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Would you buy an avatar?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Would you buy an avatar? // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Jul 31, 2007, 2:11pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just polishing off another Guiness to drown my sorrows as Faceworx let me down tonight....:(
I really wanted to get Roman a nice new avatar (and maybe a few of my family) but such is the limitations of free software.
This got me thinking about how good Genhead was (is). For those who have no idea what that is, it is similar software to Faceworx but the results are much better (see attachment below).
Now Roman says in his blog;
"truePlay2.0 will introduce fully articulated, customizable real time user avatars built on top of truespace7.5 character architecture. It will add animated facial expressions, game quality collision, improved real time DX9 engine, fully distributed physics, second generation 3D positional speech and sound as well as content server which will provide a user repository for customer avatars and private shared spaces."
and this got me thinking.
I cannot justify purchasing Genhead for myself but I would if I could recoup the cost by providing avatars for use in tS7.1/7.5/tp2.0 at a small charge.
You would send me the two photos and I would send back all you need to put your avatar (head) into tS.
Program is £150 so I would need at least 5 'jobs' at £30 per time...if you were not happy with the finished model then you would not pay (Paypal?) I would simply send you multi-view previews for your decision. Alas I could not send you the model for obvious reasons...:rolleyes:
Is £30 too much? I would need to spend at least an hour or two on each head and you do not have to purchase the software.
Remember that this is just a thought for now but I would appreciate your feedback. I seem to have a knack of getting good results with this software so I thought it might be of use to some of you.
LMK either way...:D |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jul 31, 2007, 2:39pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Genhead does do a pretty decent job and in Splinters hands I think folks would be pretty happy with the final product.
I gave it a shot a few months ago and while the software's fairly easy to use Splinters seems to be able to coax a better end product out of the process.
30 might be a tad bit high (trying to convert to $ in my head but I'm afraid it's as empty as the one in the image below). I'm not quite sure what the best price point would be. Although the product is relatively easy to use, it does take some tedious work to do and a few hours probably is a fairly realistic figure to work from. The program is kinda pricey so this is a good chance to get "ahead" (pun intended). Also, I'm not sure if an avatar includes a body or just the head. I imagine that inclusion of a body would definitely justify a higher price, even if it's generic.
P.K.
P.S. - the head below does look pretty much like me except for the hair I added later. That needs a bit more work. A shaved head would have helped me some. I made the bridge of the nose a bit narrow too. Kinda hard for me to judge where to put markers but I think Splinters seems to have it down well. |
Post by splinters // Jul 31, 2007, 10:20pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers prof, I agree that £30 (maybe $60ish) does sound high but then again three hours + of my time, if you include Photoshop work on the texture and subsequent tS testing, is worth more than that.....bit of an enigma really...:o
People want a product at a price they feel is affordable but in the case of a service like this it is effectively 'bespoke' with each face being tailor made; nothing that can be done on a production line.
Maybe I will have to scrap the idea. You never know what source material you may have to work from either...:o |
Post by xmanflash // Jul 31, 2007, 11:42pm
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Cheers prof, I agree that £30 (maybe $60ish) does sound high but then again three hours + of my time, if you include Photoshop work on the texture and subsequent tS testing, is worth more than that.....bit of an enigma really...:o
People want a product at a price they feel is affordable but in the case of a service like this it is effectively 'bespoke' with each face being tailor made; nothing that can be done on a production line.
Maybe I will have to scrap the idea. You never know what source material you may have to work from either...:o
I'll do it splinters - I never have any time anyhow! I can get my brother in the UK to send you 30 quid.. I'm in australia.. Thanks for offering! |
Post by splinters // Aug 1, 2007, 12:30am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers Xman, just sounding this out for now so I can't promise anything but I am contacting Genemation about a 'complimentary' copy as they are cheekily using my head render to promote the software now...:mad:
You would at least think a free copy was in order then I could do this service for a 'donation' rather than a fee.
I can but try...you don't ask...you don't get...:D |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Aug 1, 2007, 4:02am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Cheers prof, I agree that £30 (maybe $60ish) does sound high but then again three hours + of my time, if you include Photoshop work on the texture and subsequent tS testing, is worth more than that.....bit of an enigma really...:o
Agreed on that point. Labor involved does justify a higher price. Guess my thoughts were on the tight budgets of many folks here moderating the demand. Still, if you only need five to get going...that might not be difficult to start.
You never know what source material you may have to work from either...
Is true. Webcam photos are definitely inadequate for the task. Diffuse lighting would probably also be of help so sunny outdoor pics would likely cause some challenges. Don't want strong shadows pre-burned into the textures. Mine came out a bit reddish orange because I didn't really do any photoshop optimization and the lighting wasn't exactly ideal when I took the front and side images.
