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can you tell who it is yet?
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can you tell who it is yet? // Work in Progress
Post by MadMouse // Sep 24, 2006, 9:39pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Another cracking render Gromit :) I know she's a film star, and film stars are perfect but I cant help thinking that she's a little to perfect. Maybe a couple of flaws in her skin would help the realism. Just an idea, she looks great. |
Post by Shike // Sep 24, 2006, 10:24pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Looks awesome ! :D
Not sure about skindefekts though....yes, they do add realism, but it looks like
chrisj is going for the dreamy studiophoto look. And they are not 100% realistic ;)
Lots of makeup, warm lighting, and a soft filter on the camera and photoshopwork...even a 50year old looks perfect then ! :D
Good thing nowadays for thoose who want to create CG celebrities is that a lot of forums and sites post highres facial photos of the celebrities on red-carpet events...I've used that as a skin and texture ref for my (future) project, but it's extremely difficult see any defekts behind all makeup :rolleyes: |
Post by Nephos // Sep 25, 2006, 10:05am
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Nephos
Total Posts: 59
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Man this is has been a great tread to follow! Superb work chrisJ!! I did a yahoo image search and this is a good likeness. The only thing I could see is:
I don’t have a clue what the little indent where the mouth and cheek meets is called but the model needs it.
The lips are a bit sharp and a tad too thin (bottom) compared to some of the photos I've seen.
The under the bottom lip could come in a bit more and a little more fullness to the chin as well.
Lastly the under eye lids are a bit unrefined (wrinkles and a bit of bag)
You are very detail oriented so I figured these are some minor details but some that will add the "realism" you are going for unless she is to be stylized...
Anyways very inspiring work
Nephos |
Post by chrisj // Sep 25, 2006, 1:36pm
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Good feedback as always folks, and all taken on board.
I'm not looking for perfection in the texturing stakes, as I want her to have that 'dreamy' look, as you mentioned Shike. If you ever go to Renderosity and look at the poser models, they all look over textured, clearly by people who cant model very well, and the character morphs lack any sense of reality, in my opinion. I'd rather get the model right, and keep the texture simple. Who wants to see beautiful women warts 'n' all, not me.
The areas for improvement include the eyelids, and the lips, and once I sort out a smile, I'm convinced she will look a lot more realistic. Also, I'm goingto improve the iris texture, as it looks a little too well defined,as with the lips(nature is not perfect after all).
I'm still learning a lot here myself, but once I've completed this project, I'll be much the wiser about human anatomy, texturing, SDS, vray, you name it.
Keep the practical crits coming.
Cheers
Chris |
Post by mrbones // Sep 26, 2006, 12:31pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Skin and hair look great, only thing I see wrong is her left eye is looking a little too off. Other than that superb and bravo. |
Post by roman // Sep 26, 2006, 1:45pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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Charlize is back allright:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 28, 2006, 5:34am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I've always felt that a lot of Charlize Theron's beauty lies in her eyes - a sort of far away look, like she is gazing out over the South African veldt. I think you've captured that very well (and certainly far better than I ever could!).
The only suggestion I'd make is that as a South African Charlizes skin always seems to have that slightly sun-kissed and weathered look despite makeup - I think it's an attribute of her natural skin colouring. Having said that I have absolutely no idea how you could recreate that in trueSpace |
Post by chrisj // Sep 28, 2006, 3:43pm
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Good to see you're following my thread Roman. Getting there slowly.
All in the eyes as you say Wizard, and I'm close to getting them right.
Latest attempts posted below. The first post is an overlay of my model over one of the reference photo's I've been using. Although it's close, the subtle errors have a huge impact on the final look. An interesting thing I've discovered is that real human eyes, when staring at infinity (dreamily into the distance, for all you non -scientific types), although basically spherical, do no align exactly parallel with each other and with the axis of the face. If the eyes are placed parallel, the face does not look right, and the eyes do not fit the orbits. Aligning the eyes divergent to one another, looks more natural to the observer. Just thought I'd share. |
Post by Zeipher // Sep 28, 2006, 3:50pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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LOL! Amazing! You've even got the eyelashes right!!! That's so funny! Amazing, of course, but I couldn't help but notice that in the picture on 'her' left eye, one of the lashes looks thicker than the others, and if you look at your image, it's the same! Now "that's" attention to detail. Very impressive stuff. You gotta tell me if the eye-lash thing was intentional, lol!
So now you're just down to doing the skin, right? I've got a few textures you can try out if you want, but have you tried SSS? I think that's the only thing stopping it from looking real in my opinion. Hmmmm.... (Show off :p) Lol.
