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*69 Captain's Blog
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
*69 Captain's Blog // Roundtable
Post by frootee // Apr 7, 2008, 10:37am
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Looks like the Captain's blog is intended to discuss new functionality, rather than fixed bugs. I haven't re-read through the whole thing though. |
Post by jayr // Apr 7, 2008, 10:48am
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Looks like the Captain's blog is intended to discuss new functionality, rather than fixed bugs. I haven't re-read through the whole thing though.
True new feature make good news but it'd be nice to have a blog listing bugs that have been fixed. |
Post by Délé // Apr 7, 2008, 10:57am
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Délé
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True new feature make good news but it'd be nice to have a blog listing bugs that have been fixed.A valid point for sure. While Caligari has made great progress with "crash" bugs (Workspace is very stable from my experience), I would still like to see more focus on bug fixes that hinder work flow then what we've seen so far in releases.
With that said, unfortunately I don't think you're going to see a list of fixed bugs. One main reason is that in any software, you can fix a bug only to see it pop back up after you've introduced some other features. How mad would people be if Roman mentioned that a specific bug was fixed and then it inadvertently popped back up right before release? That's just one list that you cant guarantee until the software is actually released. |
Post by frootee // Apr 7, 2008, 11:28am
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To add to Dele's point, there's a sh*tload of bugs that have been reported and fixed. I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in reading through the whole list. Think about it... how would one decide which ones are included in the list, and which ones are not included in the list? Best to list them all! But then, we need a name for the bug that Everyone understands, not a wordy title that a beta tester typed up off the top of their head. So it's best to review the list, and think of an appropriate term, and a good explanation of it too.
In other words, while at first thought, it seems like a good idea, it's probably best not to fool with it. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Apr 7, 2008, 12:00pm
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A bug fix list would be good to enable those (If its not a free update) to decide if they would continue to invest in Truespace rather than a hope its fixed purchase.
Would also show confidence in their bug fixing abilities if they can actually list them rather than hiding behind new features.
Mike R |
Post by splinters // Apr 7, 2008, 12:12pm
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Bugs aside, you have to admit that the booleans are, not just ported over from model side, but drastically improved. If the dynamic cloth could eventually be extended to dynamic hair with better grooming tools then I would be a happy man.
I understand the need for bug fixes too and it has been suggested in these threads that many have been fixed. I am sure such a list will be provided once tS7.6 release details are finalised. |
Post by prodigy // Apr 7, 2008, 12:13pm
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As i told in the past, 7.6 is very very stable. Dev's are doing an incredible good work fixing bugs and adding new features and sure, beta testers are doing another good job requesting good features and reporting ALL to make truespace more friendly and stable. Bananas for devs and bananas for testers :D
:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
7.6 is miles away from 7.5 in many aspects, workflows is one of the most important improvements IMO and to give an example i can't imagine work again with 7.51.. I WON'T WORK IN 7.51! :mad:
Booleans... Hooo yeah!! Tomas is doing a great job with booleans..
It's stable, and by far more powerfull than model side booleans..
Cheers |
Post by Steinie // Apr 7, 2008, 12:18pm
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So we have Cloth, Boolean and bug fixes. Still sounds like we have the Bridge with all the tools still not ported over. Nothing said about rendering engines. No mention of Object importing on the WorkSpace side. Ok it's bigger. I don't want bigger. I want to start and stay on the WorkSpace side. Will that be now possible?
The Bridge should be for plugins. |
Post by jayr // Apr 7, 2008, 12:26pm
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To follow on from steinie i really think Lightworks needs moving in the workspace, vray is great at what it does but lightworks has a whole other set of features that most of use like to use, Volumetrics for example.
Then again, maybe beneth the depths of the dreaded NDA something else is lurking, a new render engine for the workspace, maybe thats why the Caligari people have never stated that Lightworks will definatly cross the bridge.
Ok maybe i'm getting carried away here, after all they seem to have been working hard to make the Realtime Renderer for the past few years, would they even have had time to make/ buy/ lease a whole new render engine? |
Post by Burnart // Apr 7, 2008, 12:42pm
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Booleans and dynamic cloth (at last) are certainly welcome.
My issue with VRay is simple - its too expensive for me. Once software gets above US$100 then its beyond my budget. I can make room for more when its my core application (ie tS!) but not for plugins and other graphics software. We definitely need lightworks on the workspace side. Until I can render out rather than just realtime I'm simply not going to use the workspace much - and I'm not going to learn more about realtime until I spend more time in workspace. If I'm not going to spend time in workspace is it worth forking out on the next update? Its all one big Catch 22.
