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The Interactive Scene Objects Yard
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
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The Interactive Scene Objects Yard // Roundtable
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 4:08am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi folks,
The purpose of this thread is to establish a single place where those of us who are not Scripters can suggest any ideas we may have for interactive scenes and objects we'd each like to have in our own immersive scenes which would require Scripting or LE work which is beyond our current capabilities.
Frootee started a cool thread here to create a new trueSpace Scripter's Competition, and in that thread I tossed in this semi-related idea.
Frootee thinks it is a good idea for us all and also thinks it could become a great source of ongoing ideas for Scripters to draw from in his Scripting Competitions as well.
What I said in that thread I have quoted below to give you all a better idea of exactly what I mean here, and if you have any ideas yourselves for Interactive Immersive Scenes and Objects which may require Scripting beyond your current capabilities... now you have a place to put them where those seeking them will be paying close attention.
If successful, this thread will become quite a repository of links to working Interactive Scripted Objects for us all, and will make the transition for all of us to creating our own Immersive Interactive Scenes for truePlay 1.3 a lot easier and much more of a community effort.
I have had an idea for a while which has been growing on me and it involves all you great scripters here, or it could... I should say, if you guys wanted to pursue the idea.
It could really be fantastic in fact if you guys think it's a good idea too, and it would help this community to a huge extent in learning to develop genuine interactivity within their own scenes for truePlay1.3 FPN usage by others.
The idea is to have a kind of "Interactive Scene Objects Yard" thread, where people could suggest interactive scene and object ideas from time to time which would require scripting or LE work to accomplish which is beyond the current capabilities of those suggesting the ideas for consideration.
I suppose from time to time you guys must run into the same "what can I do today for everybody" kind of thoughts that the rest of us mere mortals have...;) so this could provide a thread of interesting and perhaps even unprecedented Scripting and LE concepts to draw from for those days when you'd like to take a stab at something completely new.
As a for instance, there's two kinds of immersive space "entrances" I suggested the other day here to W!ZARD which have yet to actually be scripted... one is a "magic door" which appears as an approved avatar approaches it and dissappears after he enters it, using a proximity sensor tied to a visibility script to make the doorway appear, open, close, and dissappear, all at the right times.
The second is a variation of that using no door at all, where the doorway opening is covered by an invisible plane acting as a "force field" in a collision sense, with the normals flipped only on approach of an approved Avatar via a scripted proximity sensor and flipped again upon that Avatar leaving that zone after entering.
Simple ideas, I think, and I'd do them myself if I had Norm's two scripting tutorials to guide me on it, but until I (and lots of other people here) can afford to invest in those tutorials I won't be making them myself, or I would have by now.
I have dozens of interesting interactivity ideas like this, and I'll bet lots of folk here have more and better ones than I do as well.
Lets make this happen folks, it's something that will be great for us all.
Thanks,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 4:48am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Here's six ideas off the top of my head for starters... I'll put together a proper big list of suggestions later tonight here.
Suggestion# Description
001 ) "Magic Door" - Described in the first post of this thread.
002) "Force Field" - Described in the first post of this thread.
003) "Browser Screen Object" -
A 3D mesh of a computer flat screen which actually serves as a web browser. If this can be done inside truePlay 1.3 it could make it possible to view video and audio in that screen object utilizing the bandwidth of the viewer as opposed to that of an online server of the actual truePlay scene (ie: Caligari's truePlaces, for instance).
Note that I have quite a bit of usable Basic code in this specific regard already for anyone taking this idea on.
004) "Trapdoor" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all
Not a literal trap, but a double-door in a floor which is tied to a proximity sensor so that when an Avatar passes over it opens, dropping them down a chute into another level.
005) "Holodeck"
Spacekdet gave me this idea, I think he was kidding at the time though, but I'm not... I'll leave the methods and implementation on this one to your imagination.
EDIT: I found a free Holodeck texture and bump in a zipfile on the web which would be great to use with this project, looks just like the Star Trek holodeck. I've added it at the end of this post here for download.
006) "Drawbridge"
Just like it sounds, hooked to a proximity sensor.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by frootee // Aug 8, 2007, 5:48am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Thanks 3dv. That's a great start.
Anybody else?
I'm currently trying to interpret the developer guide documentation.
Froo |
Post by Paul Boland // Aug 8, 2007, 7:55am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Something that would be nice to have for interactive scenes would be Transportation.
Now, I'm not talking about a full equipped 4x4 that a user can hop in and go plundering across the landscape! LOL! But something a bit more basic.
As an example, a conveyor belt. A person steps onto it and they move with the movement of the conveyor. What would be nice would be if we could customise the shape of the conveyors. Then we could create a train on tracks, a boat in water, or a run of the mill moving floor.
A user steps onto the conveyor and without having to worry about moving themselves, are taken on a tour of a scene, they just needing to Look using the mouse.
