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DRIBBLE first impressions
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
DRIBBLE first impressions // Roundtable
Post by Burnart // Sep 28, 2007, 7:05pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I'm not seeing any difference, but it does take a lot longer to render with GI on.:confused: (
I'm with Jack, Changa (previous page) and Emmanuel I am seeing zero evidence of GI in my renders (- is this part of the not having the latest c++ libraries problem? If so where can I get them from?)
3dfrog I think the control you are looking for is on the dribble "Output" tab - the shading rate. Try a setting of .25 and you should see a difference - .1 is great but is slows the render way down. |
Post by Burnart // Sep 28, 2007, 7:29pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Here are some renders of a very ugly plastic lettuce! One is done in LW the other is using dribble - guess which is which. The displacement mapping is cool even with the strange artifacts in the shadow. ;) BTW notice the normal mapping on the floorboards in LW compared to the boards in the dribble render. I guess dribble isn't doing normal mapping.
I've spent the morning messing around with single lights at a time and rendering them in dribble to see what happens. I thought area lights were implemented in this v1 release. Its not that it doesn't render but I'm getting virtually nothing from them - about 1% of the illumination I want regardless of what settings I use. I've tried drastic settings on both the light itself and the various dribble tabs but if an area light is all I have in the scene then the render is always the same - almost, but not quite, totally unlit! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 28, 2007, 9:34pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Keep in mind guys that dribble is mainly a front end for 3Delight. So if it's a problem in 3Delight, there's not much Simon can do about it except give us export to a different RIB renderer or an option to just save out the RIB files but not render... ;)
In the meantime it might help for us to learn about Renderman:
http://www.rendermanacademy.com/
and 3delight:
http://www.3delight.com/en/ |
Post by Vizu // Sep 29, 2007, 1:32am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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SIW !
Can you make a tutorialpage or a page to show wich shaders and lights will be supportet by dribble / 3delight ?
a examplescene would be fine with the right GI settings to get a smooth rendering. |
Post by 3dfrog // Sep 29, 2007, 5:34am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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I set the shading rate to .1 and the edges still look bad. I must be missing something. |
Post by SiW // Sep 29, 2007, 7:23am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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You know, if I had the dribble forums ready I wouldn't have had to wait all day to respond to my peeps ;)
frog - to enable anti-aliasing, just enable it like you do in trueSpace - adaptive, 2x, 4x, etc.
splinters - you're right, that face doesn't look pretty, despite the stunningly handsome model. It's an example of why micropolygon displacement can sometimes have a hard time - imagine the scenario: Your displacement shader moves points outwards along the calculated surface normal according to a height texture. When two polygons ("real" polygons, in your mesh) are next to each other, one may send the point one way, the other polygon is going to send the point along a different normal. This causes the crack. This is all dependent on several variables, from the geometry sent down the pipeline to the displacement shader calculations. I've found a couple of changes I can make in dribble already, but I'll be testing a variety of meshes. |
Post by splinters // Sep 29, 2007, 7:27am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Glad my face was of some help to you...I will look at zipping that scene if it helps but it is a bit big...:o
My scene, not the face...;) |
Post by SiW // Sep 29, 2007, 8:07am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Burnart - love the green.. thing. Using SSS too, yes? I know normal mapping is missing, that's coming in the next update I think. Re: area lights..
RenderMan area lights are "real", so the falloff setting (none, linear, squared) is always treated as squared. That means that just you really have to crank up the intensity - in a simple little test scene, 20 isn't uncommon. It might have to be higher if the area light is further away in a real scene. This isn't anything new btw, Lightworks requires cranked-up intensities too, and as the aim of dribble is to make things as familiar as possible, I followed suit (although the different rendering methods mean that you're only going to get a ballpark match for area lights). Incidentally, in tS5 such high intensities will blow out the real-time view completely, but that was addressed in 6 and 7)
frog - think of it this way, shading rate controls how smooth things are within objects, including things like ray shadows and reflections. Anti-aliasing controls how smooth the edges of things are.
vizu - The notes actually go over what materials, lights etc. are supported. Or did you mean post a list so that people could see before buying? |
Post by SiW // Sep 29, 2007, 8:38am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Oh, fingers crossed - Simbiont support in the next update, which will probably be some time in the next week. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 29, 2007, 8:56am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Wow Siw, thats a very very good feature..:) |
Post by 3dfrog // Sep 29, 2007, 1:25pm
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Ok, i thought someone said antialiasing settings didnt affect it so i was looking in the dribble control panel. I got it now. I like how the light looks here. It takes a while to render with the settings i used but i like the result.
banana for dribble :banana: |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 29, 2007, 8:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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3dfrog, I couldn't get AA to work, any advice on what you changed?