We need on board rendering on the workspace side. Of course if Simon was able to port dribble to the workspace side that would also solve my issues. |
Post by v3rd3 // Apr 7, 2008, 4:05pm
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Well my 2 cents on the rendering issue is..... (drum roll)
I like Lightworks, can't afford VRay (for a while), I still like renders with Virtualight.... I would buy Dribble if I could hook into Aqsys and other Renderman compliant open source tools.
I am cheap. Please don't get me wrong..... but I am enjoying my experiences with open source tools just as much as my Windows kit.
:banana: |
Post by roman // Apr 7, 2008, 5:57pm
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There are many optimizations in TS7.6 most of which will result in greater stability as well. |
Post by kena // Apr 7, 2008, 7:19pm
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Glad to hear it Roman.
As for porting tools from Model to workspace... I understand that by version 8, Workspace will replace Model completely. I'm hoping that the workspace side gets as easy to work with as the Model side by that time. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 7, 2008, 10:47pm
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seems to me some of these features(cloth) should have been held until v.8, not stopping their development just adding depth to it. I know we ask for these things(again cloth), but what should be a "free" point upgrade now has me thinking we are going to be forced to pay for another "should have been in there in the first place" upgrade(booleans, .obj, lightworks etc..). I am so ready to jump ship at this point....sorry roman, I know you are all doing "GREAT" things with this(and you are), but you are are forgetting the fact that we are STILL reliant on tS 6.6(after how long, a year nearly???)....think about that. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 8, 2008, 12:48am
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TS7.5 to TS 7.6 is taking a Year. At the current rate we have 4 more years to reach TS8.0? I asked for a "Bend" tool and now you guys have ME bent over! |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 8, 2008, 1:16am
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I guess I just don't think like like most folk - for me bridge is a great thing, I'm shifting stuff back and forth across it all the time. I'll probably be the only one but I will truly be sorry to see it go.
I have a highly modular approach to my workflow - I do the bulk of my modeling texturing and UV work in the model side, building objects in seperate scenes and/or layers. Then I move the models across the bridge for rigging or for using workspace tools (soft selection etc). The bridge offers a convenient method which I can activate (or not) as I choose for moving between two separate but connected applications - model side and workspace side. The whole thing just seems like a good idea to me I get baffled by the people who want to work solely on one side or the other. Seems like hopping on one leg when you could walk on two.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 8, 2008, 1:33am
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The whole thing just seems like a good idea to me I get baffled by the people who want to work solely on one side or the other. Seems like hopping on one leg when you could walk on two.
I had more than one trouble by transferring meshes from one end to the other. And more than one time i wished that Workspace could the OBJ format so that i don't have to load the stuff in Model then switch to Workspace. Or that i need to switch to Model so that i can export what i have done in Workspace, damaging my mesh by that.
And developing the Bridge stopped the development for the 7 core for a complete year. That was the time they needed to develop the Bridge.
Who owns 6.6 rarely needs the Modeler. There are even a few things finally broken in Modeler that makes it at least for me obsolete to use the Modeler.
You see, there are reasons why i and others dislike the bridge :) |
Post by Steinie // Apr 8, 2008, 1:36am
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Since I don't take life serious I'll give you this scenario.
TrueSpace to me right now is like dating Siamese Twins where one is beautiful and the other is ugly. I can't go anywhere with one without dragging along the other. Heck I have to feed both of them! Did I mention the ugly one has a bad foot so they walk real slow. Sometimes the Bad one throws a fit and ruins the whole Date. I really like the Pretty one but she can't do our say anything without the other ones permission. The Pretty one is getting her Nails done to look even better....so what....the Ugly one kills the mood with her bad breath.... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 8, 2008, 1:50am
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Wow you're really in rare form today Steinie...
I agree with Tiles, the year spent working on the bridge would've been better spent as a month or two making a good SCN and COB importer...
I've always felt that if people wanted 6.6 they still had their copy of 6.6.
*shrug* Of course the bridge is certainly water under the bridge at this point... heh. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 8, 2008, 1:57am
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Since I don't take life serious I'll give you this scenario.
TrueSpace to me right now is like dating Siamese Twins where one is beautiful and the other is ugly. I can't go anywhere with one without dragging along the other. Heck I have to feed both of them! Did I mention the ugly one has a bad foot so they walk real slow. Sometimes the Bad one throws a fit and ruins the whole Date. I really like the Pretty one but she can't do our say anything without the other ones permission. The Pretty one is getting her Nails done to look even better....so what....the Ugly one kills the mood with her bad breath....
LOL - beautiful metaphor Steinie - explains it so much better than a dry list of the strengths and weaknesses of each side.
I guess for me it's like dating two women at once - and old stately madam with great conversation and charm but a dodgy memory and a gorgeous sexy young thing who is easy on the eye but lacking in life skills and experience. I like to dance cheek to cheek with the young one and wile the night away in sparkling (if occasionally erratic) conversation with the charming old Duchess. Best of both worlds in my opinion as each one does things the other one doesn't.