Also, levers and buttons. Again, customiseable if possible so a user could click on a pam scanner next to a door, the scanner glows and then the door opens. You get the idea. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 11:13am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Something that would be nice to have for interactive scenes would be Transportation.
Now, I'm not talking about a full equipped 4x4 that a user can hop in and go plundering across the landscape! LOL! But something a bit more basic.
As an example, a conveyor belt. A person steps onto it and they move with the movement of the conveyor. What would be nice would be if we could customise the shape of the conveyors. Then we could create a train on tracks, a boat in water, or a run of the mill moving floor.
A user steps onto the conveyor and without having to worry about moving themselves, are taken on a tour of a scene, they just needing to Look using the mouse.
Also, levers and buttons. Again, customiseable if possible so a user could click on a pam scanner next to a door, the scanner glows and then the door opens. You get the idea.
Excellent suggestions Paul!
I like them all and could definitely use them all!
Thanks, and if you think of more just jump in here with them anytime, the more the merrier!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 11:20am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Those really are good ideas Paul had. (You did say "vehicles," right Paul?:D )
I have a few more to add myself now and as the days go by there will soon be a massive list here no doubt.
Here's my second batch:
007) "The truePlace trueRoller" -
This is a Shared Space Multi-Avatar Concept Vehicle which I designed and introduced in the "Rube Goldberg Scenario" thread in the "Garage" area of the forums here. There is a preliminary model of it available for download in that thread along with a posted image of it. It will need slight remodeling I think in regard to the platform wheels directly beneath the avatars (which I can easily do) but could actually be a feasible project to introduce Multi-Avatar Travel along special tracks (also provided in downloadable kit form in that same thread) within multi-user online environments such as truePlaces. This would not be an easy project but might be a lot of fun.:D
A script will be needed to control initial movement along the track and stopping on the track at the station (an overhead positioning loop was modeled for this purpose) as well as an additional script to control several identical "accelerator devices" (part of the kit) along the track will be needed. Another script will also need to be devised to maintain avatar cab spin along only one lateral cab axis (ensuring lateral stabilization on turns), so this would be quite a difficult challenge indeed, but the concept does show promise and could be especially rewarding if the project were adopted by a trueServe Host such as Caligari for public use within a new "Scenic" Shared Space, or used in the upcoming rentable private shared spaces Caligari is about to make available to us. It would even be fun to ride it alone! And if you are really into it, you might even script your favorite music for the ride as well!:cool:
008) "ImageLink and Texture Swapping Device" -
This would be an object scripted to swap a series of predefined textures on one or more additional scene objects when it is left-clicked. These predefined textures would also need to be indexed so they could also be referenced via script for link association as well, where each image when clicked upon could activate a weblink, script, or program specific to that given image.
There are numerous practical applications for such a device within immersive spaces, but it's the fanciful ones that might be the most fun. Walk out of an igloo onto the polar ice fields with a friend, click on the sun overhead and the whole scene transforms into a grass hut on a Tahitian beach.... for instance, complete with the sounds of reef waves and gulls.:D
As for a practical application, see the device within the park level dome in my previous "Loft Audio Video Lounge" project here at the forums, and how this same script as explained there would transform that semicircle of weblink screens simultaneously within that dome, turning a few image links into hundreds with just a few clicks. In that same project a similar script on a weekly server-based timer would transform all the image links along the park level walkway screens simultaneously on a daily basis as well.
There would be hundreds of applications for such a script both online and in CD based truePlay scenes, Interior Design proposals, Game Design, you name it.
009) "Carry and Place" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all
I'm not at all sure if this can be done, but the idea is simple... Avatars need to be able to "carry" small objects and "place" small objects during multi-user online sessions in order to facilitate the common basis for elementary to sophisticated multi-user strategy and role playing games. While online use would probably require a server-side script compatable with Calgari's "trueServe" hosting software, a similar script could be utilized offline as well for single player CD-based adventures.
Perhaps such objects might become invisible when "carried" for instance, and have their world space coordinates be fed to them as offsets of the realtime Avatar world space coordinates until some "placing" action is invoked by the Avatar, whereupon the coordinate relationship would cease and the object become visible again. Whatever the method employed, the end result is worth striving for inasmuch as it would certainly lead to the development of some interesting truePlay strategy and roleplaying games.
If this is possible, the addition of an "inventory" window which is launchable by hotkey or macro would be a big plus in managing any related strategies.
010) "Tagalong" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all (Via offset to Carry and Place)
This would be a kids feature. A scripted object (a virtual pet) which when clicked upon follows the Avatar closely everywhere the Avatar goes during that session until clicked upon again or the Avatar ends that session, at which time it reverts to it's default scene location.
On the other hand it could be used as an Adult feature, if one wanted to be followed everywhere by a miniature bill collector, for instance, just to "feel right at home" as you dare explore the uneasy freedom of a virtual world!:)
011) "Bell Buoy" -
SteveBe created a fantastic new "WavePool" script in his "Torus Knot" thread at the forums here which actually produces controllable waves for immersive scenes. To create a realistic harbor scene with it, however, would require at least one realistic bell buoy with all the proper physical characteristics that entails including an anchor, as well as a scripted bell sound activated by buoy angle offset from absolute World Z. The wave collision would do the rest.