Andy |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 28, 2006, 5:49pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The earings are a really nice added touch. This is really looking great Chris!
Comparing with the photo it looks like you could fix the eyebrows just by making them darker since her's are dark brown, and more irregular as they get to the outer ends. The eyebrows on your model taper too uniformly. Heck you could probably just use a threshold function to isolate her eyebrows from the photo and then use her real eyebrows in the alpha mapped eyebrow texture. :)
-Jack. |
Post by hemulin // Sep 28, 2006, 9:07pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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:eek: that's some amazing stuff Chris; I really like the first image, the front on one. |
Post by Shike // Sep 28, 2006, 10:25pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Agree with all the previous speakers: amazing ! :D |
Post by MadMouse // Sep 28, 2006, 11:49pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Very Impressive Chris. This thread has me riveted. A gallery winner for sure. (are you listening Roman? ;) ) |
Post by splinters // Sep 29, 2006, 3:55am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Lovely, lovely work.
I am very jealous...:cool: |
Post by Steinie // Sep 29, 2006, 4:53am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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What is that horizontal line above her right eye? It's in every picture. The last picture is really her, right? It too has the line.
Very nice work and looking foward to seeing it when complete. |
Post by Nephos // Sep 29, 2006, 11:31am
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Nephos
Total Posts: 59
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As I said before this is inspiring work! The composite does revile what I pointed out to before about the corners of the mouth. Her mouth line goes straight across on the model and has a slightly upward curve in the comp reference picture. This causes the little dimples in the corners of the mouth. You can too see that the top lip on the model is too sharp. Natural lips have a bevel (for a lack of a better word for it) around the edge. This area catches the light on the top lip. Also look at the bottom lip, there needs to be a little more fullness (or brought down a little) Look at the left nostril; it is not symmetrical on the reference. If you have Photoshop check the color values of the skin from the reference, this will give you a starting range for the skin shaders color. That will help with the saturation.
Again these are small nuances that I saw as a practical crit.
Keep up the good work!
Nephos
A few years ago...
http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/ImagesGallery/2003/jun03/image.asp?Cate=GImages&img=4
I may have to try another... thanks again for the inspiration :) |
Post by Alien // Sep 29, 2006, 3:14pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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An interesting thing I've discovered is that real human eyes, when staring at infinity (dreamily into the distance, for all you non -scientific types), although basically spherical, do no align exactly parallel with each other and with the axis of the face. If the eyes are placed parallel, the face does not look right, and the eyes do not fit the orbits. Aligning the eyes divergent to one another, looks more natural to the observer. Just thought I'd share.
1 tip I remember reading about eye alignment is to use some object [e.g. cube], & set both eyes to look-at the object. If you want her to have that far-off look, simply move the target object further away. |
Post by MadMouse // Sep 30, 2006, 12:03am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Any chance of a wire frame shot chris? I'd love to see the finished mesh. |
Post by splinters // Sep 30, 2006, 12:20am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I'll second that...;) |
Post by chrisj // Sep 30, 2006, 1:56am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Glad you're all enjoying this thread. I'm certainly enjoying the process of developing the model. A few have been pointed out that I'm aware of. The line above the eyebrow is an artefact of the transparency map, and I haven't got round to chaning it yet. I did try generating a map for the eyebrows from the reference imag, but it didn't look right in the end. I may try again. Nephos, you're right about the mouth, and it's the next part to deal with once I'm happy about the eyes, and I still want to add a slight smile, which will mean quite a bit of reshaping. The lacrimal area of the eye is proving a little problematic, as Charlize has a slightly 'non standard' eye shape. I'm also convinced now,from my own experience, that she has a little 'squint' or strabismus in the eye, which changes her appearance (hope there are no legal repercussions to hat statement if I'm wrong). I've been modelling mainly the right hand side of the head, and there a few changes to be made to the left, in particular the shape and position of the nostril, but I'll get round to that soon.
I'll get a new wire posted soon, and I hope to post a near finished image in the next few days, though it depends on how many beers I have at the rugby club today.
Cheers all
Chris |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 2, 2006, 10:55pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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An interesting thing I've discovered is that real human eyes, when staring at infinity (dreamily into the distance, for all you non -scientific types), although basically spherical, do no align exactly parallel with each other and with the axis of the face. If the eyes are placed parallel, the face does not look right, and the eyes do not fit the orbits. Aligning the eyes divergent to one another, looks more natural to the observer. Just thought I'd share.
