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1st Immersive Environments Competition
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1st Immersive Environments Competition // Roundtable
Post by jayr // Aug 13, 2007, 2:19am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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OK, time to get this off the ground! Here a few rules:
1: There will be no scene size limit, just try to keep it low poly if you can.
2:The room you create can be for any purpose but you must state what you are trying to achive i.e. an online gallery or meeting place.
3: You must include screenshots of your space in your entry post along with the final scene
4: A four week deadline ending monday 3rd of september at midnight.
5. The invitation is open to everyone (i've never tried anything like this so feel free to have a go as well of you haven't)
There i think thats it for rules, Lets Go! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 5:22am
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3dvisuals dude
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Awesome Jayr!
4 weeks is LOADS of time for people to try this for the first time, great idea!
As I said earlier too, If anyone who enters this just asks I'll be happy to help them as much as I possibly can to develop their own entries too.
I'm sure everybody entering this will get PLENTY of help from everybody else here in the forums too so this will be a great learning experience and a lot of fun for everyone!
Great idea!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 13, 2007, 5:44am
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Jack Edwards
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Anyone have links to steps to create a trueplay environment from a TS scene?
-Jack. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 6:06am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Anyone have links to steps to create a trueplay environment from a TS scene?
-Jack.
Hi Jack,
I went hunting for those links here this weekend but didn't find any. As for the steps it's really very basic though. All one needs to do is add an "entry point camera" (the human torso icon in trueSpace 7.5x) to the scene when you are ready to share it with others for truePlay1.3 use (although that isn't mandatory at all for offline use), and then when they load that scene into truePlay 1.3 via the dropdown menu they will arrive in that scene oriented in exactly the same spot and manner as the "entry point camera" object you placed in that scene previously.
It's also important to walk around in the scene yourself via the FPN (First Person Navigation) feature in trueSpace 7.5x (or have someone here do that for you if you have an earlier version of trueSpace) in order to be sure your door sizes and step heights are suitable for Avatar navigation, the rest is a piece of cake!
The scene should be saved in either trueSpace 7.xx "RsScn" format ot trueSpace 7.xx "rcd" format. There will be people here including myself providing related conversion services to entrants with earlier versions of trueSpace as well.
That's really all there is to it for the basics of having a scene ready for truePlay navigation, but of course if the scene is designed with the intent of placing it online as opposed to sharing it here or via CD, one must give consideration then to overall filesize, otherwise the filesize is largely irrelevant as long as one can navigate within it smoothly with truePlay.
There is a new and outstanding video here created by Délé which will give entrants here a very basic and clear step-by-step look into how to create interactive doors in their scenes for instance, and he also provided excellent working examples of four different types of those interactive doors for each of us to experiment with and modify for exactly this type of use. These same skills one may readily aquire via this video are also transferrable to developing similar "non-door" related interactivity in one's scenes as well.
It's all very simple really.
I do hope you are planning to enter this, I'd love to see what you would do with all this yourself!:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by frootee // Aug 13, 2007, 6:20am
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frootee
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sounds like a pre-7.5 to 7.5 file format converter script/plugin is in order here then, so users of 6.6 or earlier can also easily create their own trueplay scenes.
Froo |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 6:36am
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3dvisuals dude
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sounds like a pre-7.5 to 7.5 file format converter script/plugin is in order here then, so users of 6.6 or earlier can also easily create their own trueplay scenes.
Froo
Nah... let's do it manually for them.... that way they'll have to upgrade to the AWESOME capabilities they really do need and SHOULD have.
Puts the pressure on to upgrade, and although I can seriously relate to having a VERY tight budget, trueSpace 7.51 should be on everybody's budget now if they don't have it already.
In the meantime, I'll help them with conversions for their entry's here as will others no doubt.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 14, 2007, 1:41am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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OK, time to get this off the ground! Here a few rules:
1: There will be no scene size limit, just try to keep it low poly if you can.
2:The room you create can be for any purpose but you must state what you are trying to achive i.e. an online gallery or meeting place.
3: You must include screenshots of your space in your entry post along with the final scene
4: A four week deadline ending monday 3rd of september at midnight.
5. The invitation is open to everyone (i've never tried anything like this so feel free to have a go as well of you haven't)
There i think thats it for rules, Lets Go!
So Jayr.....
I'm dyin' to see what you're going to be doing yourself for an entry in this after seeing the awesome job you did on "Gothic" at your website:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/Gothic.html (http://www.lothissen.co.uk/Gothic.html)
It's amazing how much realism you can create in lowpoly with the right lighting and textures.
Fantastic work indeed.
What do you have in mind for this contest now?
Also, did you see Frootee's WIP yet?
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Aug 14, 2007, 7:41am
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jayr
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So Jayr.....
I'm dyin' to see what you're going to be doing yourself for an entry in this after seeing the awesome job you did on "Gothic" at your website:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/Gothic.html
It's amazing how much realism you can create in lowpoly with the right lighting and textures.
Fantastic work indeed.