012) "Lighthouse" -
A simple lowpoly working lighthouse for use on distant scene shores in night scenes.
013) "Background Audio Activator" -
A scripted object which activates a long looping background audio soundtrack as long as an Avatar exists within that scene to hear it. This could activate the sound of birds, waves, traffic, cows, music, or whatever is appropriate to a given scene, even the pre-recorded repeated yells from your spouse to get off that computer and go walk the dog, do the dishes, or take the garbage out.:D
More to follow soon....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 7:12pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Something that would be nice to have for interactive scenes would be Transportation.
Now, I'm not talking about a full equipped 4x4 that a user can hop in and go plundering across the landscape! LOL! But something a bit more basic.
As an example, a conveyor belt. A person steps onto it and they move with the movement of the conveyor. What would be nice would be if we could customise the shape of the conveyors. Then we could create a train on tracks, a boat in water, or a run of the mill moving floor.
A user steps onto the conveyor and without having to worry about moving themselves, are taken on a tour of a scene, they just needing to Look using the mouse.
Also, levers and buttons. Again, customiseable if possible so a user could click on a pam scanner next to a door, the scanner glows and then the door opens. You get the idea.
Hi Paul,
In SteveBe's "Torus Knot" thread in the Gallery section of the forum here there was some discussion earlier about creating "scripted conveyor belts." The same method (I believe) which Steve used in that thread to create his cool new "WavePool" object (which can be downloaded there) could be utilized in the scripting of a working conveyor belt with very little effort, asuming one knows their way around the LE, that is.
This idea you had above about the "Glowing Hand Scanner Switch" (I gave it a new name for reference) is a very good one and similar to something I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago.
UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all
EDIT: It just occurred to me that what you described above is quite similar to a device trueBlue scripted for me a while back here in response to a similar request I made.
I'm attaching the scripted object to this post below, it is a 3d RsObj model and RsScn scene of a device with many switches which I created (only one of which is currently scripted) which could be used to open doors or perform any other scripted activity within immersive scenes whether online or offline.
When (in the case of the object attached here) one mouses-over the blue switch on the device, it will highlight (glow) and when one left clicks on that device it will perform the execution of an additional script. In this case the "additional script" is just a simple "proof of concept" script which launches an alert box in the Workspace window indicating that button has been clicked, but it could easily be replaced by a script to open a door as you stated above, or do anything else for that matter as well.
I'm not sure how to hook it up to other objects in the LE (remember folks, I'm an LE idiot here) but it seems like it would be a rather easy thing for someone to do who is knowledgeable in LE work.
So this one already exists, in part. it just needs to be hooked up.
Excellent ideas... keep them coming!
- 3dvisuals dude
Here's that working FPN Script Switch as a zipped RsObj and Rsscn. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 9, 2007, 6:22am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Here's another batch to consider...
014) "The Birds" -
A scripted animation of birds (models or images), flying high overhead in typical imperfect formation keyframed along with appropriate distant-sounding bird noises (ie: chirps or whatever, depending on the type of bird).
Needless to say they would have to be hooked to a timer and have some randomized timing interval and randomized path direction aspect as well or it wouldn't look and sound very realistic in use at all.
Basically it would be way nice for us all to be able to just "drag and drop" such a feature into any given immersive outdoor environment we create in order to add a subtle nuance of realism to it, especially with the option of alternate versions (ie: gulls, geese, crows, etcetera) appropriate to various environmental scenes.
015) "Waterfall" -
We all love the sound of them and the look of them, but creating a fairly realistic one for a shared space setting would have to be the ultimate challenge indeed. For inspiration on related methods and effects there's some fairly simple but very good examples of waterfalls in the first release of the game "Unreal" as I recall.
016) "Chasm" -
A scripted texture of molten lava flowing along a narrow winding path seemingly hundreds of feet below an Avatar rope-bridge which connects the entrances of two steeply walled mountains.
017) "The Ancient Riddle Switch" -
There's a doorway before you which is partially obstructed by steel bars. In order to open them you need to solve the riddle of the correct order in which several stone buttons above the doorway are clicked. These stone buttons have some ancient and obscure symbols on them and as each is clicked it remains "lit" until all of them have been clicked... at which time they either activate a sound and open the steel bars to allow access or they all revert to their previous "unlit" state.
More to follow soon.....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Aug 9, 2007, 6:52am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Wow, lots of ideas there 3dvd. Some definitely trickier then others. Would be fun to see a lot of this stuff though. One thing to keep in mind with regards to sound. If I recall some previous messing around I did quite a while back, tS can only play one sound at a time. So that is somewhat limiting. I could be wrong, but I think I recall that from when I was playing with sound about a year ago. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 9, 2007, 6:56am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow, lots of ideas there 3dvd. Some definitely trickier then others. Would be fun to see a lot of this stuff though. One thing to keep in mind with regards to sound. If I recall some previous messing around I did quite a while back, tS can only play one sound at a time. So that is somewhat limiting. I could be wrong, but I think I recall that from when I was playing with sound about a year ago.
