I just don't see it as an "artists" tool:cool: . With that being said...I have already voiced my opinion on "formats" so I digress.
cheers. |
Post by xmanflash // May 26, 2007, 2:36pm
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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I apologize, I will let this thread rest. I just get sick of "the people"(not the ts comunity) that use poser and make claims about their "mad skillz", so I am peved at a specific group:mad: . Poser is a tool, I just don't see it as an "artists" tool:cool: . With that being said...I have already voiced my opinion on "formats" so I digress.
cheers.
I think Poser has some great uses, i.e. quickly getting a figure to 'pose' or whatever and then export it into something else (hopefully truespace soon!) for a scene. I don't think theres any shame in that, however I do agree that people who think they are great 3D artists because they can make artwork of scantily clad ladies in Posers Veronica are probably not seeing the whole 3D picture.. Mind you, its probably gotten a few people into real 3D once they bore of Poser so... :o
Its a lot like web design.. I spend 7 years doing it for 'real' at IBM with 20 people working on each project.. While that was ' a bit muuch (©Borat) ' for todays projects, there was Spec design, Graphic Design, Interface Architecture, Project Management, Development, Customer Relations, Maintenance, Hardware clustering etc etc.. I now have 3-4 staff and we do a lot of that without the $$$, but then we get upset at the amount of our clients who had a guy do them a website in the evenings, and can't finish it or just plain rips them off because the client trusted them. Its all relative to where you are at in the end..
Anyhoo - this is very OT.. sorry bout that..
Re the format, why not publish the API and let people build their own? |
Post by v3rd3 // May 26, 2007, 7:09pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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Hello all this is my first post here, so if you do not recognize the name .... that is why.
I think the prioritization of the more dominant file formats would bring the best return for most of us. Being able to work "natively" with Lightwave and 3DS objects would be a great benefit for those working with a broad range of tools.
One possible element of information I think would help the decision process would be if more forum members posted their ambitions, workflow and tools used in some greater detail to help shape Caligari's decision making. Vote for format is great direction for satisfying current users but more information might help identify trends in Caligari customers, present and future.
For myself I am using TS to create images and animation for web site projects, as well as some personal animation projects. Yup! A 3d noob hammering through the tall grass.
I am also hammering through the development of objects for use in map mods for games.
Other tools I use tend to be open source, or freebies, GIMP, Pixia and Dogwaffle for my 2d work and I am having a look at Blender to assess their fluid dynamics. |
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