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Yet Another Low-Polygon Spaceship
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Yet Another Low-Polygon Spaceship // Work in Progress
Post by skipper // Aug 6, 2006, 4:02am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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UV-Mapping Update: I managed somehow to create the beginning of a uv-map. As you can see below it's from the top-down POV. As far as I can tell, I didn't select any group in particular. I used the two tiny arrows from the uv-mapping editor to switch between groups and used "square-select" to move the individual groups around. I had to zoom out of course, which also means I didn't change the scale of any of the pieces.
Furthemore you can also see that at this stage I'm missing the vertical polygons of the nose (purple), rear (green) and sides (yellow and dark blue) of the ship. The next step will be to figure out how to add the missing pieces. :D
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/wip_sfms4_3d_uvtest_1a_tn.jpg
Thanks for your help Shike. I'll try to see how your workflow can be fitted into mine.
Note: the uv-mapping editor work is saved with your scene, so nothing is lost when you close the editor window or leave tS. |
Post by Shike // Aug 6, 2006, 1:23pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Thanks for your help Shike. I'll try to see how your workflow can be fitted into mine.
No problem. The method is the same as I use for UVcow, and it seems to work here also.
Regarding the blue, yellow, green and purple, the mapping projection is from the side. Technically all the UV vertices exist and you could move them manually to match the loock of the surface, but it's easier to just
Freehand + CTRL + select that color on the ship, apply planarmap and rotate it until it looks good.
See pic:
2066
EDIT: For the finetuning "Object Info" dialog, see trueBlue's post (3 posts down, #35). Sorry I missed mentioning how to open that :o |
Post by skipper // Aug 7, 2006, 5:39am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/wip_sfms4_3f_uvtest_1a_tn.gif
Shike: Thanks again, as you can see, I managed to get a few more sides mapped, but the different parts are not to scale, which I suppose I can do manually (and approximately) inside the mapping editor using the scaling tool.
I haven't tried to fine tune the projections because I have no idea how to get to the object info window. :o
If I try to get a better projection of the orange and blue smallish objects, they get distorted again, so I need to fine tune them.
I exported the image map just to see how it would turn out and it's bigger than I thought it would be, the file grows to 12MB at 2048x2048 pixels, which may be more than I need even though the texture file should be relatively detailled.
Anyway, things are moving along nicely. :) |
Post by chrono // Aug 7, 2006, 6:01am
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chrono
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Shike, good tip on using the object dialog box for the fine tweaking. Now maybe TS will stop crashing on me! :D |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 7, 2006, 6:24am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I haven't tried to fine tune the projections because I have no idea how to get to the object info window. :o
Right click the Object tool. :icon_ObjectTool: |
Post by skipper // Aug 7, 2006, 6:48am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Right click the Object tool. :icon_ObjectTool:
Thank you. ;) |
Post by Shike // Aug 7, 2006, 4:16pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Shike: Thanks again, as you can see, I managed to get a few more sides mapped, but the different parts are not to scale, which I suppose I can do manually (and approximately) inside the mapping editor using the scaling tool.
You're welcome! :D
It's looking good ! And I'm sure you'll do fine with the rescaling :D
Looking foward to see the texturing. |
Post by skipper // Aug 7, 2006, 7:30pm
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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I wonder if it would be better if I "triangulated" the mesh. As far as I understand it, render engines (used in games) yield better results if the mesh is made just of triangles. But then I read somewhere that some render engines divide four-sided polygons into two triangles automatically. I'm not sure tS does this too.
More updates coming soon. :) |
Post by GraySho // Aug 7, 2006, 11:41pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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As long as you don't change the topology of the mesh, triangulation shouldn't change the uv-mapping (you know that there's a trinangulate button in trueSpace). |
Post by skipper // Aug 8, 2006, 1:14am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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As long as you don't change the topology of the mesh, triangulation shouldn't change the uv-mapping (you know that there's a trinangulate button in trueSpace).
You mean as long as I don't twist the polygons, I noticed some odd behavior in the ship nose and so I decided to add a few edges and the odd bevavior disappeared. There are also some kind of odd surface ghosting effects happening inside the mesh body when you are missing critical edges, they disappear as soon as you fix the mesh accordingly.
Yeah, I noticed the triangulate button. Well, I can always do it later on should I experience loss of render quality. I don't expect much since it's a low-poly mesh.
I used to triangulate manually, it makes for a good exercise when you are new to modelling, afterwards I knew better. :D |
Post by GraySho // Aug 8, 2006, 1:27am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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You mean as long as I don't twist the polygons, I noticed some odd behavior in the ship nose and so I decided to add a few edges and the odd bevavior disappeared. There are also some kind of odd surface ghosting effects happening inside the mesh body when you are missing critical edges, they disappear as soon as you fix the mesh accordingly.
