|
|
Use of 3D input devices
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Use of 3D input devices // Roundtable
Post by MadMouse // Jul 4, 2007, 11:27pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Oooooh dear :(
Just installed TS6 and guess what... yep trueball and Space Navigator work!!!
I'm starting to get that sinking feeling :(
Can you try yours in TS7.51 when you get home please Paul and let me know if your still ok. but its looking a lot like incompatibility with TS7.51 to me.
So on to plan 'B' to try and get the damn thing to work with the 3rd party driver and hopefully Silo to, as this is what I really wanted to use the SN in.
Wish me luck :D |
Post by splinters // Jul 4, 2007, 11:38pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Worked in tS7.0, 7.1 and 7.5. Haven't used it since 7.51 (or have I:rolleyes: ) but I will check later on. Maybe something just not clicking in 7.51. Don't suppose you have 7.5 still do you Steve?
Worth a try I guess and if it does not work it would highlight an issue with tsx's in 7.51. I will check about 5 pm tonight when I get home.
But be warned, once you put the other software in it can cause problems with the trueball.tsx so best to ehaust possibilities there before you install it.
How did you like using the device with tS6 by the way?
I wish every tS user (and Caligari dev) could have a play with one to see the possibilities...:D |
Post by splinters // Jul 4, 2007, 11:49pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Did you see this thread Steve:
http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8633 |
Post by splinters // Jul 4, 2007, 11:51pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Any of you guys still interested in this there are a few programs hrer:
http://blog.ifallacy.com/?p=3#comments
that allow you to bind joysticks and other input devices to any app...bit beyond me though...:o |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 5, 2007, 1:01am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Dont have 7.5 installed at the moment Paul.
Tried the other driver and I cant get the thing to work either.
How did you like using the device with tS6 by the way? Not too sure yet. I'm not blown away but I'm still not sure its working as well as it could be.
I've seen those other threads thanks but they are a bit beyond me to.
I'm starting to think I've brought a very expensive picture viewer :( :( :( :(
Oh well still trying. Might still have a break through but I'm doubtful :( |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 5, 2007, 1:36am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Hot news from the frontline!!!!!!!!
I've got the 3rd party driver working and it shows a lot of promise.
Sadly off to work in a min so now i'm really fustrated but there may be a light at the end of the tunnel!!!!:banana: |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2007, 1:52am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Don't despair just yet Steve, it could be something really simple but you have put doubts in my mind about 7.51. If I get it working tonight then we have a chance here. I feel bad about recommending it to you now...hope I am mistaken. |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2007, 1:56am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Hot news from the frontline!!!!!!!!
I've got the 3rd party driver working and it shows a lot of promise.
Sadly off to work in a min so now i'm really fustrated but there may be a light at the end of the tunnel!!!!:banana:
Good to hear Steve. Gonna be a long day at work though.
I am in all night so PM or email me if you are stuck and I will let you know if mine works with 7.51...have a good day at work. |
Post by Steinie // Jul 5, 2007, 2:10am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Don't keep too much private, I and probably more are watching your experiences. |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2007, 2:57am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Don't keep too much private, I and probably more are watching your experiences.
Not a problem, Steve knows I check my email more often than I visit the forum some days; that is why I offered.
C'mon Steinie, would I start this thread to gain support then keep the experience private...:rolleyes:
Still, I am concerned if it doesn't actually work in 7.51 but let's not get too despondent-this is just Steve's experience, mine was problem free. |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 5, 2007, 5:35am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
I feel bad about recommending it to you now...hope I am mistaken. No need to feel bad Paul. I was always taking a gamble by hoping I could get some use in Silo, and now I've figure out the 3rd party driver I think I will (not to mention other apps)
I am in all night so PM or email me if you are stuck and I will let you know if mine works with 7.51 I'm at work until at least 11pm tonight Paul. But if you could post here wether it works on your TS7.51 I would appreciate it a lot. I can check this thread from my work PC.
I and probably more are watching your experiences. Dont worry Bob as soon as I make some progress in Silo I'll make sure I post it here.
this is just Steve's experience, mine was problem free. Show off!!! :rolleyes: ;) :D
BTW Paul, I found that when I had the SN working in TS6.6 using trueball.tsx it didnt conflict at all with the 3rd party driver, so you might want to take a second look. It has great posiblities for using the SN in other apps. |
Post by Lee // Jul 5, 2007, 5:36am
|
Lee
Total Posts: 13
|
Don't know if it helps but Space Navigator does work in 7.51 with trueball.tsx, but just not in the workspace view - so hang in there.