What do you have in mind for this contest now?
Also, did you see Frootee's WIP yet?
- 3dvisuals dude
Actually, it will be somthing like that, take a peak at this:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/kingshouse.jpg
It's really a building from my 'Lothissen' project but i'm hoping to combine the two (and save myself a headache) and use a version of it for this too. |
Post by frootee // Aug 14, 2007, 7:43am
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frootee
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Is there a thread created yet for the submissions jayr?
Froo |
Post by jayr // Aug 14, 2007, 7:45am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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i was planning to sue this one for it but just realized i posted a wip in here :(
oops!
I'll start on now :o |
Post by frootee // Aug 14, 2007, 7:47am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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thanks jayr. Looks like the competition is heating up!
Froo |
Post by jayr // Aug 14, 2007, 7:48am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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yeah, your sumission looks really good, it's great to see different peoples take the same idea |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 12:57am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hi guys, I haven't had much to do with truePlay yet so I don't know the limitations, so can somebody tell me if for instance you can have things like steps or ladders for vertical travel?
Reason I ask is because my current scenes is a Cliff Hanger Colony which is a hanging village built agaisnt a cliff with wood and rope...
If truePlay can't then I need to change my scene and buld ramps for visitors to get to higher levels... |
Post by Délé // Aug 15, 2007, 3:06am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Hi guys, I haven't had much to do with truePlay yet so I don't know the limitations, so can somebody tell me if for instance you can have things like steps or ladders for vertical travel?
Reason I ask is because my current scenes is a Cliff Hanger Colony which is a hanging village built agaisnt a cliff with wood and rope...
If truePlay can't then I need to change my scene and buld ramps for visitors to get to higher levels...
No ladders yet, but steps are fine. You just have to make sure they're set small enough for the avatars to walk up. You can also create procedurally animated lifts that will carry the avatars up. I will post some triggers today that will help create such things. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:17am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi guys, I haven't had much to do with truePlay yet so I don't know the limitations, so can somebody tell me if for instance you can have things like steps or ladders for vertical travel?
Reason I ask is because my current scenes is a Cliff Hanger Colony which is a hanging village built agaisnt a cliff with wood and rope...
If truePlay can't then I need to change my scene and buld ramps for visitors to get to higher levels...
Hi Theuns,
at the moment we are working on developing elevators for this purpose but there are several minor issues involved in that development which could prevent a complex elevator from being produced for another couple of weeks for us all to use.
In the meantime there is a working simple elevator which Délé designed and uploaded for us all here a while back which can indeed be used now for direct vertical ascent, but in it's current form it does not provide descent capability. It is a realtime physics animation of a plane which rises from the floor carrying anything on it up to a higher plane in the scene but does so by actually having the carried object pass right through the upper plane's underside (negative normals / no collision) and deposits the carried object on the topside of that plane (positive normals / collision enabled) before it descends without the object back to the starting point and keeps on looping.
So, to answer that question.... soon yes, but perhaps not in time for the conclusion of this first competition, so you will have to employ ramps in the meantime probably and that raises yet another issue due to the extremely steep nature of your specific "cliff hanger colony" scenes... ie: will the avatars slide down the ramp due to physics instead of climb it, and the answer to that one is a definite "maybe." It has to actually be tested on a per scene basis in TS7.xx or truePlay1.3 to determine that.
I have made stairs myself which looked great and did not work in practice, and I have also made ramps which similarly failed due to steepness and physics. I've made Spiral ramps which worked but were a real pain to navigate via Avatar in practice as well. So again, a definite "maybe" at the moment.
My recommendation in your specific case if you are entering the Cliff Hanger Colony scene or one similar, is that you create ramps inside the mountain where your cliff is which are not very steep and continue a good distance before they arrive at a platform, turn, and do it again.
Or, and this would be a lot less of a shot in the dark, send me (just) the mountain (and indicate exactly where levels need to be vertically in relation to it's height) and I'll make some ramps for you which will work in trueSpace 7.51 and truePlay 1.3, and send it back to you.
In most cases ramps are no big deal to design for truePlay use, but in your specific case here they would be climbing a mountain, not a normal scene.
I can do this for you though, it's no big deal on my end at all.:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 3:18am
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theuns
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kewl Délé ... steps would be great but lifts even better, my scene have a lot of rope lifts and cable-car like conveyance... please let us know how this is done, although I wont be doing it myself since i have ts5.1... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:26am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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No ladders yet, but steps are fine. You just have to make sure they're set small enough for the avatars to walk up. You can also create procedurally animated lifts that will carry the avatars up. I will post some triggers today that will help create such things.
Thanks Délé, I guess you responded as I was 2-finger typing!
That's good news. Mountains are something I wasn't thinking about for this competition but obviously should have been!:o
Hopefully we'll have the other elevator issues ironed out soon too and I expect we will, but I don't want to promise that in the midst of a competition which could require it!