The ghost effect can be caused by non-planar n-gons (faces with more than 3 edges). The realtime display doesn't show them at certain angles. Triangulation would fix the problem. |
Post by skipper // Aug 12, 2006, 5:41am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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And another update:
So I went and rescaled, stretched and moved the uv-mapping mesh around to come up with a configuration that would be somewhat compatible with the texture I've been refining for months (you don't want to know). I exported the bitmap (1024 by 1024) pixels and the result can be seen below.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/sfms4_3d_uv_1l_bm80pc.jpg
Since the texture was done in illustrator, it's made of vectors that can be scaled to fit the bitmap (and not the other way around).
So you see, I got my work cut out for me. If you don't hear from me in a while, that's what I'll be doing during the next days... :D |
Post by skipper // Aug 12, 2006, 5:42am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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The ghost effect can be caused by non-planar n-gons (faces with more than 3 edges). The realtime display doesn't show them at certain angles. Triangulation would fix the problem.
Ok, I think I'm on the safe side then. Thanks again. |
Post by Shike // Aug 19, 2006, 8:37am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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And another update:
So you see, I got my work cut out for me. If you don't hear from me in a while, that's what I'll be doing during the next days... :D
Wooah! This looks really promising !! :D |
Post by Ambrose // Aug 21, 2006, 10:50am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Nice work, brings back old memory of 3d.
A site that really inspired me:
http://www.btinternet.com/~tobor/eagle.htm
Looking forward to see more.
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by skipper // May 17, 2007, 12:39am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Casting thread resurrection spell... ZAP!
Someone open up a window, gosh... who knew old meshes would smell so bad? :D
Update coming up soon... I hope. |
Post by skipper // May 18, 2007, 12:48am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Here's a quick UV-mapping update, done in Ultimate Unwrap 3D... the app did crash in Vista today, so folks, remember, don't minimize the application window unless you've saved your work before. I switched to XP-SP2 compatibility mode to see if this improves the stability under Vista.
While doing the mapping on foot takes longer than I expected, it gives me time to get used to using the app and I'm starting to like it a lot.
At this point I'm already wondering whether I'll be able to make the mapping look like the texture (outline) I've created earlier... I might have to modify a few spots.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip1q_80pc.jpg |
Post by skipper // May 18, 2007, 2:00am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Ok, as you can see below, once you've got the tricky parts behind you, it goes fairly quickly and everything was done "on foot," no automatic unwrapping. Well, unless large surface projections count as automatic... :D
Now I have to rearrange and scale the faces such that the puzzle will fit the texture as much as possible. Kewl!
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip1x_80pc.jpg |
Post by skipper // May 19, 2007, 4:31am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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After some toying around with the faces of the bow section I figured that I was obviously doing something wrong because I was spending too much time, so I decided to go with a planar projection instead. The result is that the ship has a stubby nose... :D I guess I'll have to make a few adjustments in that area before proceeding. As you can see now I'm trying to fit all faces on a square map. Once I'm done with this, I'll continue with the tutorial videos... I wonder what he's going to have me do next. :D
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip2d_80pc.jpg |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 19, 2007, 5:22am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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This is looking much better! I gotta admit UU3D seems to make UV mapping almost.... FUN! :D
-Jack. |
Post by skipper // May 19, 2007, 6:49am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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This is looking much better! I gotta admit UU3D seems to make UV mapping almost.... FUN! :D
-Jack.
I believe you are onto something when you say that. ;) I'm having a blast. :D
I think I'm almost there. (And then I really need to continue the tutorial, I have no idea where to go from there... I'll only touch my texture file once I know what to do.)
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip2i_80pc.jpg |
Post by skipper // May 20, 2007, 11:16pm
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Correction, UU3D crashes after I unlock my Vista session, so the compatibility thingy didn't do anything (no big surprise there... it hardly ever did anything in XP either). I suppose this version (2.31) wasn't designed for Vista. Oh, well, I can live with it for now... just have to save regularly, which I do anyway.
Still busy tweaking the mesh, there still a few spots where I need to stretch the mesh a bit to get more space (to get additional texture surface). There is also still a bit of distortion in some places, i don't know if I'll be able to get rid of that completely. I may have to cheat a little. :D
I watched a bit more of the video tutorials and I know now what I need to do after I'm done tweaking the mesh, which is to make it fit in the mapping square. When that is done, I can export the map. I noticed that I can assign numerical values to the texture map size (in pixels), which is a good thing, I was kind of worried it would be a fixed size. More on that later when I get there.