I've attached my edited profile from C:\Program Files\3Dconnexion\3Dconnexion 3DxSoftware\3DxWare\en_us\profiles\default.
I just added TS7.EXE.
With Regards,
Lee. |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2007, 5:38am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Good news and bad news Steve.
Good news, it works fine in 7.51 and I hadn't tried it yet. I just loaded the tsx up and moved the device-instant action.
Bad news, I have no idea how this will help you sort yours out...:o |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 5, 2007, 6:20am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Oh well at least I know its possible, just got to figure out how!:confused: cheers anyway.
Thanks for the profile Lee, I'll see if it helps any when I get home (in about 5 1/2 hours !:( ) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 5, 2007, 8:31pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
So assuming you get it to work I guess you'll stop using your mouse and use Space Navigator instead - does that mean well have to start calling you Mad Space Navigator instead of Mad Mouse? It has a cool SciFi ring to it don't you think? ;)
PS Good luck with your endeavours .... |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2007, 9:35pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
C'mon Steve, the suspense is killing me...;)
Seriously though one thing I just remembered. I recently upgraded to Vista and in preparation I copied my entire tS folder to DVD. When I had Vista up and running I installed tS7.5 then copied the entire folder (sans tS) back in and this included the trueball.tsx. However, as I did not have the truball installation files I do not remember copying the .scg file over. Maybe I am wrong and I did do this but this is the only thing I can think of that may be causing some kind of conflict.
You are obviously sure that the device is functioning in other apps so it should not be hardware...:confused:
But to clarify for interested parties, it definitely works in tS7.51 without resorting to the custom drivers you can get from 3dconnexion.
Of course, those drivers do have a great deal of potential and may well be the answer for geting this to work in workspace. |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 5, 2007, 10:03pm
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
C'mon Steve, the suspense is killing me... Mice need sleep to you know, were not all on the school time table:rolleyes: :D
Well the profile that Lee uploaded made no difference, but thanks for trying Lee.
I'm a bit stuck with trueball now so I'm concentrating on the other driver.
As for the 3rd party driver... the more I play with it the more potential I see. I'm concentrating on getting it to work nicely in Silo at the moment as this is my primary modelling tool these day. But when I'm done I really do believe that its possible to use these drivers with TS, both modeller AND workspace sides!!!
Mad Space Navigator instead of Mad Mouse? LOL yesterday I was definitely Mad@space navigator! |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 7, 2007, 1:31am
|
weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
|
You were twice right splinters thanks mate the device arrived very speedily and with a neighbour yesterday who's just brought it over: and also spot on you were about build quality. Man is it ever A1 build quality we're talking Space Shuttle. I don't care if it won't work :)
Report to follow and no misgivings about whether it will work. It sounds as if it's using a wirewound toroidal resistor in there which would account for both the weight and the noiseless precision. That I'm hoping for after the drivers dance later probably :)
Peter |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 2:19am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
How goes it with the Space Navigator Peter? I'm interested as to wether or not yours works with the trueball.tsx or maybe its just me it hates ;) |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 8, 2007, 3:54am
|
weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
|
Hi MM I missed this possibly vital info from splinters earlier-
But be warned, once you put the other software in it can cause problems with the trueball.tsx so best to ehaust possibilities there before you install it.
-and I installed the software of course why don't I ever listen as Mrs Peter has it :)
So far I know I have the SN being recognised by 7.51 via the TrueBall 0.7 Beta tsx because when I set 'Change to wireframe on moving' the Model window toggles wireframe mode on touching the SN device so I know at least that 7.51 and all the drivers chain to Vista is working
Next will be to Remove all that bloatware applications software that I unwisely jammed in there and start again
Peter |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 4:24am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
If your talking about all the other software drivers i.e maya, C4d etc. then I think your wasting your time Peter, as I believe Splinters meant the 3rd party driver caused him the problem. Is that right Paul????? |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 4:36am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
OK.. Brace yourselves... this is going to be a long post....:D
Still no joy in getting trueball.tsx to play nice with my Space Navigator :( so I've focused on the 3rd party driver.
