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Truespace help.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Truespace help. // Roundtable
Post by rjeff // Sep 12, 2007, 10:40am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Anybody out there know of any good books for ts7? I want to learn this program better without bothering all of you other artist. I get irratated that the ts 7 manual does not do a good job explaning..well most anything and to get the good explantion you have to pay for it. Don't get me started on pro team..can you say way over priced. When the "help" club cost as much as the soft ware..grr..I just need some good, indepth tutorials specific to TS. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 12, 2007, 10:55am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Sad to read that.
Tell me in your oppinion what's wrong with the manual??
With your own words..
To be honest?? i never get the lastest manual since my 6.0 printed version.:o
I'll try to help on that..:cool: |
Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2007, 12:37pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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RJeff, have you ever gone to the Thursday Night Meetings? There are a lot of people there who can work with you and explain real time. You can watch them do what you ask or show them what you are doing and they might correct your headaches. That is a HUGE help.
There is a printed Manual from 7.0 that might help but is becoming outdated in areas.
All my old books on TS would help me with basics on the Modeler Side but the tools today in WorkSpace wouldn't be covered.
Have you looked at the Tutorium for help?
How about all the Caligari tutorial videos? Just get the ones in the areas your interested.
I really don't think anyone here is tired of your problems. Some TS users come here so they CAN help you.
You might try to find another user in your area too or plan to meet someone at truePlace for lessons.
There is a learning curve in 3D Applications and we all have hit that wall at times.
Ask Prodigy (or Jack when he is free) to show you in a video lesson what you wanted to learn.
There are LOTS of help here, use it!
Why don't you make a list of the top 5 things you need to learn and see who helps. |
Post by rjeff // Sep 12, 2007, 2:55pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Well the thing is I need help in alot of areas. I just can't seem to get some of the concepts that you guys do and the book just does not explain it well eough. For exapmle. I was trying to figure out how to acces the blooms and glows. The book talked about them, but failed to tell me to go to the workspace not the model side. That is yet one more thing I am really confused on is why it can't all be one thing. I guess I am just ranting abit becuase I cannot do what you guys do and can't seem to get it. I have been using ts since 4 and I feel that I am no better than I was then. Just like the tribal wip I am working on. I just can't get the shape to work that I want and I can't seem to get anybody to help...and to be honest I don't want to bug people because I know you are busy as well. I just need some more detailed explanation than the manual can give. |
Post by frootee // Sep 12, 2007, 3:03pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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rjeff, we're all Cheerios in the same milk bro!
Why don't you post an image here, and show us the problem?
I've used ts since 4.3 too; I have yet to master lighting and texturing. Heck, modelling for that matter!
Scripting is the same way; we are all learning as we go along and the best way is to ask questions.
So go for it!
BTW Model side is basically 6.6. Eventually it will be removed from the application.
Froo |
Post by prodigy // Sep 12, 2007, 6:10pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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rjeff..
I'll try to explain few important points and i think that gonna make this thing more clear..
Truespace 7.x (7.51 now) are divided in two parts.. Caligari are developing a brand new side called in 7.51 Workspace. The old architecture (4.x, 5.x 6.x) still in 7.x but as a separated part from workspace called Model Side.
Ok, 7.51 Model side has all the same tools like 6.6 (the best version of the old architecture)
And 7.51 has the best version (by now ;)) for the new architecture (workspace).
Caligari are working on translate all the old technology to the new one trying to adding a better UI, new features, better workflows and options to create more powerfull images and animations.
In other hand you must understand about the tS Render engines.
By default (Lightworks and Virtua Light) and a separated plugin for VRAY (sold by spearated from truespace).
Lightworks and VirtuaLight only works in Model Side but VRAY can be used in Both sides..
Answering your question about BLOOM, Bloom is a Model side feature for Lightworks Only . Vray or VirtuaLight has no Bloom support yet.
Lightworks has DOF (Deep of Field), VirtuaLight no and Vray has Dof in the 1.52 version (Very cool indeed)
You may find diferent Workflows on both sides.. So no frustrate if you add a face on one way in model side but in workspace that doesn't work.
You must Understand the new interface and in some way are Diferent from Model side (old architecture).