1 tip I remember reading about eye alignment is to use some object [e.g. cube], & set both eyes to look-at the object. If you want her to have that far-off look, simply move the target object further away.
While we're remembering things we've read I recall an article which claimed that when someone stares at a totally uniform surface - like a clear blue sky for example - the eyes naturally focus on a point only about a metre (or 3 feet) in front of the face. This is apparently why it can be difficult to spot a high-flying plane on a clear day - the eyes are focusing so closely that distant small objects are simply out of focus and thus hard to see.
Chris - your attention to detail is impressive - I do hope that when you finish this project you send a picture to Charlize - I'm sure she would be flattered. |
Post by chrisj // Oct 13, 2006, 12:00pm
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Latest update. Not much more than tweaking the mesh, modifying the eye texture a bit, and I've rendered using SSS as a test this time. Still not satisfied with the eyes , but it may be down to the lack of texture, rather than the shape.
At least she looks a bit happier.
Cheers
Chris |
Post by chrisj // Oct 13, 2006, 2:41pm
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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It may not look it, but the last post has a considerably modified mesh than the previous one, although it may not appear that way. I think I have a bit of learning still to do with SSS to improve effect, and I may well revert to the glossy shader for the next post. I used the facial animator to change the mouth, and it made a reasonable job, but it still needs tidying up. To be honest, I think I've gone almost as far as I can, without resorting to more complex texturing. Still looking for feedback.
Chris |
Post by GraySho // Oct 14, 2006, 1:34am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Somehow that skin shader doesn't work for me. It looked better in previous posts. |
Post by splinters // Oct 14, 2006, 4:35am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Agreed, she looks somewhat plastic now...:o |
Post by Grommit // Oct 15, 2006, 5:41am
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Grommit
Total Posts: 32
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Hi Chris,
Wow, this is such a fantastic model! Well done!
Since you're interested in realism, may I make a couple of suggestions? To my eye, the mesh is quite brilliant, what's not quite right is the skin texture.
1) Even in a photographic model with retouched makeup, skin is never exactly the same colour all over. There are always subtle shifts in tones around the eye socket, the inner edge of the eyelids and inner eye corners.
2) Equally, no matter how much makeup, there's always subtle stippling and surface direction changes from skin pores
3) The edges of lipstick are never perfect lines up close, but fractionally fuzzy.
4) You're lovely lady has on very flat foundation cream, and no the layers of makeup colour on top. Consult a female friend ;-)
I think you've reached the point of excellence with your model that the difference between it a realism is almost psychological. Nice work!
Best wishes
Grommit |
Post by chrisj // Oct 16, 2006, 5:29am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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General consensus then that the earlier shader was better. Reverted to the old one, and it looks a lot better. Still need a bit of work getting to grips with SSS I think. Still a bit of work around the mouth as you suggest Gromit, I need to consider my next step wrt texturing.
Chris |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 16, 2006, 4:00pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hey Chris,
I was having some trouble with the SSS shader in Vray too. So I pulled out the VRay course and spent a few days on it. Here's what I came up with for an SSS skin shader:
http://www.motbc.com/ForumStuff/skin_test2.png
It's one point light. I did up a decent skin texture for the color map, but it still works decent with just a solid color and you can just use Charlise's photos for your texture anyway. Bump map is just the dmndtile.tga that comes with trueSpace. (Hey if it works why fight it? ;-))
SSS is set to:
http://www.motbc.com/ForumStuff/SSS_settings.png
You have to turn on GI and Caustics for it to work. Also I found upping the photon size and number of photons a little bit can help. Anti-aliasing is also needed since the SSS somtimes leaves glowy dot artifacts.
I did notice something really annoying about tS's implementation of Vray. There is no mapped chanel functionallity! :( :( I can't find any way to do specular or reflection maps. And the Mapped Phong shader apparently isn't available for Vray either! :mad:
Anycase hope that helps!
-Jack. |
Post by splinters // Oct 16, 2006, 9:07pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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jedwards; any chance of posting the scene so I can test this out properly to get the same results?
Nice texture by the way. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 17, 2006, 8:11am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks Splinters. I don't want to hijack Chris's thread so I'll post it in another thread. You'll want to test it with different lighting, I found that it's very fickle with light distance and intensities. Could be that it doesn't produce as good a result in other situations. Also the numbers may need to be tweaked a bit to get a good translucent glow in backlit situations.
Also if you can get the specular a tad blueish that might help too. Mine kept reseting to white soon as I applied the material. :mad:
-Jack. |
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