After playing with the Space Navigator (SN) with the 3rd party driver (3PD) here's my review.......
The 3PD is very well thought out and well written. It allows you to assign any input from keyboard, mouse or joystick to any direction on the SN and in any combinations. There are slider controls for the 'dead zone' to prevent accidentally triggering the SN. There are sliders to control the max and min areas from which the input is read, so that you can set an action that will only happen if the SN is moved to it maximum travel in any direction. There are sliders that control sensitivity for the input from the mouse and controls for adjusting the repeat speed of key presses.
Keyboard, mouse or joystick outputs can be assigned to the SN direction in any combination you desire. For example, in Silo to rotate the view requires you to press ALT then click and hold the left mouse button and then move the mouse. These actions can be assigned to any single direction on the SN in any order so by twisting the SN left or right it will press ALT, then left click and finally send a signal for the X or Y (or both if you want) coordinates to silo. Hey presto with a twist of the SN the scene proportionally rotates left or right around one axis without the need to touch mouse or keyboard!!!! It does require a little trial and error until you've got the sliders for the dead zone and max and min values just right, but when you do it works a treat. By repeating this set up for the tilt towards and away in the SN but this time reading the mouse on the opposite axis I now have control over rotating the scene in all directions just by twisting or tilting the SN. Great I hear you say, full compatibility!!! No sorry not just yet. the problem is that because the SN can move in 10 different ways its very hard to move your hand in just the direction you require so if you then try to assign the zoom in and out to push and pull in the SN its very easy to twist the SN as you pull and push and silo gets confused as to which axis you are trying to select. Some of this can be eliminated using the SN sliders but it is still a little tricky so I have stuck with using the SN to control the rotation and then with some clever adjustment of the mouse set up in Silo I can access every other axis by pressing the side buttons on the SN and by moving the mouse. In-fact I have a working setup that allows me to use all main functions in Silo without touching the keyboard once! Not ideal but once you get used to it I find it very efficient and it speeds up my work flow no end.
What about TS I hear you cry! Well, the same type of set up would work with TS is it wasn't for the fact that TS insists that when swapping between hot keys there is a slight pause between mouse inputs (not sure if that makes sense?) So what I have come up with is this. I've assigned hot-keys to the different navigation tools in TS i.e. pan, zoom and rotate (in my case I've used 1 2 3 on the number pad) now I can swap the tools by pressing the hot-keys and the move around the scene by using the SN. I then took it one step further and assigned these hot-keys to axillary buttons on my mouse and once again I can navigate around the scene without touching the keyboard or moving the mouse. Not ideal I know but it much easier to use than it is to explain. This type of navigation can also be used in Modeller as well as Workspace but because of the quirk in TS that prevents you from having the same hot-keys in modeller and workspace you need separate hot-keys in workspace (I've used 4 5 6 on the number pad) workspace is a little twitchier than modeller so if you use one more than the other you would adjust the sensitivity in SN accordingly.
The most useful function of the 3PD is it allows you to have multiple layouts so you are not restricted to one layout for all programs. Once you've made your layout you can assign it to one or more programs by telling the 3PD the name of the .exe file and the 3PD will automatically switch to the corresponding layout as you swap programs (invisible and seamless!!!)
Here's some examples of what I'm using so far (some required altering the programs hot-keys):-
Firefox
tilting forward, back, left and right, scrolls large web pages up, down, left and right.
twisting left and right scrolls forward and backward through all open tabs.
pull up opens a new tab
push down closes current tab
Acrobat (could be any text editor, word, open office etc)
Twisting scrolls up and down.
Push/pull zooms in and out.
Ultimate Unwrapper
Twist/tilt rotates the 3d preview.
pull/push zooms in and out.
left SN button and mouse moves scene.
in UV editor, with move tool selected the SN can be used to scroll and zoom the UV map.
Paint shop Pro
Twisting zooms in and out
Tilting or moving up, down left or right scrolls around large images.
Pulling zooms out to 1:1
Pushing give a full screen preview
Windows
Twisting turns main volume up and down.
Taping down the SN closes the current window.
Trueplay (and this works really REALLY well!!!)
SN moves you around the world and you can use the mouse simultaneously to look around!!!
Pull jumps.
Push enters/exits first person navigation.