Wow... that IS a bummer.
Definitely something for the Feature Suggestions then, huh?!?
Oh well.... thanks for pointing that out at this point, I'll try to dream up stuff a tad less complex then in an audio sense!
Strange limitation....:confused:
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Paul Boland // Aug 9, 2007, 8:00am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Thanks, 3DVD, for the info and the extra suggestions. Reading some of your suggestions it sounds more like you want TruePlace to be an interactive environment like a game. TagAlong pets, Carry and Drop. Light houses, rivers, chasms... I want all this too! YES!!!! GIVE ME THEM!!! LOL!! But my only concern is can TruePlace handle them? It would be FANTASTIC if it can, but I have my doubts.
Remember the wonderful mushroom village? Well, I remember my first few times in there, I asked someone was it possible to open the doors of the huts so we could go inside looking for eggs? But it wasn't. As much as I want all the stuff in this thread, I don't think TruePlace is equipped enough to handle them. I think for these we really need to move towards a gaming engine. But you never know... Perhaps we've sparked a mountain of ideas with Caligari and Roman is now demanding his staff to make TruePlace the fully interactive environment that we want :D!!! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 9, 2007, 8:55am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Thanks, 3DVD, for the info and the extra suggestions. Reading some of your suggestions it sounds more like you want TruePlace to be an interactive environment like a game. TagAlong pets, Carry and Drop. Light houses, rivers, chasms... I want all this too! YES!!!! GIVE ME THEM!!! LOL!! But my only concern is can TruePlace handle them? It would be FANTASTIC if it can, but I have my doubts.
Remember the wonderful mushroom village? Well, I remember my first few times in there, I asked someone was it possible to open the doors of the huts so we could go inside looking for eggs? But it wasn't. As much as I want all the stuff in this thread, I don't think TruePlace is equipped enough to handle them. I think for these we really need to move towards a gaming engine. But you never know... Perhaps we've sparked a mountain of ideas with Caligari and Roman is now demanding his staff to make TruePlace the fully interactive environment that we want :D!!!
You're welcome Paul,
Yeah, the issue of whether or not "truePlace can handle them" is definitely going to be a "sometimes" issue, but that depends upon a great many factors, and some may well end up being beyond our control. Until we reach our limits though, there's only one way to truly discover them.
One thing is for sure in all this, the fact that we all (Caligari as well as all of us) need to be pushing the envelope on what is possible with this technology before the fact that Caligari's 3D modeling competitors DON'T have anything like this yet suddenly becomes a thing of the past.
Two common expressions come to mind here in this regard... "When you have it flaunt it," and "Strike while the iron's hot.";)
Caligari is ~WAY~ out front in this regard at the moment, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that we all still need to genuinely develop this stuff to the max together and fast if we want to get on top of it, let alone stay on top of it, given the nature these days of high-tech competition combined with the break-neck speed of technological advance.
As for my part in this, I can model but I'm useless so far when it comes to Scripting, and my imagination has always been my strong suit. So I figure that if ideas are what I can easily and quickly bring to the table in this, then ideas are what I'll start piling on that table. If that helps somebody else develop the next great scripted thing for Caligari, truePlay, and each of us here in the trueSpace Community, then I'll have done my part at least.
As for the Mushroom Villiage doors that wouldn't open, that's just the nature of that scene not a limitation of the server potential, and Caligari does already have doors which open as you approach them in truePlaces at "The Labs" scene there. Still, I know what you're saying without saying it directly I think... that if the existing truePlaces are any indication of the MAX which we can expect for realtime interaction via truePlay we may as well look for the next big thing instead.... but I truly believe that what CAN be done in truePlaces is WAY better than what HAS been done so far, and toward that end I've been pushing the envelope as best I can... but perhaps this thread may help others here soon to push that envelope much farther.
Toward that end, I hope lots of folk pop some cool scripting ideas in here, it'll be a great resource for the Scripting Artists if they do, and it's the Scripters who will be bringing us all to the next level and beyond with immersive space development for sure.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 9, 2007, 10:39pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Here's another batch to consider...
018) "Garage Door" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all (Angle Variation of Délé's Door Switches)
Just like it sounds, activated by proximity of any object or Avatar.
019) "Auto-Retractable Venetian Blinds" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all (Mod of Délé's Doors)
Click a wall toggle switch and Patio Door / Window Blinds close or retract.
020) "Virtual Fireplace" -
I'm thinking here of those devices in real life where split and cut cordwood is nailed to a frame with a motor and rotating (burning ember-looking) cylinder within that frame (with lightbulbs inside that) which casts beams of alternating light and shadow through the openings of the outer cordwood resembling a typical woodfire when placed within a fireplace.