How Model side and Workspace are conected?? by a Bridge...
You can see a bridge Settings:
Auto ~ Automatic conection between Both sides.
Full ~ a Full Conection (recomended if you use model and workspace side)
Off ~ Both Sides are not conected
Animation ~ the New animation has fully integration with Model side so you can create a riged avatar and can be rendered with Lightworks in model side. Remember turn to full the bridge ;).
What else...
Plugins, all the plugins work just in Model Side, but in some cases you can use the finished result in workspace.. (Modeling plugins, arrays.....)
Rendering Plugins like toon shaders or anything like that just work only with lightworks not with Vray..
Shaders:
Lightworks has your own Shaders, VL has your onw too and Vray has another group of shaders..
Each Render Engine has your own grup of shader, Darktree for example only works with Lightworks.. and Vray has Fresnell shaders and only work with Vray.
Boleans?? Yes, in model side (go to model side use boleans and back to workspaces and continue with your work) Bridge in Auto or Full
Fur?? Yes, is a new feature in 7.51 Workspace side.
Animated fur?? Not yet.
Caustics?? with VRAY (and VirtuaLight far as i can remember) and i can remember a plugin for lightworks..
Global Illumination?? you need VRAY
HDRI??? Lightworks has HDRI and Vray too.
PSD support with layers?? Model Side only with Lightworks.
3ds, Obj, X, lwo import Files??? Yes, on model side.
Collada import?? Yes in Workspace side..
Animated Texutres?? Yes but at this moment only with Lightworks (Model Side)
COB, SCN??? Only loaded from model side..
RSOBJ , RSSCN?? Only from Workspace side..
Scripts?? yes, workspace side LE.
Workspace has no Render Engine, you must buy Vray if you need to render in that side, but you can go to model side if you dont brought vray and render with any other render engine without problems..
Im just try to show important points from tS, to try to clarify the whole thing.
As Steinies told you.. we recomends you to join us at thursday night live (with Truespace or Trueplay).. we can show modeling tips, answer your questions in real time..
**Im not representing a Caligari vision or oppinion.. Just my point of view and maybe i can be wrong... :o
Regards..
Augusto |
Post by Emmanuel // Sep 12, 2007, 8:20pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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trueSpace7 manual is confusing indeed, because it mixes Player (workspace) tools and Modeler tools. Caligari's mistake was to belive that users would work on the both sides in a transparent workflow.
Since WS development is coming fast, we should find one part relative to Workspace that teaches about its architecture and tools, with room for the new features, and one part all about Modeler. Therefore, a printed manual in two volumes would be welcome.
If Modeler is still embedded in tS8, I would advise Caligari to go this way. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 13, 2007, 1:31am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Well I read your answer and correct me if I'm wrong...
There is a fourth rendering engine which is RealTime Render DX9 (only on workSpace side) so you have Real Time Bloom controls over in workSpace too. Thats how I did the Bloom in my Ship_Space Scene.
Caligari has already stated there will be no more printed manuals. (Which I disagreed with) When the Market or User base expands this could be a good project for a new Author out there...the next Frank Rivera or Peter Plantec!
I noticed Norm showing you how to use Booleans in TS but it looked like the screen was on workSpace side so that would have been confusing too. That is one of the problems when there are really two applications in one build which allows you to go here and there. Tough trying to explain the "rules of the Bridge" |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 13, 2007, 2:25am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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.
Tough trying to explain the "rules of the Bridge"
Simon and Garfunkel : ............ like a bridge over troubled waters ......:D |
Post by prodigy // Sep 13, 2007, 2:52am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Well I read your answer and correct me if I'm wrong...
There is a fourth rendering engine which is RealTime Render DX9 (only on workSpace side) so you have Real Time Bloom controls over in workSpace too. Thats how I did the Bloom in my Ship_Space Scene.
