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How is this fair?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
How is this fair? // Roundtable
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 30, 2007, 11:26am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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So now I see that if you claim to use a competitors product ( which according to the list includes Blender, which is free ) you can get TS 7.51 for $399...
I've been a loyal TS user for 3 or 4 years and I had to pay $460+ to get TS 7.51!
Seeing as how it's only been out about a month, I don't think you can credit that to a price drop:( :confused: :mad: |
Post by GrimMoroe // Jun 30, 2007, 12:50pm
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GrimMoroe
Total Posts: 50
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Honestly this belongs in the rants not here, but since you did put it here I can say that caligari has done this for many many years. Most users know this and wait for the specials. Now I have paid the higher price before and I know how you feel but honestly I have bought at the special prices many many times before also so in my opinion it all works out. If money is an issue for you always wait for the special. ;) |
Post by splinters // Jun 30, 2007, 12:58pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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GrimMoroe is right...I believe the industry likes to call people like you (and me), early adopters. I remember paying nearly £300 for a Nintendo 64 on release day only to see them slump to less than £150 some months later. Get 'em for around a tenner now.
Modern consumerism means that nothing keeps its full price for long...:o |
Post by transient // Jun 30, 2007, 4:02pm
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transient
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The TS7.51 upgrade price was $300. This is $100 cheaper than this special. I'm not sure why you paid $460, but if you had a prior version of TS you didn't need to.:confused:
The 3d market is very aggressive at the moment and the programs are getting more affordable across the board, which is a good thing overall imo. |
Post by parva // Jun 30, 2007, 11:19pm
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parva
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I remember paying nearly £300 for a Nintendo 64 on release day only to see them slump to less than £150 some months later. Get 'em for around a tenner now.
Modern consumerism means that nothing keeps its full price for long...
Yepp, or think on the crazy guys which buyed an iphone :D |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 1, 2007, 6:46am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Why did you pay if you thought the price was too high? Maybe at that moment it was worth it for you...either way prices are always subject to change...sorry, but get over it. |
Post by Paul Boland // Jul 1, 2007, 8:14am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Not looking to start an argument here, but Forcemaster2000 does raise one interesting point. Why is Blender on the list? It's free. Anyone who sees the offer from Caligari can just go download Blender and then avail of this offer, getting TrueSpace 7.51 for a substantial discount. I don't have a problem with the offer itself (I paid US$485 odd to get to 7.51 and I don't feel I was over charged one bit), but I don't feel the offer should be open to users of free software. It kind of smacks us all in the face, being loyal TrueSpace users and paying a higher price for 7.51 while anybody can go and download free Blender, not even use it, and then avail of this offer from Caligari. The offer should only be open to commercial package owners, not freeware. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 1, 2007, 8:18am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Wow you guys are harsh today... :confused:
I've always found it odd that the competitive upgrade offer included Wings and Blender... might as well just call it a sale price...?
Of course Blender is a serious competitor even though it's free and while Wings3D doesn't have anywhere near the functionality of tS it is not a bad app either as far as modeling goes...
I got 7.5 as part of my proTeam renewal so can't really say I paid that much less than Forcemaster2000.
Now I agree with Parva, paying $600 for a glorified Blackberry is pretty nutz.... ;) And that probably doesn't even include the calling plan which probably rips you an arm and a leg for bandwidth usage! :rolleyes:
-Jack. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jul 1, 2007, 10:38am
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ProfessorKhaos
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Just curious forcemaster, from what version did you upgrade and approximately what time?
I do find it a bit odd that you'd be unaware of Caligari's practice of having special sales offers. Maybe a brand new person would have missed it but anyone who's been to the site for a few years would have noticed the pattern on main page banner (and emails if you get them). They generally give good pre-release prices and good holiday specials (i.e. 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc...) Sometimes hard to predict which products will get the sale price. Sometimes it's training courses, plugins , proteam membership, sometimes older versions at a cut rate, or like the current one a great deal on their newest app.