021) "Internet Radio" -
If possible, the real deal hooked up via script to a component radio mesh object. This device would have to be scripted to deactivate when the scene is empty of Avatars if not already having been turned off.
If a device like this existed now in the "Living Room" truePlace that room would nearly always have visitors and meetings. Maybe it can't be done?:confused:
022) "Christmas Tree" -
Maybe with a good scripted one more folks would build immersive scenes at that time of year to use it in (and share them), at least it's worth a try.
023) "Mice!!!" -
A mouse mesh scripted to hang out under furniture and dash along the floor occasionally between all the furniture items in the scene.
If you make one of these let's hope no one scales it very large online.:D
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More to follow soon.....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 9, 2007, 10:58pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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024) "Map Transport" -
The thought of being chased by huge mice online (see #023 above) just gave rise to something that would be very nice to have in any large Immersive environment... a Map Transport device.
User presses a hotkey which activates the script. Script reads a "coordinates presets" file appropriate to that given scene and loads a simple texture map of that scene into a popup window. The map has "dots" on it representing a few preset coordinate points within that scene. Avatar left-clicks on a dot and is transported to that location within that scene.
Very handy when Giant Mice are after you....
More to follow....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 11, 2007, 11:57pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Just one for today, I'll be adding more daily though pretty much.
If anybody else here would like to contribute their own suggestions for immersive space scripting consideration by the Scriptors here, by all means go for it, just try to be as clear and detailed about the specific functions as you can be, assuming those functions aren't obvious or commonly known, as they are in the case below for instance.
Feel free to completely disregard my numbering system here too, that only applies to my suggestions since there are and will be so many, just so I can keep my own suggestions straight and avoid duplication.
Thanks,
Here's number 25 then:
025) "Subway Doors" - UPDATE: This has now been accomplished for us all
As interactivity is increasingly introduced in the months ahead into Caligari's "truePlaces" as well as additional "trueServe-hosted" private and Commercial multi-user online virtual environments, it is only a matter of time before subways, trains, and monorails will be introduced into such immersive scenes, with their first likely appearance being within Commercial "touring" environments.
For many of us, modeling these subways, trains, and monorails, as well as all the related modeling tasks each entails will be the easy part in such endeavors. On the other hand, scripting the logic and timing of their automatic doors as well as the vehicle paths and additional related behaviors (crossing gates, station stops, speed management, etcetera) will undoubtedly be the more difficult aspects of enabling and establishing such transport effectively within multi-user shared spaces.
Given that the typical behavior of subway doors is quite similar to that of several other non-vehicular types of doors (ie: elevator doors, spacecraft doors, flood control gates, etc.), the type of script necessary to enable automatic door behavior on subways would also be a valuable asset for the development of many additional and similarly desireable types of shared space interactivity applications.
Employing Caligari's "Metaphor" philosophy momentarily in relation to this; such a script, being itself a "prototype" script, would serve as an excellent recyclable code component in the creation of numerous additional "delegate" scripts, each with the similarly inherent capacity to provide behaviors within immersive scenes so very akin to those of their real world counterparts as to establish one's subliminal perception of comfort within virtual environments utilizing them, helping secure one's sense of immersion within them.
More to follow soon....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Aug 12, 2007, 12:44pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I finally figured out how to use the distance trigger to activate scripts and timers. So there are some door objects that I made in the garage at the link below. There is also a video to show how to use them.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=44168#post44168 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 12, 2007, 7:33pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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I finally figured out how to use the distance trigger to activate scripts and timers. So there are some door objects that I made in the garage at the link below. There is also a video to show how to use them.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=44168#post44168
Wow.
I don't know how to thank you for this Délé. Honestly.
Earlier this evening I downloaded your video, watched it 5 times already, checked out the "mini-tut" thread (and will invest more time in that as well for sure) and downloaded your active doors objects.
I'm just blown away by the quality and comprehensiveness of all this.
You've done an absolutely SUPERB job on making that video, it's very clear, easy to comprehend, doesn't skip over ~anything~ via typical tutorial assumptions, is extremely comprehensive while not being overwhelming to newbies like me... and then there's the actual interactive accomplishments which they disclose... you've created something truly VITAL here to the development of elegantly interactive and deeply immersive FPN scenes, it's a genuine "milestone" for us all in that regard alone and an outstanding foundational reference for us all to build upon together as this community begins to develop shared space together.
Thank you Délé,
I deeply appreciate what you have done here with all of this and I'm certain it will be a constantly used source of vital reference for us all in the months ahead.
(And for anyone else reading this... grab that video and see for yourself!!!)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 13, 2007, 1:48am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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An excellent thread! Thought provoking and exciting. Pauls suggestion of transportation got me thinking - I'd like to see a magic carpet or some sort of flyable machine that would extend FPN into the air. Even something that approximated the famous Star Wars podrace sequence where there is a specified circuit where FPN physics are much faster and more responsive.
