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A decade in the making..
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
A decade in the making.. // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Sep 13, 2007, 7:53am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Sorry to hear that Simon (about the family that is), as a husband and father of two I know how any disruption to the balance of family life can throw your plans in the air. Please excuse my regular 'prods' I am just very excited about trying out a new renderer, but family must always come first...:D
Still, gives me something to look forward to this weekend. Hope your wife and child get well soon. |
Post by jayr // Sep 13, 2007, 7:56am
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jayr
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yeah, look after your family and take your time! were not that desperate for a new toy. |
Post by auragreg // Sep 13, 2007, 8:16am
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auragreg
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The pics earlier look awesome. Nice to hear that they are fast too ... I like the true DOF.
will it be able to render animations? |
Post by opiejuan // Sep 13, 2007, 11:37am
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Simon, SOME of us have waited for this for almost all of those 11+ years...a bit longer won't kill us. hahaha
Looks like you have put in a lot of work and I'm looking forward to checking it out..soon!
Tell Mrs. W I said hey and I hope she isn't damaged too badly and recovers quickly...and the youngun too. |
Post by mattam // Sep 14, 2007, 12:52pm
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Ouch, hope all the Windmillers feel better soon.
And like Opie, I look forward to seeing all that work come to fruition! :) |
Post by Nephos // Sep 14, 2007, 2:47pm
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What a reunion this has become :D Interest is ever mounting.... Good work Simon let's see some more examples.....
Nephos |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 15, 2007, 6:16am
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Emmanuel
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Did I said I was happy with Dribble announcement ? :D
One of the good things with the plugin approach - I mean if the plugin has its own render icon - is that it will solve a big workflow issues that comes with VRay.
I explain :
In Modeler, if you work in wireframe draw mode (the most common case) and paint an object, then trueSpace starts to render that object with the current render engine.
If VRay is set in the preferences panel, then you will have to wait for tS to send the information to WS via the Bridge and render it in Modeler. And if the scene is complex, or if you have GI on, tS will freeze until it get the object rendered or you press the Esc key ! Each time you paint an object or a face, you get that workflow stopper.
That issue forces to open the Preferences panel, and switch to Lightworks before you paint an object, and return to VRay when you want to render a the scene or a screen area.
Too many clics...
Since VRay is out, I have been asking for an icon in the toolbars that would allow for a one-clic renderer selection. This one never came.
This is why Simon's solution is interesting in an optimized workflow :
- paint an object, and tS will render it with Lightworks in seconds.
- render the scene for a quick test and Lightworks will draw it in seconds
- now clic Dribble render icon and tS will use Dribble render engine to render !
Of course, this is just workflow speculation as I didn't see Dribble in action yet. Perhaps I am completely wrong ! :p
But from what Simon told us, I think it will behave this way and it is a very good thing :) |
Post by SiW // Sep 15, 2007, 6:54am
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SiW
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Well I didn't make it yesterday, eh? Charlotte got over her sickness pretty quickly and Amy's ankle recovered just as fast, so no worries there. Thanks for the kind words.
I'm busily working away on getting it finished and stuff written up. Maybe this weekend. It's funny, as I'm documenting things I'm rediscovering features. For example, I forgot that I'm rendering NURBS surfaces directly - so you get very smooth surfaces without slowing down renders (tS tessellates to polygons before rendering with Lightworks and V-Ray)
Emmanuel - yes, that's exactly how dribble works right now. There are pros (as you list them) and cons of that - the main con being you can't yet get a real preview of the final output (then again, you can't with V-Ray really either), and that's something I'm already working on, especially for surfacing. I can't keep stressing this point enough - even though I'm still finishing up the first release, this is going to be a constantly-improving tool.
Greg - yep, animations are supported, you can go to sequential files or AVIs, just like you can rendering with tS directly. I will say that there's a lot of optimization yet to be done for animations though, so that's definitely an area I'll focus on post-1.0.
Matt and Opie.. Me releasing a plugin.. we're getting the old gang back together or what? ;) |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 15, 2007, 7:12am
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Emmanuel
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the main con being you can't yet get a real preview of the final output (then again, you can't with V-Ray really either)
This raises a question : how do you manage the material preview in the Material Editor ?