Well Bob.. yes, you can get Realtime Bloom with Dx9 Realtime, but i no considere a render engine.. Let's put on this way, Dx9 is just a very powerfull preview.. ;)
But is true the future of 3d is all in realtime... |
Post by rjeff // Sep 13, 2007, 3:06am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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To respond to FROTTEE: Yeah we may all be cheerios in the same bowl..but I am getting very soggy and sinking fast. I do have my problem posted in the wip section. It is called new wip. You can read my delima there. |
Post by frootee // Sep 13, 2007, 3:41am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi rjeff. I did see that last night; thanks. I understand your dilemna. I was trying to be motivational, and point out that we are here to help. :)
Froo |
Post by rjeff // Sep 13, 2007, 3:52am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Oh and I really appreciate it to. I am just one that does not want to be that little kid that won't stop asking questions. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 13, 2007, 3:53am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I have been looking at that Indian figure and all the suggestions. I see the head is done but is that the look your after? You could outline the figure and extrude to get that but the top (front face) would be flat like the head you finished. So what exactly do you want the figure to look like at the end? That would help us tell you which tools to use.
There were a lot of ideas given but you do have to realize your starting with a complex object that could be easy to model with extrusion or complex with point editing. (and everything in between).
I can picture doing this with Mirror modeling drawing an invisible vertical line down the center and model what you see in parts then combine them.
The shell of the turtle as Norm pointed out could be boolean but I would go anther way (choices). It all depends on what you want the finished piece to look like.
I attached an example of the real easy way,
Step One: Extrude
This tool is on the Modeler side.
I would then
Step Two: UV map
Step Three: Texture it.
Step Four: Detail using Softpaint tools in workSpace bringing out the ridges.
Step Five:Render
Of Course saving copies as you do each step in case of mistakes.
At each step read your documentation or ask questions to learn that step until you finish each step. |
Post by rjeff // Sep 13, 2007, 4:29am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Well I have the lines for extruding drawn out. If I were going to just make the shell flat then yeah I would be very much done, howerver I want the shell to be curved like a turtle shell. That is where I am running into my issues. I can't seem to get the curves to be right. I tired what Norm did and it did not work out at alll. I had some wierd geometry form. I need to redo what I did so you can see the issue I am having. |
Post by Norm // Sep 13, 2007, 4:57am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Well I have the lines for extruding drawn out. If I were going to just make the shell flat then yeah I would be very much done, howerver I want the shell to be curved like a turtle shell. That is where I am running into my issues. I can't seem to get the curves to be right. I tired what Norm did and it did not work out at alll. I had some wierd geometry form. I need to redo what I did so you can see the issue I am having.
I say upload the turtle model in an unfinished state as an object here on forums. Once we see where you are headed, we could download the object and see what we come up with. Weird geometry on a boolean operation most likely points to not enough geometry on the boolean subtraction object. When dealing with complex curved scenarios, I found using heavy density of mesh will eliminate bad looking geometry; spikes in some areas and uneven geometry. |
Post by rjeff // Sep 13, 2007, 2:40pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok here is the turtle shell. I have extruded the outer shell and placed the hollowed sphere there. Now tell me where I have went wrong or what I still need to do. Thanks. |
Post by brotherx // Sep 14, 2007, 12:50am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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rjeff...I'm relatively new as well to using truespace (had it for at least 1 year though) and the forums are invaluable to learning...I find asking is better than trying to trawl through the 1000 or so pages of the manual...
As a side topic, could we get a single PDF for the whole manual so it can be searchable all at once...??? or does someone know of a piece of software to combine them. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 14, 2007, 1:32am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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rjeff, brotherx or any other TS user having problems, have you seen the post from Prodigy?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=47106&postcount=210
You can't get better hands on training then that!
Ask question and he'll either show you how to do it or someone there will explain how to do it depending on the problem. |
Post by Norm // Sep 14, 2007, 7:58am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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I took a look at scene. I turned all your nurbs curves to polyhedrons (using model side Convert Nurbs Patch tool). I then boolean subtracted the inner polyhedron/curves from the larger outer curve. This left me with a polygon (see I copied the polygon and moved it out of way for you to see). I then swept the polygon to a height which was more than I needed. This was also copied and moved to side for you to check out. I created a new shell scenario (also moved up to z=10 so it is out of way but you can check it out). I did not do the shell accurate as I was not sure how exactly you wanted the end result to look. The lesson really involves manipulating the shell's interior so it will boolean how you want. I believe mine is too tall in z axis but you get the general idea. Notice how nice the shell boolean subtracts and leaves the portion you want in the shape you created. So you would have to tweak the shell so it leaves the shape you want. You should be able to tinker with this scene and come up with a good result.