I've not thought these ideas through at all - I'm just thinking aloud really...... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 4:39am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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An excellent thread! Thought provoking and exciting. Pauls suggestion of transportation got me thinking - I'd like to see a magic carpet or some sort of flyable machine that would extend FPN into the air. Even something that approximated the famous Star Wars podrace sequence where there is a specified circuit where FPN physics are much faster and more responsive.
I've not thought these ideas through at all - I'm just thinking aloud really......
Hi W!ZARD!
Great to see you back! Isn't this a blast?!?!
Yeah Paul does have some great ideas for sure! I like yours too alot! (More on that below)
Délé just knocked my socks off here with his GREAT contribution to all this "Immersive Space Development" stuff! That ~excellent~ video he made showing us all (even absolute LE newbie's like me!) how to create and completely control every aspect of our own automatic doors (4 different types!) in our own immersive scenes is an absolute GEM of reference for all of us making scenes for truePlay exploration!!!
Now we can easily modify our own scenes to include these great features in them, and Délé even carefully shows us exactly how to in his video step by step! Fantastic development!
This very welcome development of Délé's also comes at a time when several other great developments in this same "immersive scenes development" realm are converging here too...
Frootee has created a new thread here with the first of several ~extremely basic~ (and that's exactly what we all really need at this point) Powerpoint Tutorials (he even includes the viewer!) introducing newbies like me into the elementary basics of Scripting and (the dreaded) LE!!!
I see Jayr here in the forums has started a new "1st Immersive Environments Competition" today which is another GREAT way for folks to get their feet wet for the first time in making their own interactive truePlay scenes, and it gives us all yet another chance to help each other in the fun of learning and applying all these great features together!
You mentioned it first in another thread here recently and I completely concur, we DEFINITELY are seeing a sudden spark of interest and community participation in these specific areas now inspired by several recent developments such as your own "plunge" into creating immersive scenes for truePlay use. It is a very exciting development indeed, and I honestly believe it will draw this Community much closer together as we all proceed together down this very exciting and promising path.
Now... regarding that "flying carpet"....:D
I was playing a while back with yet another of Délé's great interactivity scripts in the "Open Elevator Project" thread in the "Interactive Artwork" area of the forums here. Délé had created and uploaded for us all there a scene with a plane on the floor (actually two planes) which you place in your trueSpace Workspace and go to FPN to step onto. While there, you open a Link Editor window, and hit the "Start" button (if memory serves me) on the scripted activity you will see which Délé devised to animate that scene in realtime along with Physics. What happens when you do, is that you are raised by the plane you are standing on up into the air and THROUGH another plane, and then when that moving plane descends again your Avatar is deposited on top of that upper level plane. Thus it serves as a simple elevator to transport you to upper floors if you will.
When I did that it hit me.... we should be able to create a path in 3D Space for that plane you ride on in a similar fashion... thus creating a "Flying Carpet" object which adheres to that predefined path when operated in FPN or truePlay by an Avatar.
I ran that idea past ProfessorKhaos since he is currently working on several additional and GREAT immersive spaces development scripts as well which employ a scripting method to read external data files from within trueSpace to create input data streams for activating path behaviors of objects within the LE.
Long story short, I asked him whether his script for external input data streams could potentially be utilized by the "Flying Carpet" script idea I was considering at that time in order to create path behavior and conformity for such a flying carpet by having the stream feed into the World Coordinates Matrix of that carpet object... his answer was "yes.":D :D :D
It won't be long now then before we do in fact have a "Flying Carpet" object for truePlay and FPN use, one we can all create paths for and have our Avatar visitors in our truePlay scenes (including ourselves of course) use them to fly all over the place and from floor to floor and beyond.:D
As for your other idea that's VERY interesting too...
Even something that approximated the famous Star Wars podrace sequence where there is a specified circuit where FPN physics are much faster and more responsive.I don't know enough about all this yet to be able to answer that but it definitely sounds like an excellent idea and I can think of several uses for such an isolated physics environment too. Hopefully one of the Devs may be able to tell us here.
Exciting Days these... aren't they?
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 4:59am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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There is one additional and truly MOMENTOUS development in this genre which everybody here should familiarize themselves with... SteveBe's "WavePool" and "WavePool2" in his "Torus Knot" thread...
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3676 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3676)
SteveBe created several GREAT new scripted objects in that thread of his here recently which will all have an impact on us very soon in shared space and immersive scene development.
His WavePool objects actually use displacement and animated textures in realtime within trueSpace Workspace, and therefore can be used "as is" within truePlay to have ACTUAL surface waves (among it's uses;) ) and be readily modified by any of us within our own immersive scenes created for truePlay exploration.
The generosity, talent, and creativity of the trueSpace Scriptors in this Community never ceases to amaze me.:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 14, 2007, 3:39am
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3dvisuals dude
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UPDATE:
EXTREMELY good late-breaking immersive scenes development news folks!!!