Will it display the lightworks material or is it capable of showing Dribble's ? |
Post by splinters // Sep 15, 2007, 7:37am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Since VRay is out, I have been asking for an icon in the toolbars that would allow for a one-clic renderer selection. This one never came.
This is why Simon's solution is interesting in an optimized workflow :
- paint an object, and tS will render it with Lightworks in seconds.
- render the scene for a quick test and Lightworks will draw it in seconds
- now clic Dribble render icon and tS will use Dribble render engine to render !
:)
Just for reference Emmanuel, I made a set of render icons prior to tS7.0 release. They were in that tiny toolbar and there were LW, Vray and Virtualight icons that, I believe, were meant to do exactly like you suggest.
They were scrapped and put into the stack instead.
As for a dedicated dribble icon...I realise it is not that hard for anyone to make one, but I did offer just the same for continuity...:D |
Post by splinters // Sep 15, 2007, 7:41am
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Good to hear the family is well Simon.
I am still excited but when you say that you cannot get a render preview do you mean you will not be able to do a render to screen as you can in both Vray and LW?
That worries me a bit but I am hoping I read this wrong. Quite intrigued by how this all works but I guess I can wait a bit longer. Shame I have to go to work tomorrow.
Questions and more question I see....and I thought it was pretty quiet around here today...;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 15, 2007, 8:23am
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Good to hear the family is well Simon.
I am still excited but when you say that you cannot get a render proeview do you mean you will not be able to do a render to screen as you can in both Vray and LW?
Yes good to see all is well !
My question is the same splinters has plus does the function area IIR work
in the material preview ?
Peter |
Post by spacekdet // Sep 15, 2007, 8:27am
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Matt and Opie.. Me releasing a plugin.. we're getting the old gang back together or what? ;)
What is this...Old Home Week!?
8421 |
Post by rj0 // Sep 15, 2007, 8:57am
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Matt and Opie.. Me releasing a plugin.. we're getting the old gang back together or what? ;)
It's nice to see familiar faces from 'way back'!
Simon,
Sounding (... or should I say 'looking') great! Yeh, both!
rj |
Post by SiW // Sep 15, 2007, 7:30pm
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SiW
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Yeesh, I have to get this first release done, I'm getting quite burnt out with these late nights!
You absolutely can do renders to screen. You can't do the IIR previews (neither can V-Ray I think?), but I know artists have changed workflow somewhat in recent years so it's an area I'll be looking at.
Currently the dribble material does not show in the material preview. As the translated surfaces match Lightworks pretty well I don't think this is a huge problem - but again I'm aware of the need for quick previews when surfacing and it won't be ignored. |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 15, 2007, 11:36pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Currently the dribble material does not show in the material preview. As the translated surfaces match Lightworks pretty well I don't think this is a huge problem - but again I'm aware of the need for quick previews when surfacing and it won't be ignored.
I don't see it as a big problem either.
Making the Material Editor multi-renderers compatible would probably lead to create an other Material Editor.
Huge task...
Perhaps this could be a chance to enhance its user interface though ;).
Below is the ME I always dreamed of for trueSpace. |
Post by splinters // Sep 16, 2007, 8:18am
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Nice ME Emmanuel, lets hope Roman sees it...;)
Simon, as I wait patiently for your renderer I am playing more with Vray and enjoying the results.
Aside from the displacement mapping, what reason would I have to buy your renderer (I am just playing devil's advocate here as many others may be thinking the same)
Is it a speed thing, quality of render etc? I mean if you have LW and Vray, what will you get from your renderer that will make it a must have?
I am not all that familiar with 3Delight but have installed it already.
I am not looking to criticise your work at all before it is even released but very curious what it will offer the LW and Vray owner.
Cheers |
Post by Steinie // Sep 16, 2007, 8:26am
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Adding to Splinter's question.
This is a description of 3Delight and it's capabilities. What will your Dribble allow us to use within this Rendering Application?
3Delight is a fast, high quality, RenderMan® -compliant renderer designed to produce photorealistic images in demanding production environments. The renderer was started in 1998 and rapidely became a production-ready tool thanks to immediate testing and feedback of a sister production house. It is now widely used and earning a reputation as a benchmark in rendering technology.