Good luck on the complimentary copy. Would be cool if this could work out for you that way! :) |
Post by jamesmc // Aug 1, 2007, 4:34am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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The Faceworx does have its limitation, but is still useful. I made this short animation for a Political Blog.
It's about a crazy nutjob Minister in Kansas who protests military funerals blah blah (don't look if you are offended by such people.)
I used Facial Animator to attach the wav file to the weighted points of the head created in Faceworx. This was like my third head I've done in Faceworx, so it's not perfect.
I've also attached heads from Faceworx to bodies as props in Poser and those models made in MakeHuman, which gives the program a lot of potential.
Here's the URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cxW9PVcBwg
Like I said, if you are offended by they type of vicious person don't look at the video. You've probably read about Fred Phelps or seen him on the news.
I don't think I would ask money for this type of product as it is not professional enough to be considered an "A+" avatar. At least I wouldn't buy it for myself.
I faded the head in the video program I use, so the viewer could see the signs that Fred Phelps uses at the protests he goes to and makes his children and grandchildren hold the signs. (I know it's sick)
There is just objectionable content in the video, no profanity...just showing what I used Faceworx and in this case Facial Animator in tS for. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 1, 2007, 5:36am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Chuckle! I saw the title and originator of this thread and thought Splinters was offering personalised Pepe the Pig avatars!
30 quid is about NZ$90.00 - and for a poor(ish) guy like me I couldn't justify the expenditure. Additionally, I get to see my ugly mug in the mirror every morning - I wouldn't necessarily want to inflict it on others and would prefer a more 'fantasy' type avatar. We're not all as good looking as you are Paul!
On a general note; Roman didn't mention anything about available file sizes for avatars - I may be wrong but I'm guessing that he's thinking of files around the size of the Tank Girl character and Splinters head model looks way heavier than that. So Paul I'd think about finding out about avatar file size restrictions before parting with your hard earned cash for that software.
Of course if your plea for a free copy pays off that's a whole different thing - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.... |
Post by splinters // Aug 1, 2007, 8:01am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers guys. The beauty of Genhead is that it outputs three models automatically; a 1k, 5k and 9k (I think it is 5k!) and the relevant texture.
In the free section just after tS7.5 launch I provided a tS scene where the eyes followed you as you moved around the scene. This head was from Genhead and I got the whole thing to under 1mb...and that was with hair too...:D
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2795&page=2&highlight=eyes
Of course the one I used for the renders was the 9k version and even then I subdivided it...but that is what 'photo-renders' are about, avatars can be much 'rougher'. |
Post by iBrent // Aug 1, 2007, 7:00pm
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iBrent
Total Posts: 102
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Hi Splinters,
I'd be interested if you can work out a "donation" option. Maybe we could get more people to commit at a lower price.
Let us know how it goes. :)
iBrent |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 2, 2007, 9:03pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi Splinters.
I wish you luck with this endeavor, it would be even better if the Genhead folks give you a license as compensation for that promo they use of yours, but either way, I hope you manage to get a good avatar generator.
Along those lines, I just wanted to give you a heads up on some new related technology streaming down the pike at us all... very interesting stuff indeed.
Here's the link, it's a Utube Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nice6NYb_WA
Cheers,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RAYMAN // Aug 3, 2007, 2:20am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Hi Splinters.
Along those lines, I just wanted to give you a heads up on some new related technology streaming down the pike at us all... very interesting stuff indeed.
Here's the link, it's a Utube Video.
Cheers,
- 3dvisuals dude
Very interesting video !
Is there a product related to that coming up ?
Or is it just science...... |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Aug 3, 2007, 7:25pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Quite impressive indeed! |
Post by splinters // Aug 3, 2007, 10:32pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Now that is simply amazing stuff...thanks for the link...:D
As for a program, maybe it is already licensed within the film industry as the paper and presentation was from Siggraph 8 years ago. I would certainly like to have a play with it.
I guess the other facegen stuff out there can do similar things but not this advanced (and simple). Wonder what happened to it.... |
Post by splinters // Aug 3, 2007, 10:35pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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However, you can read more about the guys work here;
http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~blanz/
fascinating stuff. Check out his papers, you can't download them but I am fascinated by the one entitled; 'Creating Face Models from Vague Mental Images'.....WOW, I could do with some of that...;)
EDIT: Found that paper;
http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~albrecht/eg2006.pdf |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 3, 2007, 11:35pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Yeah, I was wondering myself whether this is going commercial soon or already has somewhere... great potential for many uses.
Y'know, I'll bet Mike Sherwood would probably know what happened to this specific technology after Siggraph because he's into doing similar stuff professionally, even for Scotland Yard! His info is on the Caligari Homesite at this link:
http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/trueReasons/Mike_Sherwood/default.asp?Cate=GtrueReasons
If he has a PM here you might drop him a note on it, seems to me if anybody here would be on top of that particular new tech it would be him!
- 3dvisuals dude |
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