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TS7.5 Formats
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
TS7.5 Formats // Roundtable
Post by JimB // Jun 1, 2007, 8:22am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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Hi I'm thinking of buying a TS7.5 license and would like to know just how many 3d file formats TS7.5 currently supports,or maybe it would be better to wait for GS2 any thoughts guys?
thanks |
Post by JimB // Jun 1, 2007, 8:49am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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Ok I have the demo running now,hmm not sure if theres any advantage in using TS7.5 for game models though. |
Post by TomG // Jun 1, 2007, 9:09am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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While the tools for modeling, normal mapping, reducing levels of detail, and the skeletal animation tools are all absolutely great for making content for games (and I would say a big improvement on the current tS and gS), there is currently no way to export / convert directly from the workspace side (where the new tools are) to your game formats.
Naturally this is a high priority item for gS2.0, where the intention will be to have all those great tools as mentioned above, but add in the export / conversion processes to get that content out and into your game.
If you have gameSpace, or the gamePak, then it is possible to export from the Model side, just as effectively as you can in gameSpace and gamePak. Anything you can "convert" across the Bridge to the Model side can then be exported, so you would have benefits from the modeling tools there, so it's not to hard to use the modeling tools to start making game content. Try out the snapping tools for instance :)
Getting the much better character animation exported out is probably the biggest issue in terms of getting content out from tS7.5 as it stands into a game, if you are thinking of the "drawbacks" of the current tS7.5 for creating game content.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by JimB // Jun 1, 2007, 10:07am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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Ok just placed the order so its G'bye GS :D |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 1, 2007, 1:12pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Ok just placed the order so its G'bye GS :D
It's still early yet Jim, but things are looking better and better for TS and GS.
You won't be disappointed in your choice. If you can get your head around the new interface, and do not mind waiting for all of the new formats to come you will thoroughly enjoy your purchase.
Rich |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // Jun 1, 2007, 8:49pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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Thanks guys for great feedback. We are now quite busy improving TS7.5 formats. Now to pose format question a bit differently: Can you post here specific projects which would benefit from an addition of a specific file format to Ts7.5 today?
Please post the description of the project, tools you use currently and format which would make TS7.5 usable for that project. We are quite interested to hear about projects where TS7.5 would be interoperating with other 3D authoring tools. In fact, if you have an interesting project we may be able to get you some free PR for it:)
The big thing I'd like to see in tS7.5 isn't for working w/ another 3D app, but 2D /3D video compositing applications like After Effects & Combustion. I really, really, REALLY miss not having alphas when rendering using VRay, and .PSD rendering similar to the option available for Lightworks would be a huge benefit. There's a lot of room for improvement in the Lightworks export as well (exporting specular highlights, for example, w/ alpha rather than the "liner light" layer mode used to comp the layers would be a big start, and the same for other exported render layers), but adding these BASIC features to the VRay render exporting would be a good start.
Adding the ability to export motion vectors to an image sequence and 16/32bit rendering support would be awesome for compositing as well. Sometimes, you just need the extra bit depth when you're rendering extremely thin lines so that you can avoid the anti-aliasing issues you can get into w/ thin lines (too much antialiasing and the lines look thicker than you need them to, or blurry, or both).
It's these more general-purpose features - 16bit rendering could also make for better printed images - and the fixing/improvement of existing tools I'd prefer to see, rather than new features. The new skeletal animation system would be a lot better if you could apply BVH motion data to existing skeletons, Maya-style set-driven keys would be good for repeated movements as well as animating smaller portions of a body (like individual fingers). If you're not familiar w/ set-driven keys, they basically let you set a minimum and maximum position for each bone or a set of bones, facilitating efficient (time-wise) facial animation, hand/body poses (isn't it a pain in the ass to move each finger every time you try to change the pose? And no, the clip-based animation system won't cut it when you're doing a lot of it), etc.
So, yeah, more import/export formats are needed for the Workspace side of things, but even there the more general formats - .3DS, .OBJ, .DXF - would be more useful than the ability to import/export specifically from programs like SketchUp, which have a more limited use in the big 3D world than the more common formats.
Now, as for a specific project: I'm working on a bunch of stuff for Coca Cola right now, including both still & animated product shots, and the lack of VRay's ability to export layered renders w/ an alpha is a serious, serious issue if I plan on using tS7.x for the creation of the imagery. I've been able to get away w/ using Lightworks renders for the most part, but for the product shots especially VRay provides much better results, but its lack of render options makes it more effort than it's worth to deal with, so I may end up using VRay under for different 3D application to generate the imagery - which I shouldn't really have to do, especially when the only reason trueSpace WON'T work for the project is its render export features, not it modeling or texturing toolset - though only because I don't have to layer textures for this specific project, which brings up ANOTHER shortcoming of VRay in trueSpace: no layered textures/shaders, which is super-lame and such a blindingly obvious feature I'm surpirsed it's missing.
The issues I'm running into reiterate my initial comments: improve existing features, rather than adding new ones, at this point. A toolset of half-assed tools is as valuable as no tools at all in, my favorite phrase when dealing with the improvement of trueSpace, a professional production environment. |
Post by Steinie // Jun 2, 2007, 4:11am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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"Improve existing features, rather than adding new ones at this point"
Also calling their tools "half-assed" won't get you into the "Interesting Projects" Commercial but you sure know what your talking about!:)
I agree with all your statements, especially about no layered textures/shaders in VRay and alphas.
Your avatar looks like a fist in the air....makes sense to me!:) |
Post by transient // Jun 2, 2007, 1:40pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I think this really belongs in rants and raves.
Most vray work I've seen wouldn't benefit from layered materials or alpha exports. I haven't seen anything in their gallery that couldn't be done in TS right now (I'm happy to proven wrong on this).