Some of its features include ray tracing, global illumination (including photon mapping, final gathering and high dynamic range lighting and rendering), realistic motion blur, depth of field, complete geometry support (including efficient rendering of hair and fur), programmable shaders, quality antialiasing and antialiased shadow maps. Advanced features include Ri filtering, network caching and highly customizable workflow. It is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 16, 2007, 9:05am
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Emmanuel
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Is it a speed thing, quality of render etc? I mean if you have LW and Vray, what will you get from your renderer that will make it a must have?
I can't speak for Simon, but I guess Dribble will be more reliable than VRay and will add the features we miss in LW.
At least, if you don't use tools in the SW side, this will let you configure the init.js file (it is located in tS/Scripts directory) to unload some Rosetta modules and keep only the vital organs : this will free some system memory and tS7.51 will launch faster :) |
Post by parva // Sep 16, 2007, 9:29am
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I installed 3delight some month back as quick SILO renderer (there was a nice plugin which rendered directly as AmbientOcclusion-stlye) but I must deinstall 3delight there the program has a timelimit in addition to the watermarked render (don't know if this is still the case) and the free key I got to unlock this "thing" hadn't worked.
So I emailed 3delight but no response. Not very user friendly even for a free program. I deinstalled it, there are better renderer (even free) out there which cause less trouble *g*. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 16, 2007, 9:29am
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I can't speak for Simon, but I guess Dribble will be more reliable than VRay and will add the features we miss in LW.
Well Emmanuel .... more reliable than VRAY ?? Didnt have problems with it.
It just lacks some features Vray very well has with other applications.
Well LW could be a real gem if it would be developed as fast as it should
have and is published on the lightwork pages.3 Delight is a very good renderer and I think another option is always welcome.3Delight is used in Daz studio ... so if anyone wants to try out the speed... Daz studio is free ! |
Post by nub // Sep 16, 2007, 12:44pm
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Opie and Mattam???
Sheesh, now we just need wierd Uncle GeneG to show up and it'll be like a family reunion!
What is this...Old Home Week!?
8421 |
Post by transient // Sep 16, 2007, 5:57pm
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Motion Blur, micro-displacement and render baking are worth the price of admission imo. I think the fact it works with prior versions of truespace is also a big selling point.
I own v-ray and I'm still excited about this, however I love playing with different kinds of renderers.
I also wouldn't judge it on the basis of Daz studio, as their implementation of it is extremely limited. It should also be noted that user-friendliness definitely isn't the main goal of .rib renderers, which is why I find this plug-in an awesome prospect. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 16, 2007, 6:34pm
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I also wouldn't judge it on the basis of Daz studio, as their implementation of it is extremely limited.
Did you read that little word ... "speed".Noone mentioned implemented
features !;)
Yes this will be a nice tool !
Peter |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 16, 2007, 8:02pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Well Emmanuel .... more reliable than VRAY ?? Didnt have problems with it.
VRay is just as reliable as the Bridge can be ;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 17, 2007, 12:02am
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VRay is just as reliable as the Bridge can be ;)
If you ask me if I had problems with the bridge I must say yes !
But thats not Vrays fault ! This is a big reason why so many are
dribbling over dribble ! Although I am very much in favour of the workspace side (higher poly count etc.). What I like most of all is that I can load
it into TS 6.6 !
Peter |
Post by opiejuan // Sep 17, 2007, 10:12am
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Total Posts: 120
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Matt and Opie.. Me releasing a plugin.. we're getting the old gang back together or what? ;)
(using the voice of Joe Turkel ( Lloyd the bartender in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining)) Simon, we have always been here for you. You have ALWAYS been the master coder dood.
Glad to hear Amy and children numba 2 is healing...and ... and... WAITAMINUTE!! Sam has a sister now?!? WOW! Where have I been?!? CONGRATS!!! :banana:
Your maybe not biggest but darn near close to it fan,
Opie |
Post by splinters // Sep 18, 2007, 12:53pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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It all went a bit quiet....any news or updates on this? |
Post by pixl8r // Sep 18, 2007, 5:57pm
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pixl8r
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LOL, I start reading the forum again and I see OpieJuan and mattam (and you too mick). Where's Firebrat eh?
Exellent work SiW! I looking forward to ANY of your work. |
Post by Burnart // Sep 18, 2007, 8:53pm
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I notice in the Sept. issue of 3D World the letter of the month bemoans the lack of decent RIB export for his software. TrueSpace users could be doing OK in that regard in the not too distant future.:p |
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