Cool... I'll be looking forward to your new triggers too!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:27am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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kewl Délé ... steps would be great but lifts even better, my scene have a lot of rope lifts and cable-car like conveyance... please let us know how this is done, although I wont be doing it myself since i have ts5.1...
Hang in there Theuns, we'll find a way for you!;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 3:31am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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hi dude :) posted the other reply before seeing yours... :)
i understand the complexities better now...
can you tell me what the steps restrictions are... i have some steps and hang bridges as well
if you look at the small attachement pic... on the right lower corner is a horizontal car platform... near the center is a stair case to the upper level and behind the stairs is a little rope bridge between two platforms ... will this work?
another question, is there a specific scale that avatars are? to make sure they don't look like giants or dwarfs in the scene... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:42am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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hi dude :) posted the other reply before seeing yours... :)
i understand the complexities better now...
can you tell me what the steps restrictions are... i have some steps and hang bridges as well
if you look at the small attachement pic... on the right lower corner is a horizontal car platform... near the center is a stair case to the upper level and behind the stairs is a little rope bridge between two platforms ... will this work?
another question, is there a specific scale that avatars are? to make sure they don't look like giants or dwarfs in the scene...
The scene above looks do-able as is on the steps issue, but we will test that for you of course in FPN (First Person Navigation mode of trueSpace7.xx where you actually become an avatar inside your Workspace scene in realtime similar to truePlay1.3) to be certain.
The rope bridge appears to present no problems at all.
We will post an Avatar Dummy in this thread tonight or tomorrow which is pre-scaled to the dimensions of an actual truePlay Avatar. You will all then be able to use it for determining door openings, ramp widths, etcetera.
Excellent thought by the way, thanks for that!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 3:50am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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excellent, thanks d :) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 3:51am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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excellent, thanks d :)
My pleasure Theuns, we're all in this together!:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Aug 15, 2007, 3:55am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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that scene looks great theuns, can't wait for the final submission. Don't forget there is a thread for the final scenes:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3875 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 4:12am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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This issue of truePlay1.3 step height limits and ramp angle limits is an important one for all of us, so when I have a chance I'll be uploading a zipfile here containing OBJ Format simple models of each, demonstrating the MAXIMUM usable step height and the MAXIMUM usable ramp angle for all of us to use as a template in our immersive scene development projects.
As mentioned above we will also be uploading an Avatar Dummy in this thread which is pre-scaled to the height and width of an actual truePlay 1.3 / Caligari Shared Space Avatar, for similar use as a template in determining door dimensions, ramp widths, etcetera.
Great thread.... going places quickly.:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 15, 2007, 2:27pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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A quick note:
All you folks already entering the competition or just thinking about creating your own interactive scenes for truePlay1.3 should try to set aside the time and use truePlay1.3 or trueSpace7.51 to attend this coming Tuesday night "Script Hookup" meeting.
Here's the information link:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3868
This will give all of us an opportunity to learn the BASICS of making our own scenes genuinely interactive for use with truePlay1.3, and there's no better way to learn this stuff than to do so together!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 17, 2007, 1:59am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Update:
An "Avatar Dummy" is attached to this post.
Note: This Avatar Dummy is not yet scaled to actual truePlace / truePlay proportions and will be replaced by one which is (in this same post) within a day or two.
The dimensions it must scale to, however, are as follows:
height - 1.8
radius - .300
and physics weight (for TS7.xx users) 80.00
If you keep that same height to radius relationship with your Avatar you will be fine. As I said above though, an accurate Avatar Dummy will replace the one above in a couple of days max.
IMPORTANT NOTE: The real Avatars in truePlay sort of "hover" above the floor, and as such do not trip easily.
On Max Step Heights and Max Ramp Angles it's like this:
.5 units max step height
30 degree max stable angle
An upload of example models for these two are also coming soon here.;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 17, 2007, 2:14am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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that scene looks great theuns, can't wait for the final submission. Don't forget there is a thread for the final scenes:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3875
yeah, i saw that, but mine is still WIP so i haven't posted there yet... i should probably rename my thread to 1st Immersrive... |
Post by theuns // Aug 17, 2007, 2:26am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hey 3D ...
Just want to check the step height value... is it definately .5 ??? because that means it is about 1/3 of the total avatar height of 1.8... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 17, 2007, 2:32am
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3dvisuals dude
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Hey 3D ...
Just want to check the step height value... is it definately .5 ??? because that means it is about 1/3 of the total avatar height of 1.8...
I just confirmed that to be sure in both TS7.51 "First Person Properties" and it's equivalent in actual Caligari Shared Space. Yes, they are correct.:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 17, 2007, 8:54pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I don't want to complicate matters but in both tS and tP the FPN parameters are all easily edited. The numbers provided by Mark (3dvd) are the default gvalues but all can be changed in the LE and in the dialogue box in tP which opens when you click the FPN icon.
Re the steps size, it's also easy for you FPN viewpoint to jump (again the height of the jump is editable) allowing for greater variety in step heights and so on.
The Caligari guys have done a really top-notch job of making everything as customisable and flexible as possible.
Hope this helps |
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