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XRefs in trueSpace
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
XRefs in trueSpace // Roundtable
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 10, 2007, 12:06am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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XRefs are very common in almost all AutoCAD-like softwares.
An XRef is a group of objects that can be imported and shown/rendered in a scene but not edited ; it must be edited in the scene it is from.
So, if we call A the scene showing the XRefs and B the scenes where the XRef are created, then there would be in B a button to save the scene as XRef, and in A a button to import (=load object) the XRef into a locked layer.
The goal of XRef is double :
1- allow fast and easy changes in scene A by editing the elements in scenes B
2- make scene A smaller
Who would vote for an XRef feature in trueSpace ? |
Post by transient // Sep 10, 2007, 1:49am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Max had these early on, v3 or 4 if I remember rightly. I think they're great for big, compex scenes, but I wouldn't need them. I never used them in max.
However, more options is good, and I know some people would benefit (particularly the architectural guys) so definitely a yes vote from me. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 10, 2007, 3:46am
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Steinie
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Emmanuel, That would be a great question for Caligari to send out to it's existing Customers as a Questionaire. I think a lot of the CAD users and Architects who use TS don't use the Forum so your voting might not represent the true feeling out there.
Roman should consider doing that yearly besides asking us how we feel. Send out an email to ALL TS users asking what they would like to see next.
We're just a small portion of it's users.
Were also a likeable bunch. |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 10, 2007, 4:31am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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You are right Steinie. A forum and even a beta testers assembly is not representative of what the users do need. I like Simons recent comment about this : It doesn't matter how many beta testers you use, you never really know what your customers truly need until it's in their hands.
TomG, if you read this, I think you have a good topic idea here for the next newsletter :) |
Post by Paulbo // Sep 10, 2007, 4:43am
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Paulbo
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I would definitely vote for it.
I'm very new to TS (just finished my first demo animation to show a client to convince him to spend more money with me) and we are always changing bits of his products. If I could make a single change to one object and have it replicated across many, many scenes it would be fantastic.
Also, it would be great for those scenes where (just thinking of this one customer) I have 20 or 30 copies of the same bracket - it would be great to update the texture/geometry/what-have-you once and have it all replicated throughout.
Of course, being terribly new, there may be a way to do this that I haven't figure out yet :rolleyes: |
Post by Nez // Sep 10, 2007, 5:30am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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I could see this being very useful on larger or more complex scenes, although good use of layers might cut down the need - although I don't even have layers being on TS5, but reckon I'd appreciate them!
A good instance-replace tool may also cut down the need - but don't know if newer version of TS have this or not?
But yes, I think some form of x-reffing could be handy... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 10, 2007, 6:53am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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While I'm a bit ambivalent about X-Ref files. I think object instancing inside Workspace would be VERY useful. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Sep 10, 2007, 9:42am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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If an "Xref" can be imported into a scene but not edited there (and yet be fully functional apart from edit and save features) I would very much like this Xref feature option included in trueSpace both for Commercial Projects and upcoming rentable "private" multi-user shared spaces.
This would enable Commercial Scene Developers to offer tightly-Copyright-Licensed Elements to a given Commercial scene or Host on the fly, without requiring a specific license addendum for each given element offered in this manner to a Commercial Host or Account.
It is also a fact that all of us wishing to develop scenes for use in future "private" rentable shared spaces from Caligari must first take into consideration that anyone having access to those scenes online via trueSpace (as opposed to truePlay) effectively means that all such users will be able to use and modify any Copyright objects or scenes made available to them in this open manner.
If having "Xref" capabilities at the Design stage would enable us as Designers to prevent our most sensitive objects and scenes from being editable and downloadable from such online scenes, it would encourage us all to invest in such online rentable spaces without fear of potentially related Copyright infringements.
Excellent idea, I vote "yes."
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by SiW // Sep 10, 2007, 11:34am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Sounds good to me. As mentioned, it's especially useful for the archvis/cad folks and IMO there's a bit of a hole in the market at a certain level.
If you could combine this with real instancing it'd be even better. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 10, 2007, 12:11pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Emmanuel.. that is like V-ray Proxy???