Blender is an odd one to include in a list of products for competitive upgrade but then that's not necessarily what I'd consider a bad thing. It's kinda like clipping coupons. If you do your homework you get a great deal.
I'm notorious for buying stuff right before it goes on sale. Not something I'd really hold against the sales staff though. Regardless of when they announce a sale, there's going to be some folks caught before the deadline.
I used to work in a University Bookstore once and we'd have travel groups come through in the summer and buy clothes as souveniers. Once, an old ladies group from New York came through and bought some logo'd clothes. About a week and a half later we had a ton of them lined up for refunds because they learned that a 25% clearance sale started a week after their original purchase. They then insisted on purchasing the same item off the rack unworn for the sale price. Even I didn't know about the sale the week before. I'll never forget just how tacky that seemed.
Granted, much of the differences in what's considered acceptible behavior may be regional or cultural. As a person from the midwest I wasn't quite as used to seeing someone with that mentality, not to mention 3-4 busloads of folks doing the same thing.
Given the above example, I do know why many places have a "No refunds" policy these days and I appreciate the patience of those sites like Caligari who do provide 30 day money back guarantees. |
Post by RichLevy // Jul 1, 2007, 12:02pm
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RichLevy
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Blender, Terragen and Wingz are free... that what was got my attention immediately. I have seen companys offer upgrade sales that included just about everything available, any version... never the free ones though.
But it is a great oppurtunity for someone to get into TS for just under 400.00
Rich |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jul 1, 2007, 12:53pm
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Not looking to start an argument here, but Forcemaster2000 does raise one interesting point. Why is Blender on the list? It's free. Anyone who sees the offer from Caligari can just go download Blender and then avail of this offer, getting TrueSpace 7.51 for a substantial discount. I don't have a problem with the offer itself (I paid US$485 odd to get to 7.51 and I don't feel I was over charged one bit), but I don't feel the offer should be open to users of free software. It kind of smacks us all in the face, being loyal TrueSpace users and paying a higher price for 7.51 while anybody can go and download free Blender, not even use it, and then avail of this offer from Caligari. The offer should only be open to commercial package owners, not freeware.
Thank you Paul! I knew I couldn't be the only one to find this a sore point.
Caligari can do whatever they want with their pricing. I'm not saying they can't...I just find it a little unfair that someone who buys their product and has to put up with it being buggy for a month or more before a patch comes out, shouldn't have had to pay a higher price than someone using a free product like blender does only a couple of weeks after the patch rolls out.
I upgraded from TS 5.2, and yes, I got the deal that shipped me 6.6 before 7.5 was finished. But that's really moot, since 7.5's model side is nothing more than 6.6 anyway.
I'm not ranting here any more than Paul Boland did. It just seems like a little too short a time to be dropping the price for 7.5 after people who already owned a TS product have upgraded. My upgrade price was higher than what I could have gotten it "brand new", seeing as how I use blender as well...after all who doesn't these days :p
I'm not asking for my money back, or anything like that, I just wanted to know if anyone else felt a little taken aback by this pricing practice. |
Post by Steinie // Jul 1, 2007, 1:24pm
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Steinie
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YES ME.
Where is the deal for Customer Loyalty?
The ones that pay least also have less bugs to fight since the "Loyal customers" have put up with them longer.
On the other hand Loyal Customers get to enjoy the software longer.
So you have a good point but welcome to the real world... |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jul 1, 2007, 1:30pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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My apologies if my answer appeared to be anything more directed than a recollection of past experiences and how it molded my current views on the matter.
Wasn't trying to directly compare you with 3-4 busloads of haggling old ladies so much as illustrate that special price breaks are one of those things that should be a good thing but often makes folks upset when they see the same item for cheaper. In my opinion it's one of those things that happens to most everyone occasionally and it's not worth much worrying about unless you're treating a purchase as a material investment. Then more research should be involved anyway.
The refund comment was mostly an aside to that particular example though I tied it back to Caligari as a positive thing in general. Not directed at you ForceMaster... |
Post by Improv // Jul 1, 2007, 2:53pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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I just find it a little unfair that someone who buys their product and has to put up with it being buggy for a month or more before a patch comes out, shouldn't have had to pay a higher price than someone using a free product like blender does only a couple of weeks after the patch rolls out.