No offence Bob but I think I'll stick with my metaphor;) - good luck with those twins!
And before I annoy anyone else let me apologise to the ladies here for the blatant objectification of the fairer sex in my metaphor:D |
Post by transient // Apr 8, 2008, 2:00am
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Who owns 6.6 rarely needs the Modeler. There are even a few things finally broken in Modeler that makes it at least for me obsolete to use the Modeler.
I'm currently using 7.5 as a de facto 6.7, and I find it is no more stable than 6.6 for most things, but it does have one big advantage: instead of some operations crashing my pc, they only crash tS to the desktop.
It's enough reason to make me want to use 7.5 over 6.6 most of the time.
This mostly happens when I use shadermagic shaders (like digital glazier) on some mesh objects which it seems to arbitrarily like or dislike for reasons I can't yet deduce.
I do wonder why 6.6 wasn't upgraded, as it is much better still than many other apps I've used. There's just something about it. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 8, 2008, 2:07am
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I do wonder why 6.6 wasn't upgraded, as it is much better still than many other apps I've used. There's just something about it.
Because the code busted at the seams. Probably no way to implement the new bones system here for example.
Would've nevertheless been nice to release a third patch for the remaining bugs. Modeler shows that some of them can be fixed. Like clicking the paint face button with a bunch of selected faces that crashes 6.6 here to 100%, and doesn't anymore in Modeler :) |
Post by transient // Apr 8, 2008, 2:10am
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Oh. That's a shame, really.
It makes you wonder how other apps with aging codebases are keeping a lid on things. I guess maybe they aren't. |
Post by brotherx // Apr 8, 2008, 2:25am
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It's the reason why the apps with a long history need more memory and processing power - they are full of legacy code. Problem is, getting rid of the code is not easy because as soon as you re-write it everything else breaks so you bolt on more and more until it is ready to burst, it gets bigger, slower, more memory hungry and unstable.
Take Acrobat reader as an example - has it really got that many new features that it needs a 24mb download as opposed to reader 4's 3-4mb or whatever it was and even on a multi-core system it takes 10 times longer to launch...
I can think of dozens of other apps that have exactly the same issue, windows included.
I guess the bridge is a necessary evil in the steps to creating a whole new version of truespace with a more efficient code-base. |
Post by frootee // Apr 8, 2008, 2:28am
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frootee
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Since I don't take life serious I'll give you this scenario.
TrueSpace to me right now is like dating Siamese Twins where one is beautiful and the other is ugly. I can't go anywhere with one without dragging along the other. Heck I have to feed both of them! Did I mention the ugly one has a bad foot so they walk real slow. Sometimes the Bad one throws a fit and ruins the whole Date. I really like the Pretty one but she can't do our say anything without the other ones permission. The Pretty one is getting her Nails done to look even better....so what....the Ugly one kills the mood with her bad breath....
Um... which one's the Bad one? :D |
Post by prodigy // Apr 8, 2008, 3:10am
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Where we going?
11974
:D |
Post by 2much4U // Apr 9, 2008, 7:16am
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2much4U
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Where we going?
11974
:D
Looks like were going into the abyss of unknowns and questions, but I'm at least relieved to have gotten a whiff of trueSpace's future! :)
Wow...cloth is finally making an appearance in the official tool set! And with booleans in the workspace, it will be much easier to keep from using the bridge! If the hair/fur tools are improved, I can see tS becoming one of my favorite apps again!
I would certainly like to see better import/export features in the workspace, and if I can render an alpha channel from there too, I will certainly be one happy camper! :banana: |
Post by Matski007 // Apr 10, 2008, 1:51am
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wow cloth sim! I totally wasnt expecting this. Ive been working in Maya using Ncloth for a few months now, a module on my university degree asks a group of us to explore Cloth Simulation. Would have been very handy to have gotten my hands on a beta of this for my course (top marks for being able to show new technology!) I wonder if I beg enough I might get it? lol |
Post by Steinie // Aug 4, 2008, 2:40am
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A half million trueSpace 7.6 downloads so far?
Could you imagine if all those users came here at once asking questions?
The user base is definitely going to expand now and that makes giving this program away palatable. If I was a plugin developer I'd be wearing a bib right now catching the drool. |
Post by Délé // Aug 4, 2008, 2:58am
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Délé
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If I was a plugin developer I'd be wearing a bib right now catching the drool.I bet Simon has his on to catch the Dribble. :p
I'm planning on purchasing Visual Studio this month. I got some ideas for plug-ins myself. Never wrote one before though, so we'll see how long it takes me to figure out.
1/2 million downloads is a pretty good user base. That should invigorate all kinds of 3rd party developers. :) |
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