I think there's a big difference between "half-assed" and "doesn't quite suit my needs". Not saying these features wouldn't be welcome, but this is getting a bit hysterical.
There's always Autode$k if you want to have these specific features, but they've had five years to work with vray, not one like Caligari. Plus their users have the priviledge of paying $800 for the plug-in. When you pay less than half that (I paid a quarter) you can't expect a perfect clone. I don't think these crits are fair. |
Post by JPSofCA // Jun 2, 2007, 2:51pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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Most vray work I've seen wouldn't benefit from layered materials or alpha exports. I haven't seen anything in their gallery that couldn't be done in TS right now (I'm happy to proven wrong on this).
The reason you will not see anything in the gallery that can't be done in tS right now, is because it can't be done in tS right now. ;)
If layered materials and alpha exports were available, you would begin to see VRay work that benefits from these features. :D |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 3, 2007, 3:25am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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.... more import/export formats are needed for the Workspace side of things, but even there the more general formats - .3DS, .OBJ, .DXF - would be more useful than the ability to import/export specifically from programs like SketchUp, which have a more limited use in the big 3D world than the more common formats.
..... ANOTHER shortcoming of VRay in trueSpace: no layered textures/shaders, which is super-lame and such a blindingly obvious feature I'm surpirsed it's missing.
If Roman wants to hear what we want..... it should
be possible to voice anything that we want to see or like to be changed.
Sketchup format is not a limited format ..... with google Earth coming up
strong it will be a very common format for building virtual worlds ....
and the feature to be able to import .skp would enable the people
tp use the normal Sketchup versus the pro version.Lots of libraries
are up in the future with skp´s ...
3ds ...obj. ....cob etc. from workspace side shouldnt be a question ....
thats what just about everyone expects
Closer integration into Combustion ... you have me on your side with
that one ..and new shaders including layered ones should not be a question
of price .. just a question of time !
:rolleyes: |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // Jun 3, 2007, 3:14pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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If Roman wants to hear what we want..... it should
be possible to voice anything that we want to see or like to be changed.
Sketchup format is not a limited format ..... with google Earth coming up
strong it will be a very common format for building virtual worlds ....
and the feature to be able to import .skp would enable the people
tp use the normal Sketchup versus the pro version.Lots of libraries
are up in the future with skp´s ...
3ds ...obj. ....cob etc. from workspace side shouldnt be a question ....
thats what just about everyone expects
Closer integration into Combustion ... you have me on your side with
that one ..and new shaders including layered ones should not be a question
of price .. just a question of time !
:rolleyes:
I never said that support for the SketchUp format is a bad feature or a bad idea, I just said it makes more sense to include the more common formats first, many of which can be imported into SketchUp (and other 3D applications), making such formats useful to a wider audience than one developed to support a single 3D application.
What people expect and what they get are often two different things. |
Post by DigitalSoapbox // Jun 3, 2007, 3:18pm
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DigitalSoapbox
Total Posts: 71
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"Improve existing features, rather than adding new ones at this point"
Also calling their tools "half-assed" won't get you into the "Interesting Projects" Commercial but you sure know what your talking about!:)
I agree with all your statements, especially about no layered textures/shaders in VRay and alphas.
Your avatar looks like a fist in the air....makes sense to me!:)
If I were trying to get into the "interesting projects" commercial, you'd be right, but I'm not - I'm trying to see the application itself improved. I don't need anything written about what I'm working on, especially when others would benefit more from the spotlight on them than I would.
I should also add that trueSpace isn't the only 3D application with some half-implemented/half-assed features, so this isn't a dig specifically at Caligari, but since we're discussing trueSpace, I don't see how mentioning such problems also occuring w/ other 3D applications is relevant. |
Post by foleypro // Apr 5, 2008, 2:24pm
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foleypro
Total Posts: 46
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I would like to see a Carrara import &/or export. Carrara 5pro has an import for .cob files.
I would like this for C6Pro...
I also would like to see better collabaretion between DAZ and tSpace
especially like a content installer or even an import Content Tsx/Tab...
I really like the way DAZ is going when it comes to going from one program to another without haveing to Restart either Program.
From Bryce5.5+ to Studio by a click of a button...
From Hexagon2.5 to Studio by a click...
C6Pro already has Studio/Poser support...
Now Id love to be able to go back and forth between tSpace and Studio or even C6pro or dare I say Bryce...
Been useing tSpace since SE luvin 7.5.....Yeeeehawwwww...:jumpy: |
Post by Dlangar // Apr 29, 2008, 12:04pm
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Dlangar
Total Posts: 13
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I want to add my vote to the list of people desiring solid character and animation exporting for Garage Games TGEA Engine (.DTS and .DSQ) formats.
GarageGames has just released version 1.7 (http://http://garagegames.com/products/torque/tgea/) of its TGEA engine, which goes a long ways towards bringing it up to date with most current engines out there. It's still priced for Indy developers though, and Truespace's competive pricing would make it a natural fit for small developers like myself whom need a complete package, without jumping through Milkshape hoops.
The GamePak DTS exporter is an orphaned 4 year old exporter that only supports static .DTS objects, (no animations) and badly mangles your geometry to boot. There is a limited workaround, the GameSpace 1.6 exporter (http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5523) written by Dark Industries, but sadly this too was last touched over 4 years ago, and doesn't support any of the advanced material abilities available in the engine today. It's also an orphaned product, as I believe Dark Industries has gone the way of the dodo.
I bought (and am learning) Truespace because it's an excellent modelling/animation value for the dollar, and because there was at least a limited capability to export my work into the game engine (TGEA) I'm using. I would gladly pay a bit extra if that support was brought up to date and was built right into the package, versus relying on a 4 year old orphaned plugin.
Dlangar |
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