Collision Bypass and Gravity Bypass have now been effectively accomplished!!!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
This has SO MANY implications for immersive scene development that I can't even begin to list them... AMAZING things will be possible now in our own realtime workspaces as well as our immersive truePlay scenes intended for CD use or online multi-user shared spaces.
This was THE only stumbling block to finishing MANY intended projects I have in mind, and will enable me now to complete the "Open Elevator Project" here at the forums too so we can all have working elevators in our realtime scenes now!!!
BIG things are developing now here...:D
Thank Frootee for making this happen folks, I had an idea but he had the skills to make that idea a reality for all of us!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 14, 2007, 5:10am
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3dvisuals dude
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OK, I figure it's not really fair of me to know what collision bypass and gravity bypass scripting will enable us all to do and for me not to give you at least a glimpse of what it will mean to us all soon... so here's a little look into exactly why it's such a huge accomplishment for immersive and interactive scene development.
In order for many of the more sophisticated capabilities already present in a handful of well known "virtual world" environments to be brought to our own shared space and truePlay scenes it was necessary for this milestone to be accomplished.
You see, if we ever want to have certain extremely exciting "Avatar Activities" in our scenes involving rapid motion, winding motion, flying, or any other activity which would previously have caused the inherent Collision Detection and Gravity Settings of a truePlay, trueSpace, or trueServe FPN environment to present obstacles to that potential (ie: avatars shaking due to collision with moving scene elements where such movement should be smooth, avatars falling from heights due to lack of centrifugal force when in vehicles designed to travel sometimes upside down, and many other examples) before any of these desired activities could be accomplished this method of collision bypass and gravity bypass first had to be accomplished.
Now that it has, however, here's just a few of the hundreds of possibilities this milestone will now enable us each to achieve in our own interactive scenes:
Avatars will now be able to:
1) Ride in Rollercoasters without being thrown out.
2) Ride in Aeroplanes (with scripted flight paths).
3) Ride Bobsleds and Toboggans (I'm especially fond of that idea...)
4) Ride in Elevators Smoothly
5) Ride on Flying Carpets (with scripted flight paths)
6) Go Skydiving
7) Ride Surfboards (very complex but do-able)
8) Ride Skateboards
9) Go Water Skiing
10) Use Kyaks and Canoes on rivers with "whitewater" displacement waves
11) Get the idea?
12) Still planning to NOT attend next Tuesday's meeting?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3868 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3868)
13) I'll see you there.:D
More to follow....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Aug 14, 2007, 9:33am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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That's great! :) I'll have to hound Froo for the secret.
I'll upload some more scripts tonight or tomorrow. I decided to make a group of similar scripts instead of just one so it's taking a tad longer. The scripts I'm making should work fantastically with this new breakthrough. :) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 14, 2007, 9:11pm
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3dvisuals dude
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That's great! :) I'll have to hound Froo for the secret.
Ah yes... "the secret" (Shhhhhhhhhh!;))
It's kind of funny really, that whole story, but as you already know from my "Open Elevator Project" thread a while back I've had a very specific goal of overcoming Collision and Gravity for some time now as I posted back there:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=38239&postcount=1 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=38239&postcount=1)
where I said:
The only real obstacle with the elevator is also an obstacle that needs to be addressed for more elaborate uses in the near future where it will be much more of an issue I think (like in the case of Avatars traveling fast over winding paths in vehicles of various kinds), and that is Collision Detection Bypass. In an elevator a smooth ride is good but not critical to moving an Avatar or two, but start putting them in Monorails and Airplanes and it's a whole different ballgame.
I do believe it can be done one way or another so I plan to focus specifically on that and set out directly to accomplish it first... the rest is just bells and whistles by comparison I suspect. Even if I fail to do it I'll be making progress at least, but I just have a gut feeling I'll accomplish this and I've learned to pay closer attention to those feelings over the years
;)
But I did in fact solve all the related conceptual methodology just a few days later in my last post to that thread here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=38741&postcount=1 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=38741&postcount=1)
where I said:
Re: Open Elevator Project
"Relational Object Collision Bypass"
Update:
Success! So far, however, only in sound and directly applicable theory, now comes the scripting! This is a milestone though for a "newbie" groping in the dark with all this, and it will have an impact on many things for all of us very soon.
I have discovered a perfect way to pass Avatar vertical altitude control to the elevator, bypassing vertical collision detection entirely.
The Avatars will never shake or jerk around in motion again even slightly now while within the elevator cab (formerly due to gravity and collision detection), and they will be free to simultaneously move and turn laterally as always.
(They will not be able to jump while inside the elevator however! )
Avatars will now be able to lift and lower as precisely and smoothly as the elevator cab itself does without any vertical collision whatsoever ocurring between the Avatars and the elevator.
-- snip --
For someone brilliant or far more experienced this may have only taken moments to figure out, but as a "newbie" this took me days of study to conquer and I haven't even begun to "wire" it all yet... but IT WILL work.
So expect another week of me fumbling with wires and script, maybe less.