8411
ScreenShot of model side
Notice the "footprint" the shell leaves behind? If you get bad geometry or incorrect boolean, it can be that the mesh of the "drill" is not dense enough. With proper density of mesh on the drill/shell, you can get this nice looking result.
You set up the scenario away from location 000. I moved location to 000 because it is easier to line things up and determine distances and numerical values when you begin with location 000.
Come to think of it, you could just manipulate the existing object I created and see if you can get it to fit the way you want. Resize the z and raise it up to correct level. If it looks good you can just select the bottom flat face and sweep it out to match bottom of the outer perimiter object.
So hope it helps. |
Post by Paul Boland // Sep 14, 2007, 8:37am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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This is the only problem I have with TrueSpace, lack of books on the shelves. The early days of TrueSpace saw a number of books released and I have a lot of them, TrueSpace 5 was meant to get a book and it never materialised and since then, I don't know of any books that have appeared.
I know we have a fantastic community here willing to help, but there's nothing like sitting down and following a tutorial from a book and learning as you go. You can book mark pages, insert sticky notes, and write your own notes on the book itself. You can't do that with a PDF file unless you print it.
But a manual is not the same as a book. I'm also learning to use Lightwave 8. It a very complex beast to work with indeed! The manual is so thick it should be labelled a leathal weapon! LOL! But while I've read the manual from cover to cover, it was the wealth of other books out there that are helpng me to learn the software. The manual showed me what the tools do. The books show me how to use them.
In fairness, the TrueSpace 7.51 manual does take a tutorial approach to certain areas which helps, but we need to get authors interested in writing for TrueSpace again. |
Post by rjeff // Sep 14, 2007, 9:14am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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I think I see what you mean Norm. I will play with it is see what I can do. I am also going to post a new .scn with everything extracted that I need cut down. I also just thought of something. I need to go ahead and make all the items that need to be curved so I can use one drill to curve them all at the same time so they will be curved properly. This inclued both shell halves and the "back" between them. Maybe the neck to the head and the back to the tail. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 14, 2007, 2:22pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I dont feel there is lack of documentation.
At this point I would like to throw in that it would
be nice to have more nurbs tools.
All the cutting work you are doing here is
the big domain of good nurbs tools !
I hope we will be seeing some of these for TS8.... as Roman explained
they will not make it in for TS7.6
Its almost the same procedure as Norm showed here
but you would end up in the final model with much
less poly count.
Peter |
Post by rjeff // Sep 14, 2007, 5:19pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok here is the final extruded turtle. I have not did the boolean yet becase the lap top I am using to do the simple modeling on cannont handel that much "drilling" at once. I would have to use my desktop for that. Anyway as you can see all the areas that are higher than the feet and head are what needs to be rounded off to the head. I will give it ago, but feel free to try it as well. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 14, 2007, 7:10pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Anyway as you can see all the areas that are higher than the feet and head are what needs to be rounded off to the head. I will give it ago, but feel free to try it as well.
Well I gave it a go as far as Norm did it and a bit further.
i used a nurbs program to get a nurbs surface which normaly is a much
cleaner way of doing rounded surfaces ... and as you can see
one can add next to any form to nurbs (in this case a rim ).
Peter |
Post by prodigy // Sep 15, 2007, 4:06am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Sorry about my question but what are you trying to make??
A tuttle shield?? |
Post by Steinie // Sep 15, 2007, 4:49am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Here is the original post:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3847 |
Post by prodigy // Sep 15, 2007, 6:42am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hoo thanks Steinie... |
Post by Norm // Sep 15, 2007, 7:27am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Well I gave it a go as far as Norm did it and a bit further. Peter
Most excellent strategy Peter! Great to see more than one approach to a scenario. I can't wait for nurbs to make appearance in Workspace :) |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 15, 2007, 7:47am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I can't wait for nurbs to make appearance in Workspace :)
Thanks great to hear it from you !
Nurbs in workspace .... did I say I dreamed of that ...... !:D
Peter |
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