So what stopped you from downloading Blender and getting the price break? The you can claim the price break. If you bought before that offer, well... too bad-that's life, sometimes you luck out, and sometimes you don't.
Get over it and move on-this is a none issue! :rolleyes: |
Post by kena // Jul 1, 2007, 3:55pm
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kena
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I think that the point is that people got 7.5 when it came out, and now all someone has to do to get it for less is download a free program and claim that they use it. I'm not upset by it myself, but then I'm and extremely easy-going guy. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 1, 2007, 5:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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A couple of Latin phrases spring to mind here - 'Caveat emptor', or buyer beware and 'Noli illigitimi carborundum' which means (very roughly), Don't let the bastards grind you down!
Not that I think Caligari fall into the latter category, far from it. I think that they offer exceptional customer service and support combined with good product. They like anyone else trying to competitive in the modern market have to work with market forces like everyone else. Sometimes we are in the right palce at the right time to get a bargain and sometimes we aren't, and that can be a real bastard!
A friend of mine bought a lovely mountain bike, full suspension, all the bells and whistles - cost him $1600.00. I liked it so much I went to buy one for myself a couple of days later, only to find the cycle shop had a special deal, two bikes for the price of one! Consequently not only do I have a nice shiny mountain bike, so does my partner. Sometimes we win sometimes we don't.
I blame the bankers and the accountants myself ;) |
Post by Improv // Jul 1, 2007, 8:43pm
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Improv
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'Noli illigitimi carborundum' which means (very roughly), Don't let the bastards grind you down!
FYI:
noli illegitimi carborundum
1. Don't let the bastards wear you down.
Note: This saying (in the first variant above?) was popularized by US General "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell during World War II. He is reputed to have learned it from British army intelligence. In politics, the saying became motto for 1964 Republican nominee Senator Barry Goldwater, who hung a sign in his office. The word "carborundum" in particular was not of Latin origin. Carborundum, is often represented as meaning grind resulting in Don't let the bastards grind you. |
Post by Burnart // Jul 2, 2007, 1:39pm
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Burnart
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Sounds like people are able to now buy into tS 7.51 for about the same as the pre-release upgrade price from 6.6 to 7 (including up to the 7.51 release). My point being simply that at least Forcemaster2000 your probably in line for the best pricing on the next upgrade. However your basic point is taken and I get your frustration - sometimes there isn't enough emphasis given to loyalty. I guess with each round of specials Caligari are casting a net. |
Post by transient // Jul 2, 2007, 2:44pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Pre-release upgrade price: $300 + vray $200
Competitive Upgrade: $400 + vray $300
I still don't see the argument. The competitive upgrade is only a short-term deal anyway. Other companies have these including LW, which was even better value and included TS owners.
I think Caligari are just fighting for new customers, no lack of loyalty from what I can see. :confused: |
Post by Norm // Jul 3, 2007, 5:12am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Yes it is a very compeditive market today.
Main benefit I see for those who purchased early; the forums here and the learning curve assosicated with the software is lessened. Being onboard from the outset, sets you on the leading edge of the wave/curve.
Then of course there are all the related expenses associated with developing, marketing and such :o |
Post by roman // Jul 3, 2007, 10:46am
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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So now I see that if you claim to use a competitors product ( which according to the list includes Blender, which is free ) you can get TS 7.51 for $399...You are right and we already removed Blender from the list. Please note that this is a very short one time special aimed at bringing more users to our comunity, not a "price drop". |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jul 3, 2007, 3:25pm
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Thx for the reply Roman, but I'm not really upset...although it probably came off that way in the beginning...a knee-jerk reaction. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 3, 2007, 11:25pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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knee-jerk reaction
As punishment we want to see that knee-jerk reflex animated. Don't forget the little hammer. Next week in the medicine slot: proctology for 3D artists. We'll start with the rubber glove :)
Peter |
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