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Architectural Models from The Realworld ?
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Architectural Models from The Realworld ? // Roundtable
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 3:04pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi folks,
I am interested in learning about methods and hardware and software which anyone here may have already used in the past to recreate Architectural objects and scenes from the real world.
My primary interest is in the recreation of real world architecture for use in future shared space environments, although any "realworld-to-3D" related advice and experience would be appreciated a great deal in this effort.
Thanks in advance,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 1, 2007, 1:24am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I am as I mentioned in the format section just working on futuristic
cityscapes and I am going the route of Sketchup and then
importing into Truespace or Vue6 Inf.
Why Sketchup ? because I guess Truespace does not have
a pen function with which I can trace the ouline of walls and
extrude from the ground upwards (I get TS7.51 next week )
It has the inference guides etc. but not that :(
It is way the fastest of all and you can build your own components (in Truespace too !) and use them with intelligent snapping .
Just take a window from your component library and drag it to the wall
.......it is magnetic and it cuts the hole in one go :)
Thats the fastest ...just another real good companion of Truespace!
If Ts had a sketchup importer and exporter it would be heaven .....
But the other formats work nicely too ! |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 1, 2007, 1:50am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Doing buildings in Truespace is something I want to learn as well. Are there any tutorials out there from folks who do this?
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 1, 2007, 2:27am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Doing buildings in Truespace is something I want to learn as well. Are there any tutorials out there from folks who do this?
Cheers
Mike R
Yes there is a video from Roman in the Captains blog
http://www.caligari.com/news/news_se...5_PE200609.wmv
It shows you how to build a house with the new inference guides
and snapping - very much like sketchup does only that very important
features are missing (pen tool ..... snapping from libraries etc. )
Truespace uses boxmodellling in the video -not drawing lines with a
pen like I mentioned . |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 1, 2007, 2:58am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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TS has the ability to work pretty quickly doing Archviz type stuff.
You can make pretty good use of the PolyLine (which allows you to draw freeform polygons of any size and shape, and the Add Edge Tool. While they do not make TS7.5 SketchUp, you do get a lot of functionality with the modeling tools TS has.
This picture is of a model I did in not too long a period of time... maybe an hour.
CS3E allows you to rip textures from buildings and export them already with a 3DS file into TS pretty painlessly (you have to reapply the texture in WS for some reason)
Than it is just a matter of using the Add Loop, PolyLine and Add Edge Tool to make the windows and the doors pop... Or you can keep it very low poly and just let the texture do the work (as in the picture) TruePlay would have no problems handling a very large city like this.
Rich |
Post by chrisj // Jun 1, 2007, 3:29am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Architectural modelling is pretty straightforward. Start off with basic shapes and apply booleans, and duplications, just as with the real buildings. If you make arches, use plenty of polygons to ensure your curves are smooth for closeups. Simple details sure as chamfering and bevelling, where appropriate, can make a big difference. There's no such thing a s perfect corner, but don't get carried away or your overall polycount wil be high. It clearly depends on the style of architecture you're interested in. Modern stuff is very simple, whereas classical stuff requires more detailed modelling. A lot can be done with texturing and, for interiors in particular, lighting. Build to accurate plans and dimensions rather than by eye, as this will ensure a sense of reality. |
Post by Paul Boland // Jun 1, 2007, 9:36am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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There is a package out there whose name I just can't recall at all, but if you go out and snap some photos of a 3D object such as a building, it will take all those photos and create a fully textured 3D model of the object for you. It is primarily used for architecture and on the website I visited they showed an old manor house, a few snaps, and then the 3D model. It was very impressive, though quite expensive, around the €1,000 mark. But for the project you have in mind, this could be well worth the investiment. If only I could recall it's name... Can anyone point in the right direction for this package? |
Post by Paul Boland // Jun 1, 2007, 9:45am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Photo Modeller
http://www.photomodeler.com/products/photomodeler/real_world_examples.htm
Don't think this is the same package I was looking at but it seems to do the same job. |
Post by frootee // Jun 1, 2007, 9:59am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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there is also the architectural modelling course offered by Caligari.
Frootee |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 1, 2007, 10:35am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Photo Modeller
http://www.photomodeler.com/products/photomodeler/real_world_examples.htm
Don't think this is the same package I was looking at but it seems to do the same job.