-Jack. |
Post by 3dfrog // Sep 30, 2007, 2:11am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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hey jack, all i did was set antialiasing to adaptive on the rendering toolbar. I am using 7.51. It will say what antialiasing you are using on the render toolbar and on the rendering panel. Maybe you are setting it from the panel and its not taking? I don't know. Try setting it from the toolbar. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 30, 2007, 2:24am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks 3dfrog. I was setting from the stack view, I'll try using the model-side icon instead. |
Post by 3dfrog // Sep 30, 2007, 4:10am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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On the truespace render to file panel there is an option to render the workspace keyframes from the model side. Any idea when this feature will be implemented for dribble? I currently can't render my animations I made in workspace with it. Besides that, my first dribble impression, fantastic. Also, any chance of a tutorial how to set up an object to have sss with dribble? |
Post by splinters // Sep 30, 2007, 4:23am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ensure a bright light to accentuate the SSS effect and paint your object with the translucent plastic material...mess to taste...:D |
Post by SiW // Sep 30, 2007, 6:25am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Any idea when this feature will be implemented for dribble? I currently can't render my animations I made in workspace with it.
I need an SDK update for this, I have no access to the Workspace information. Rest assured, once it's in my power, dribble will run under Workspace too.
Speaking of updates, this is the current changelog for next week's update:
- "Single-sided rendering" setting now respected, as well as the per-object "Double sided" flag for forcing double sided faces when single sided is enabled
- Bump/displacement mapping amplitude now better matches Lightworks
- Fixed bug with displacementbound causing incorrect cracks
- When using HDRI background/lighting it now matches Lightworks' orientation (as seen in tS7)
- Added more details to notes
I found a bug when rendering to large (greater than 2048?) images, the final image file was inverted and sometimes corrupt. Can anyone verify this? It's not a rendering problem because the intermediate file, the one that 3Delight actually produces in dribble\workingdata\output.tif.bmp (yeah, I know :D) is fine. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 30, 2007, 11:36am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Looks like I got AA working. I had to change it to something else (4x), render, then switch it back to Adaptive to get it to work.
I'm not seeing any GI though....
http://www.motbc.com/ForumStuff/dribble/GI_test.jpg
Is there anything special I need to set or does it only work with certain light setups? |
Post by prodigy // Sep 30, 2007, 11:48am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I think Driblble is perfect for the new blog.. :) |
Post by SiW // Sep 30, 2007, 8:26pm
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Jack, uncheck "use for irradiance" in the photons section. I'm finding it hard to reliably get that working, I may just remove the option until I can.
Then as long as you have raytracing enabled, you should see the GI pretty easily. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 30, 2007, 10:33pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Nope. No go. :( Looks exactly the same as before. Tried raytracing on and off. And every combination of toggles I could think of. ;)
Can you test this for next release? |
Post by SiW // Sep 30, 2007, 11:30pm
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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I just tested with the 1.0 release, in 7.x, worked fine.
- Load "radiositytest" from radiosity scene lib
- Enable raytracing in tS
- Check "irradiance" in dribble > gi
- Crank "intensity" to 10 to make it super obvious
I tried replacing the area light with a spotlight, still worked fine (and rendered faster, hehe). The only way to get it to not show the gi / color bleeding was turning off raytracing in tS.
Ohhhhhh.. wait a minute. Do you have materials with zero ambient (Luminance) levels? For color bleeding, you'll definitely want some ambient in your materials. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2007, 12:48am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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:confused: I always set my ambient values to 0 unless I have a material that is emitting light... is that a Renderman limitation? |
Post by splinters // Oct 1, 2007, 1:07am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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This is the same in Vray Jack I believe, I am having great fun with my latest image getting that 'golden days glow' look just by increasing the ambient glow in materials. In Vray you can do great neon light effects just by changing this. Must be a similar feature in dribble/3delight...:D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2007, 1:34am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah but I didn't need to make all my materials have ambient values to get bounced light in VRay... only the ones that were light sources.
Loading the rediosity test scene seems to work, but I can't get this effect when creating a scene from scratch. Could this be an issue with computing radiosity before rendering? Also unless I'm missing something the radiosity icons are MIA in 7.5...? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2007, 2:02am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ok. The problem was Radiosity. It doesn't calculate GI unless there is a Radiosity solution.
Also I noticed that it's the surface *recieving* the color bleed that has to have a non-zero ambient value, not the surface casting it.
Additionally, it doesn't seem to take into account shadows when calculating bounced light...
Since I couldn't find the icon for Radiosity. I used the icon search and set up a right click hotkey to open up the Radiosity panel.
-Jack. |
Post by splinters // Oct 1, 2007, 2:20am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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There's the 'draw objects as radiosity' icon in the top right (model toolbar) up there with draw objects as solid, wire etc.
Is that no good for what you need? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 1, 2007, 3:00am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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LOL, ok call me confused but that icon wasn't there an hour ago.... :p
And yup that's the one I needed. |
Post by splinters // Oct 1, 2007, 3:04am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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If it's any consolation, I had to have a good search for it....and I made it...:rolleyes:
Glad to help... |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 1, 2007, 4:06am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I was messing around with displacement in dribble and ended up with this furry leopard doughnut! Thought I'd just throw it into the mix :D |
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