Silo
Twisting and tilting rotates the object.
SN left button and mouse moves the scene.
SN left & right buttons and mouse zoom the scene.
SN side buttons and various mouse buttons select other tools.
Truespace (workspace and modeller)
With pan hot-key activated:- left, right, up and down scrolls around scene.
With Rotate hot-key activated:- twist and tilt rotates scene.
With Zoom hot-key activated:- tilt forward and back zooms in and out.
These are just what I've come up with so far but the 3PD is so customizable that the possibilities are endless.
I'm not a gamer but the potential to use the SN in games is huge. To scroll through maps or weapons lists or just to move around while using the mouse to look. I'm sure you can take my point.
One last word of closing....
I'm not a programmer and the link editor to me is a mysterious place where clever people live.
But if we could navigate around a TS scene using keys to move up down left right forward and back, to rotate left and right forward and back and to zoom in and out (these keys would need to be able to be used together i.e forward rotate at the same time as move left) . I could assign these keys to the SN and have TOTALLY compatibility!!!!!!!!
COME ON GUYS HOW HARD COULD THIS BE!!!! PLEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!
Is the Space navigator worth buying?
yes indeed it is. Even if you never use it with trueSpace, you'll find many uses for it in other apps.
HTH
ATB
Steve (phew!!!)
P.S. if anyone wants help with setting up a SN or would like a copy of my SN binds as a starting point then please let me know and I'd be glad to share what I've learnt. |
Post by splinters // Jul 8, 2007, 5:06am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Great review Steve and I would appreciate your help in getting the device to work in truePlay and Workspace. I am so glad you like it but such a shame you cannot use it in model side with the standard .tsx...:o |
Post by prodigy // Jul 8, 2007, 5:35am
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
How diferent works this from a joystick?? i mean.. i think it has more axis but if caligari support a joystick with few more axis that can be work.. :confused: |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 5:38am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
I would appreciate your help in getting the device to work in truePlay and Workspace. No problem Paul. You do realise this means you'll need to install the 3rd party driver and I thought you said that this caused you to have problems with trueball.tsx??? With this said what can I do to help????
On the subject of using keys to navigate around a scene, I found this from Trueblue :- Click Here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=21963&postcount=1) This is very close to what I was talking about in my review. It just needs to be a little smoother, work with the main view, stay always active and have zoom keys and its almost perfect.
Come on Trueblue you know you need a challenge ???? ;) :D |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 5:39am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
How diferent works this from a joystick?? i mean.. i think it has more axis but if caligari support a joystick with few more axis that can be work.. The Space navigator is similar to a joystick and if TS supported joystick input to navigate a scene then the space navigator could be set up to work just fine. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 8, 2007, 6:02am
|
weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
|
Space Navigator works nicely in Google Earth
Needed to reinstall the 3D Connexions software from the CD or TS7.51 sees no drivers loaded with the dialog-
Error: Could not load SpaceWare's SiAppDll dll files [Peter: SN drivers]
Warning: Missing plugins while loading object/scene
Plugin custom data were not processed
Still no luck with more than toggling wireframe, I've installed Lee's edited Profile
Unclear about this '3rd party software' - what is that please?
Peter |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 6:15am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Hi Peter,
The 3rd party driver can be found here:- Click Here (http://www.3dconnexion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=336)
IMHO its damn good. Let me know if you need and help with it.
HTH
Steve |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 8, 2007, 1:49pm
|
weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
|
Thank you very much splinters and MM I now have it working under Vista 32bit following installing the third party drivers what a nice chap to write drivers for us that work off the bat- and I agree with you splinters it's a very high quality system and well worth the spare cash if it can be found or possibly extorted. Only time to quickly check it's working and report but the device already paid for itself it's bloody gorgeous. Sits there like a UFO about to take off all blue LEDs and stainless steel :)
Google Earth to check the install earlier. I went to Biggin Hill and flew around the airfield with 6DOF. Absolutely jaw-dropping even on a map with no elevation data... smooth as silk. Our eucalyptus tree needs pruning <makes note> :)
Peter |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 9, 2007, 8:56am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Glad you like it Peter. Just wait until you start using it in other apps via the 3rd party driver. I hardly touch the keyboard or move the mouse anymore ;) :D
BTW Did you ever get the trueball.tsx to work??? |
|