You might be thinking of ImageModeler by RealViz http://imagemodeler.realviz.com/.
Rich |
Post by kena // Jun 1, 2007, 11:57am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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You might be thinking of ImageModeler by RealViz http://imagemodeler.realviz.com/.
Rich
for imagemodler:
750€ / $880 / £515 / ¥120000
THAT would have to wait a while. |
Post by rrf // Jun 1, 2007, 12:19pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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One of the first was called Canoma
rf |
Post by kena // Jun 1, 2007, 12:29pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Canoma was bought out by Adobe, who is not selling right now. I just did a search and came up with these though.
freeware Photomodler lite
http://www.softlookup.com/display.asp?id=4954
DigiCad 3D 7.0
$ 585
http://www.interstudio.net/DigicadE.html
Photo3D
$298
http://www.photo3d.com/eindex.html
3DPhotoPro
This one looked too much like an infomercial, so I could not find the price for it.
http://www.3dphotopro.com/ |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 1, 2007, 1:00pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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for imagemodler:
750€ / $880 / £515 / ¥120000
THAT would have to wait a while.
I wouldn't buy it...
It works for somethings, not everything. I like the PhotoShop CS3Extended way of doing it. It rips a very nice texture that works in TS and other programs with no problems.
Rich |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 1, 2007, 4:18pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow! Excellent responses - thank you all! :)
@ Rayman - Thanks for the replies!
That you're currently working on "futuristic cityscapes" sounds very interesting. Also Sketchup is one of the products I have already looked into and will probably get it eventually for projects like the ones I am currently considering.
There are other programs I will be getting first for these projects though, and Realviz ImageModeller 4 will likely be the very first of them due to several specific advantages it has over the Sketchup approach, particularly speed and excellent output formats.
Seems to me I recall reading in the Moment Of Inspiration forum that several people there were using Sketchup with M.O.I., so maybe if you already have both you could also use MOI as an intermediate to get Sketchup objects into trueSpace 7.5. (not sure)
Way back in the WIndows 95 era there was a program called "Home Design" made by "Expert Software" which did essentially the same thing modelingwise as Sketchup in as much as using a drag and drop automatic component approach to adding and easily editing windows, doors, and roofs, but unfortunately it had terrible export options (dxf lines without faces!). Too bad too... I would still use it now if I could easily translate it's output into models with faces (which I have been unable to do since it came out except doing so manually) since it was so intuitive and fast to work with! Of course the texturing would be useless though for my current purposes so Sketchup would be far better anyway.
I love Vue but I only have Vue4 at the moment and springing for an update on that is way down on my priority list at the moment in spite of the huge difference in capabilities which Vue6 Infinite now offers. As far as rendering amd animation goes I'm content for now with what Vue4 produces. My focus over the next few years will lie less in the direction of anumation and rendering and far more in the direction of virtual construction and re-construction. That's just the path I have firmly chosen.
If you're free to discuss it, what are your intentions in designing "futuristic cityscapes" at the moment? (a fascinating and related subject for sure!)
@ mykyl1966 - Thanks for the reply!
Mee too! With the future of trueSpace heading clearly in the direction of providing outstanding shared space toolsets and capabilities I believe many people will be jumping on that bandwagon soon even if they haven't really considered the wonderful potential it offers yet!
If you spot any tutorials from time to time like the ones you asked about please feel free to pop their links into this thread anytime. For every one of us in this thread there are probably ten people with similar interests out there who aren't posting but would also like related tutorials. We all need them!
@ RichLevy - Thanks for the replies and for the excellent photos!
Yeah I agree, the PolyLine, Add Edge, and Add Loop Tools are rapidly becoming my favorite tools in trueSpace! (I am also thankful for Ck GameFactory's TS Plugin toolsets many of which I have already.)
PhotoshopCS3E is very cool indeed for this stuff (and you do wonders with it by the way!) and offers an unparalleled toolset I will no doubt have to spring for at some point for this kind of work!
After Googling both CS3E and Realviz ImageModeller4 again just now I'm leaning more in the direction of RealViz though... at $880 USD for the download it appears to offer precisely what I will be needing and then some... either way though I'll be butgeting for some time!
Is that hole under the bridge actual (hole) geometry or an image plane, by the way?
I looked into Photomodeller and DSculptor years ago and both at the time had problems with creating "hole type" geometry from photos so I wonder! Thanks for your input here, very helpful as always!