- 3dvisuals dude
(PS: Yes, this will be modifiable for use in flight and rapid winding travel! )
But weeks then passed without a FREE and basic LE and Scripting tutorial for me to use so that I could just hook the whole concept up... so.... then I mentioned it to you just the other day in your LE Mini Tut thread here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=44294&postcount=1 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=44294&postcount=1)
where I said:
When you expand a matrix input as you did in your first example in this thread the control of the second "owned" object overrides the workspace widget as you indicated.
Ok... what happens then in a case of the owner object and the owned object moving parallel in a given direction freely under constant velocity, but the owned object running parallel to it encounters an obstacle in that path which the owner object does not? Ie: does it override collision or gravity as well?
Also as a side note, this script you wrote above is almost identical to the method I whipped up in my head a while ago (not that I know yet how to do it in the LE though) to control avatars in elevators by utilizing the elevator as the owner object in an animation and the avatar as the owned object, thus bypassing gravity altogether by maintaining the vertical relationship of the avatar in relation only to the elevator cab's vertical position.
In addition to that, that same collision bypass concept / method is the basis, once combined with ProfessorKhaos's External Data File Reader Script (not sure of exact name of that script), for feeding externally defined paths to objects via stream input, enabling goodies like "flying carpets" in shared space which could actually work.
I love this stuff...
But alas.... our friend Frootee was quick on the draw and figured out what I was actually intending to do, so he just put it all together for me and sent it to me as a surprise gift before you and I could just hook it up ourselves!!!!!:D
Hahahahaha!:cool:
It seems Frootee "beat us both to the punch" on this one! :p
I suspect as we all work together in this stuff now we'll be seeing that happen to each other a lot, so I have no doubt it will happen to me soon one day as well, once I have even ~A CLUE~ what I'm doing in the LE that is!!!:o
I'll upload some more scripts tonight or tomorrow. I decided to make a group of similar scripts instead of just one so it's taking a tad longer. The scripts I'm making should work fantastically with this new breakthrough. :)
OUTSTANDING!!!!! Thank you!
YES... this simple new "breakthrough" is going to enable a whole ton of fun things for us all now, I'm especially excited to imagine what you will be doing with it myself, it will turn all kinds of "yesterday's unlikely things" into "tomorrow's definite things" for us all!:D
Man this is fun....:banana:
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Aug 15, 2007, 2:59am
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Délé
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Actually, when you were talking about locking the avatar to the elevator that's the first thing I thought of. When you take control of a matrix, it will override physics and such. The real trick is figuring out how to point to the avatars matrix in the first place so you can lock it to the elevator. That's going to be the hard part to figure out as there are no real examples to work from.
The distance trigger that the devs have in the library can somehow check if any avatar is near. Calculating distances between two objects is easy to do, but I don't understand how they can check if any random avatar is near. That is what would be needed to do what you are talking about. You would have to check which avatar set off the trigger, and then take control of it. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:32am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Actually, when you were talking about locking the avatar to the elevator that's the first thing I thought of. When you take control of a matrix, it will override physics and such. The real trick is figuring out how to point to the avatars matrix in the first place so you can lock it to the elevator. That's going to be the hard part to figure out as there are no real examples to work from.
The distance trigger that the devs have in the library can somehow check if any avatar is near. Calculating distances between two objects is easy to do, but I don't understand how they can check if any random avatar is near. That is what would be needed to do what you are talking about. You would have to check which avatar set off the trigger, and then take control of it.
Yeah... I found this out this morning! Hahahaha!
No sweat though... we will manage this I'm certain of that.
The GATE device in active scenes (or active activities?) library for instance utilizes a proximity device in relation to spheres, so we can do this, we just need to isolate the correct object to control in a slave fashion from the avatar objects available.
That's what we get for using a proof of concept which wasn't an actual avatar! Hahaha! We'll find a way though, or make one actually.:D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 15, 2007, 5:19am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Actually, when you were talking about locking the avatar to the elevator that's the first thing I thought of. When you take control of a matrix, it will override physics and such. The real trick is figuring out how to point to the avatars matrix in the first place so you can lock it to the elevator. That's going to be the hard part to figure out as there are no real examples to work from.
The distance trigger that the devs have in the library can somehow check if any avatar is near. Calculating distances between two objects is easy to do, but I don't understand how they can check if any random avatar is near. That is what would be needed to do what you are talking about. You would have to check which avatar set off the trigger, and then take control of it.
Maybe these would help:
RsTool.GetAvatarsEnumerator()
AvatarsMatrix = Avatars.GetAvatarMatrix()
:rolleyes: |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 5:21am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Maybe these would help:
RsTool.GetAvatarsEnumerator()
AvatarsMatrix = Avatars.GetAvatarMatrix()
:rolleyes:
EXCELLENT.:D
Thank you trueBlue!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Délé // Aug 15, 2007, 5:30am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Nice, thanks trueBlue! :) I'll play around with those and see if I can get it to work. Where did you find those? |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 15, 2007, 5:35am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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In the Laboratory :o |
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