If yes, that is cool!! |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 10, 2007, 8:14pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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An XRef is a "scene into a scene".
- Basically, an XRef loaded into a new scene should get loaded into its own layer (locked of course). Just the way DXF imports are today (if you load a layered DXF file, tS creates additional layers of te DXF objects)
- I think that the option to load and reload/refresh Xrefs should take place in the tS File menu among the Load scene and Load Object commands.
Saving a scene as an XRef would proceed the same way : a Save_As_Xref command among the Save_Scene and Save_Object commands.
There is two approach for that tool :
1- implemented into trueSpace (=developped by Caligari)
or
2- implemented as a plugin (= developped by 3rd party)
Since that feature involves layers management, I would say that it should be made by Caligari... unless someone creates an alternative layers management plugin. |
Post by SiW // Sep 11, 2007, 6:00am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Why would you need to specifically save a scene/obj as an x-ref though? Wouldn't you just save regularly, then import/place/link/however you want to call it from your "host" scene? |
Post by stan // Sep 11, 2007, 6:15am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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wouldnt encapsulating a scene into one object work, except for the locking part..then you could just add the node into the new scene..
edit; just tried taking the scene node from project, saving it as an rsobj, added it to another scene that worked |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 11, 2007, 7:12am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Why would you need to specifically save a scene/obj as an x-ref though? Wouldn't you just save regularly, then import/place/link/however you want to call it from your "host" scene?
Because we could specify what is saved and what is not. Therefore, the Save_As_XRef command would have its own dialogue box.
Here I am mostly thinking of the lights : you need lights to create/edit the XRef scene (at least for preview) but you may not want to get them loaded in the assembly scene. If the assembly scene is the rendering scene, it may have its own lights setup...
Of course, you could put forward the fact that the "no lights filter" could be in the XRef import dialogue instead. Not bad also.
Which one sounds the more logical ? Filtering at source or at loading ? |
Post by prodigy // Sep 11, 2007, 7:25am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Vray Proxy is like that but "i think" more powerfull..
Think on this..
You need to create a wood, with about 1000 trees, the trees has 10k polygons..
And you need a Car running in to it..
What a heavy scene nuh?
There is where VrayProxy cames.. you save the tree as a proxy file, and then you load into your real scene.. you can see the proxy object like i volumetric cube and you can save your scene with few mb as ussual..
But when you render, the trees are rendered with full quality..
So you can move and animate your scene with few polygons but in fact your scene has millon of polygons.. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 11, 2007, 7:28am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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This is a better explanation..
hehehe
LINK (http://www.evermotion.org/?unfold_exclusive=154&unfold=exclusive) |
Post by stan // Sep 11, 2007, 7:36am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Emmanuel, that is possible with scripts..save with or without lights..and only save renderable objects..saved in one encapulation..that could be added to the toolbar too, with a right click to open a panel with save with lights or no lights checkboxes.. |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 11, 2007, 8:09am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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So you can move and animate your scene with few polygons but in fact your scene has millon of polygons..
It sounds like what the ShapeClone plugin does. One more from Chikara Kojima.
More info here (http://web.archive.org/web/20060110000950/ckgamefactory.hp.infoseek.co.jp/tsxe/shapeclo.html) (webarchive.org)
I never tried it with VRay though. |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 11, 2007, 8:14am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Emmanuel, that is possible with scripts..save with or without lights..and only save renderable objects..saved in one encapulation..that could be added to the toolbar too, with a right click to open a panel with save with lights or no lights checkboxes..
I have no doubts it would be quite easy to set up in WS.
But XRefs are most usefull in important projects like architecture ones... And Modeler is still the unique place in where we can figure an architecture job :o |
Post by prodigy // Sep 11, 2007, 8:42am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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yup.. something like that..
About the tsx plugin it is corrupted?? |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 11, 2007, 9:08am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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yup.. something like that..
About the tsx plugin it is corrupted??
I think I have it on my HD.
Okay, an other candidate at the tsx archive page...:rolleyes: |
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