@ Chrisj - Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the overview, sincerely. There are probably quite a few people who will eventually read this thread who have an interest in building without the slightest idea of where to begin and that will certainly help.
I've been building in 3D myself for about 19 years now and I definitely agree with your very sound advice to: "Build to accurate plans and dimensions rather than by eye." The time saved by that approach is vital and I learned that the hard way several times over when I first started doing this, it's importance simply can't be stressed hard enough! Thanks for that.
@ Paul Boland - Thanks for the reply!
Yes, the program you had in mind is Realviz ImageModeller 4 (and thanks for the Photomodeler link also but I've already decided against that in favor of ImageModeller 4) which I remember looking at a while back and it had a webpage identical to the one you described and the same hefty price tag as well!
Definitely, it appears that Realviz ImageModeller 4 is the "Rolls Royce" of applications in this genre, and exactly what I need accordingly. The output formats are excellent too, you can even produce realworld models from the STL output which is an added bonus I'd be very likely to utilize often.
Excellent suggestion my friend, and exactly what I'll be going for with this. Thanks!
@ Frootee - Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the Caligari Architectural Modeling Course suggestion. I'm probably not the only one who had no idea Caligari offered that!
As for me and related courses though, I graduated long ago from an Architectural Drafting And Design School and went on to work directly in the field for several years with U.S. Steel and a few smaller Connecticut Remodling Contractors before I got into Marketing and made a Career out of that instead. No regrets, but I do enjoy building a little more than selling. I'm semi-retired now though, and I see Virtual Construction and Virtual Re-Construction as both a growth industry and a wonderful opportunity to combine all of my rather diverse related experiences into a single coherent part time (due to my age) career path with the assistance of partners and investors whom I now know as well as others I have yet to meet along the way.
Very exciting times and opportunities are here right now for all of us as Computing Power has finally truly arrived for the genuine global implementation of countless Virtual Reality concepts which have been waiting for it for decades. Virtual Reality was ahead of it's time, but no longer. Thanks to current technologies everything is about to change.
Having both lived there at different times for instance, maybe you and I should build a Virtual New Hampshire!?! Don't laugh, I can guarantee there would be investors! Beats the heck out of 40 below zero nights in Peterborough for sure! Hahahaha!
@ Kena - Thanks for the replies, links, and research!
Yeah... $880 USD for a download Realviz ImageModeller 4 is a tad steep and won't be easy for me either, but given that I will be using this to make some serious cash out of what I truly love to do it's just another bullet I simply have to bite!
The other links I'm familiar with but I do appreciate you popping them in here. This is becoming an interesting resource thread already!
@ Rrf - Thanks for the reply!
Yeah... I still see Canoma on eBay once in awhile for about $100 USD. I know it's old tech but it could still be useful for some quick stuff. I'm curious about Canoma. Have you ever tried using Canoma before?
@ Everyone
Thanks for the input everyone, the more the merrier! There's probably lots of folk in these forums with similar architectural modeling and virtual re-construction interests and experiences, it's definitely helpful to share them.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 3, 2007, 3:52am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I'm leaning more in the direction of RealViz though... at $880 USD for the download it appears to offer precisely what I will be needing and then some... either way though I'll be butgeting for some time!
Definitely, it appears that Realviz ImageModeller 4 is the "Rolls Royce" of applications in this genre
Well if you are looking for a bike and not for a Rolls Royce .... there is
a free copy of IBMODELER 2.0 SE (limited by the poly count.. ) that
you can try out ...... on this months "3D World" CD ... its for comercial use
could be a starter;) it exports with 3ds format |
Post by rrf // Jun 3, 2007, 4:24am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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3DVisuals,
I used it a very long time ago - as I remember, for quick and dirty it was very good. From basic primitive shapes and facade textures you could create whole cities...now you've got me interested in finding it again (where did I put that zip drive and discs?....:))
Anyway, a quick search turned up this site
http://www.canoma.com/
rf |
Post by rrf // Jun 3, 2007, 5:04am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Also, the Videos here (it's a training vid, but you can get an idea of the workflow from the free-to-view ones)
http://www.hyperteach.com/products/canoma-video-cd.htm
hope this helps,
rf |
Post by Paul Boland // Jun 4, 2007, 9:58am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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You might be thinking of ImageModeler by RealViz http://imagemodeler.realviz.com/.