Judging from the video tutorials I can work on the texture (in Photoshop) and look at the result in UU3D to see how is looks, on the go. Pretty cool. :) |
Post by skipper // May 21, 2007, 2:02am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Ok, I think I'm ready to test the next phase of the procedure... exporting the map. As you can see, I've got some unused space left. I don't know if that's good or bad, I may use it to store additional textures, i.e. logos and lettering perhaps.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip2r_80pc.jpg |
Post by skipper // May 21, 2007, 10:22pm
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Ok, I've made the jump, as you can see below, the texture map is more or less done, I've prepped my texture file in Photoshop (following the video tutorial guidelines), the mesh lines you see on the model are those on the flat texture bitmap. I even put a little dragon logo to show you how easy it is now to put 2D vector objects (done in Illustrator) onto the texture on a separate layer (in Photoshop), once you save your PSD file in Photoshop, the object is updated in UU3D. Pretty cool, if I may say so myself. :D
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip3a_80pc.jpg |
Post by skipper // May 26, 2007, 4:14am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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And the journey continues....
I'm currently busy modifying my old texture line art to fit the new geometry and also testing different color combos, even though it's not that visible in the red diffusion lighting in UU3D. Every time I finish a major surface area, I copy it from Illustrator and paste as a "smart" object into Photoshop and place it on top of the texture map template to see the result. I've noticed that the resolution of the texture is relatively crude and I hope to figure out what I'm doing wrong once I'm done with the line art changes. I feel like stitching a large patchwork right now, but it's moving along, on piece at a time.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip3b1a_90pc.jpg
There is still some minor stretching in a few places and I'll see what I can do about that, both on the mapping and the texturing side to mask this.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip3b1b_90pc.jpg
The overall texture look I'm trying to go for is a mix between organic and technological patterns... not sure if this is coming through at this point yet... :D |
Post by GrimMoroe // May 26, 2007, 5:06am
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GrimMoroe
Total Posts: 50
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I like what you have done so far though I would fix any stretching before you continue.
This is just a suggestion but this model would really pop if you converted your line work over to black and white and used that in photoshop with the nvidia normal map filter to create a normal map for your model. The ship as it stands looks very tiny and this would really help make it look larger.
Keep up the good work. |
Post by skipper // May 26, 2007, 5:55am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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I like what you have done so far though I would fix any stretching before you continue.
You are probably right about the stretching. I'll look into it before moving on. That's the beauty of UU3D, you can go back and change things quite easily.
This is just a suggestion but this model would really pop if you converted your line work over to black and white and used that in photoshop with the nvidia normal map filter to create a normal map for your model. The ship as it stands looks very tiny and this would really help make it look larger.
Keep up the good work.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "nvidia normal map filter," I haven't gotten that far yet, but I'll probably try different color schemes to see which ones work best. This ship is supposed to be and look quite large... that's why I hope to increase the texture resolution. I'll have to tweak my workflow between Illustrator and Photoshop. Also I'm hoping to use a few techniques to make the textures look less flat... I haven't even touched on the art of bump mapping yet.
Anyway, thank you for your suggestions. I'm moving through new country right about now... so there will be bumps along the way. :D |
Post by skipper // May 27, 2007, 5:02am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Alright, in an effort to remove unwanted texture stretching I've gone through some additional UV-map tweaking. As I did that I tried some other texture patches on the front and aft sections.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip3f1a_90pc.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_uvmap_wip3f1b_90pc.jpg
Doing circular parts does add a little extra difficulty, trying to come up with detail that lends itself to being wrapped around a cylinder isn't as easy as it looks. I'm planning on adding a secondary layer underneath the big parts so as to fill up some plain surfaces which should result in a more sophisticated look.
Rearranging the UV-map took some rethinking and I also scaled up a few pieces that will be textured next, like the hatches and launchpads...
This is starting to feel like homework, but the end result will be worth it. :D |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 12:06pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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This is getting pretty cool looking. UV and texturing really is where the magic is. :D
Grimoroe is definitely right about the normal maps. If you're working in PhotoShop, you'll definitely want to down load nVidia's normal generator plugin for PhotoShop. It's like bump mapping but in 3D and is rendered real-time on your vidcard.
The design you've created will lend itself very easy to making an awesome normal map. ;)
-Jack. |
Post by skipper // May 28, 2007, 11:09am
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skipper
Total Posts: 113
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Despite the fact that we did have a "banker's holiday" today and that it was raining all day (too) and there is still no Wii to be had anywhere in a radius of 50km (ok, if I really wanted one, there would be a way, but i don't want that distraction right now.), I did some additional work on the vector texture itself in illustrator. :D
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/skipper_b5/wip01/tex_sneak_peek_1h_cp.jpg
I downloaded the Photoshop plug-in from the nvidia site (btw, thanks for pointing it out to me, I may have ended up doing it by hand... which may be an interesting exercise for later.): http://developer.nvidia.com/object/photoshop_dds_plugins.html
I will try the plug-in at some point for sure, but right now I want to push ahead and get most of the line art done. One thing you may have noticed is that there are different levels of details on the various faces and depending on how it looks I will either increase or reduce the amount.
I may have to make a few additional changes to the UV map, the interior of the engines was a flat projection, but I probably should have made a cylindrical one, even though there was little stretching, the texturing is a bit tricky at this point. |
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