Rich
Thanks, Rich, yes, that's the package I was looking at. As 3D Visual Dude says, it seems to be the Rolles Royce package. |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 4, 2007, 11:52am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Thanks, Rich, yes, that's the package I was looking at. As 3D Visual Dude says, it seems to be the Rolles Royce package.
I would be very careful before I jumped on the ImageModeler boat... yea it probably is the best of the programs out right now that does this. It is far from perfect, and can be a royal pain in the butt to get good calibration on an easy to moderate complexity arch structure. It can be the most finicky and time consuming way to model and texture a basic structure. The modeling tools are very basic, I mean really very basic. You can model far more complex objects in TS far quicker. As I mentioned in a previous post PhotoSHop CS3 now has a way to rip a texture, even from a photography that has perspective in it and bring it out as a 3ds file (it comes along with a 2D plane). I had previously been forced to straighten these textures in PhotoShop CD2 and before, now this tool does it pretty painlessly.
Than comes the unknown, IM has not been updated in a couple of years now (close to 3), and it needs it bad, as of last summer there were no immediate plans to get to it. They (RealViz) are working on Stitcher (their panorama photograph tool) Matchmover (2D and 3D tracking software), and VTour (kinda a IM but geared more to QTVR scenes than just single buildings). That is the thing that worries me the most, without a serious update to correct many glaring problems and update the code to better take advantage of better systems to caliculate images (VTour can calculate a single photo, IM may need 4 to 8 photos to get a decent calibration of a building.
Just my personal opinion, though if you read thru the IM forums over at RealViz's site you will get the same basic idea.
Rich |
Post by rrf // Jun 4, 2007, 12:31pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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If anyone is looking for the 'rip a texture from perspective and straighten it out' capability, along with a lot of other texture related functions including Normal Maps, at a far less price than CS3 - check 'Texture Maker' out here:
http://www.texturemaker.com
Hope this helps someone,
rf |
Post by rj0 // Jun 4, 2007, 5:40pm
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rj0
Total Posts: 167
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Perhaps for inspiration:
http://www.evermotion.org
Most of the work displayed seems to be 3DMax with VRay, but hey, tS will model up there with any, and VRay, well ...
A variety of tutorials buried there too, mostly on Max and VRay of course, but many appear sufficiently general to learn from.
hth
rj
P.S. Also, in the architectural area, found more tutorials/training at:
http://3dats.vismasters.com |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 5, 2007, 5:24pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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@ RichLevy -
Thanks, I'll have a look at their forums about it and I do appreciate your input. I have a tendency to be too decisive (probably due to the fact that my wife is exactly the opposite!) and will definitely look into those issues before investing that much cash. I'll also look farther into the new Photoshop for this purpose, although not having STL Prototype output is a severe limitation for the projects I have in mind for this. I suppose though I could just fork over some more cash for the trueSpace STL Plugin, but I have a real aversion to paying for export formats which I believe should already be included in various major software investments.
Your advice as always is appreciated and it did sink in.;)
@ everybody else -
Thanks for posting related info and links here, I did check each of them out already and if you spot any more post them here by all means. It will be months before I commit on related software anyway, and others reading these posts may also have a related interest or two.;)
Thanks!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 6, 2007, 3:47am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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This gives me something fun to play around with. This is a front pano (very high resolution to give me maximum texture sizes/resolution. I was than able to grab the different textures and than build the geometry in TS7.5X. This would not be a good technique if you need exacting measurements, but if you only need a visual representation of what the are looks like this is probably a very good way to get the models in a 3D world (games environments would be perfect for this).
2nd picture is the church roughed out in TS7.5X rendered with VRay.
I will be working on the roof, correcting the textures you see, and finalasing the overall appearance.
Total time to take photos... 20 minutes
Total time to do textures... 1hr 30 minutes
Total time to build in TS... 40 minutes
Rich |
Post by rrf // Jun 6, 2007, 8:04am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Rich,
This is exactly what I want to try...if you get the time,(and have the inclination) could you post your procedure for 'doing the textures' and modeling from existing photos? Any information you are willing to share would be very much appreciated
Thank You,
rf |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 6, 2007, 8:26am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Rich,
This is exactly what I want to try...if you get the time,(and have the inclination) could you post your procedure for 'doing the textures' and modeling from existing photos? Any information you are willing to share would be very much appreciated
Thank You,
rf
Let me see what I can come up with, it really is not very hard. It will make the thread more interesting if different people start to post basic tutorials of their techniques. :D
Rich |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 6, 2007, 8:29am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Instantly I can see how this works now. Cool stuff. Need to get my wife to head out and take some photos for me. :D
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 6, 2007, 2:57pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Ok, I have some time to walk thru what I am doing.
Pano photography... I use this technique for many buildings, it allows me to get more pixels into the textures I hope to be able to rip from the photos. Example, if you are using a 6 megapixel camera, say it shoots 3000X2000 pixels pictures. In the case of the church, I would be pulling all of my textures from 1 picture. In the church I have 3 basic elements, the right tower entrance, the left tower entrance and than the center gable section with the beautiful stained glass in it.
If you are bound to specific texture sizes this may be what you have to do. In TS I am not bound by the same restrictions, I can get alittle greedy with the way I work with textures.
Using panos I am combining many different pictures to create 1 single element. In the case of the side of this church, I used 12 pictures from my 8.2 mega pixel camera to create this one picture. The pano comes in at 9800 X 8600 pixels, that is plenty of resolution to really get some great textures to work with.
Another reason for using panos...
All of the pieces are now in one picture, this will really help with proportions and scale when we rip the textures we need from this picture. If I used a series of single frames, each one containing one of the parts of this building, I would not be able to maintain the overal size and proportions without more guesswork.
Taking pictures Tips:
Try to get the pictures with as few shadows going thru them as possible, try not to take pictures of sides that are too sunny, that usually causes the picture to be blown out... or too bright, it will have very little color variation and not look good when placed on the model.
Perspective distortion... if you look at the doors and the windows they are not straight on shots, they are slightly in perspective. This is almost impossible to avoid completely for most shots, so make sure you get single straight on shots of the areas that you can get too to help eliminate this as much as possible. You can add those clean perspective shots to you texture later when you are cleaning up the textures.
Some areas you will not be able to do too much for, such as the tower tops, those you can clean up in your paint program.
From here on it is just a matter of ripping the textures from the pano, you can do that in any program that allows you to undistort a picture. PaintShop Pro, Gimp and I know PhotoShop mfor sure all have some tools to do this. There are also special purpose programs that do this well also. The key at this time is to be able to correct the distortion and than save out the textures and load them into TS7.5...
(Programs you might consider for stitching together pictures (PT Tools, PanoTools, AutoPano Pro, Stitcher, PhotoShop CS1, CS2, CS3 (all have a pano tool) and many cameras even come with one on the utilities disk that comes with your camera, check to see if you got one :D).
Open up TS7.5
In Model side open the ME,
Open the Image Library
Go to the folder where you placed your textures
Run your mouse pointer over the textures, take note to the sizes of the textures, right it down if you need to. if the4y are say 1200w X 3500h, you need to create a primitive of the same proportion. 1200 wide X 3500 high is a big cube, or 2D plane, you can divide each side by 100 and get a more reasonable size model to work with.
In the case of my church, the tower/entrances on the corners I made into cube primitives, the stained glass gable is a 2D plane. By making the corners cubes it was possible to use a single texture to wrap on the cube (cube primitives by default have cubic UV wrapping), so you get the texture on each side of the cube...
The stained glass gable only needs to have one side textured...
At this point you should have something that looks like this picture.
Next I will take you thru some basic ArchViz type modeling...
To be continued
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Jun 6, 2007, 3:00pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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The roof in the below picture is a simple cube primitive that I moved some edges to shap the roof, when I got on section of it I did a copy of the cube primitive and rotated it 90 degrees for the second side... This is all basic geometry modeling.
Rich |
Post by rrf // Jun 6, 2007, 3:16pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Thanks, Rich - this is very helpful....I asked a question on the forum that got kind of 'panned', maybe you could set me straight....I'm thinking either it was a very 'stupid question' or nobody actually knew. The question was: To your knowledge, can a texture be 'locked' on the model some how so that subsequent modeling doesn't distort it ? In other words I want to, say, place an architectural texture (the facade of a building) on, say, the side of a cube, and then using the texture as a guide, model some of the features of the facade in 3d. Is this possible?
Thanks Again for the walkthrough,
rf |
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