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gallery images quality downgrade
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gallery images quality downgrade // Roundtable
Post by behzad // Oct 5, 2007, 5:51am
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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Hi, just wanted to know why the gallery images (quality wise) it has not improved since the release of version 7? In some ways it is looking like it did with version 4.
If I am wrong please let me know, i am not putting anyones art work down but more concerned about the potential that TS7 has. People judge a program by the images it produces. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 5, 2007, 6:07am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Here we go again :D..........http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4226 |
Post by behzad // Oct 5, 2007, 6:13am
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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OOps okay never mind. |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 5, 2007, 6:14am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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LOLZ, Enough! :D |
Post by jamesmc // Oct 5, 2007, 6:17am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Hi Behzad,
I see you at other forums I visit. How come you never post any artwork on any of them? |
Post by behzad // Oct 5, 2007, 6:19am
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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I did a few while back using TS but moved to Carrara and yet to make some new work.;) |
Post by Steinie // Oct 5, 2007, 6:33am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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A limo is waiting.... |
Post by Improv // Oct 5, 2007, 2:40pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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A limo is waiting....
Is that the new flavour of the week at the Tastee-Freez? :banana: |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 5, 2007, 4:24pm
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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hee hee :D |
Post by Vizu // Oct 7, 2007, 3:04am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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100 % agree to trebs.
with less exceptions, the gallery is poor.
I can´t do it better but I saw many more good images that was make in TS 1 - 6.x.
One of the exceptions is MadMouse.
He show what could be possible in TS, his work is outstanding. |
Post by spyfrog // Oct 7, 2007, 3:26am
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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100 % agree to trebs.
with less exceptions, the gallery is poor.
I can´t do it better but I saw many more good images that was make in TS 1 - 6.x.
One of the exceptions is MadMouse.
He show what could be possible in TS, his work is outstanding.
I can't compare it with how it was before but saying that the gallery is poor is in my humble opinion to take it to far. Of course, there are some pictures that perhaps isn't so good but there is usually also several very good pictures.
Take the april gallery of 2007, many good pictures there (as an example).
I hope that next gallery crush this opinions by being smashing good.
Because of lacking artistic skills I can't make it so but I am sure someone can. :D |
Post by Steinie // Oct 7, 2007, 3:51am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Back in 2001 the attention to detail was outstanding! TS artist took time to creating their works.
Look at just one example of adding something special to a render (the witch)
http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2001/Feb01/image02.asp?Cate=GImages
There are many great examples in the past of good modeling, lighting, attention to details etc.
What I find irritating about all this is the critics who have a lot of negative opinions don't submit themselves. Says something about that person's character. So far in the last year or so 3 different old timers have popped in here stating TS talent is not what it used to be and left. I think they give themselves far too much credit because they weren't the best of the crop from the past. Seems to me it would be easy money submitting their gems and winning every Gallery Contest with their masterpieces. Oh how we would shiver and tremble at their mere presence. .."oh no, don't base my comments on my OWN work...." excuse me does anyone have an Airline bag....
edit: the art work I used as an example is not the Critic I talk about later. |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 7, 2007, 4:21am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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There's nothing wrong with wanting to improve quality I guess. But I personally like the works in the gallery. I like to see people achieving their goals and some of the images are excellent. I think when the new truespace is complete and all workspace side we will see some amazing new things. Most of us are learning the tools right now. I am a returning truespace user. When I saw the new things being done with truespace I said to myself I have to be a part of that. I don't make anything amazing yet but I am practicing and I hope to. And there are many young people using ts in their classrooms who will be the stars of tomorrow, don't forget them. As truespace is in a major transition so are the users. |
Post by Paul Boland // Oct 8, 2007, 8:15am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Apology if my entry, The Wailing Child, is a source of criticism here.
I'm quite proud (and freaked) by it. |
Post by frootee // Oct 8, 2007, 8:48am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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GOSH! All this talk about poor quality in the monthly comps and forums has me all motivated and inspired. I'm gonna make the best CUBE ever! And I'll Make it Shiny too! I know... I Am the legendary god of render... no, no, no need to kneel... just a few renders here and there is sufficient. :cool:
Whatever man.
No Paul. You're image is fine. As are all the rest.
IMHO if there's a problem with the judgment of the gallery artwork, consult the judge. Any questions? Ask the judge.
Have a nice day. |
Post by splinters // Oct 8, 2007, 8:53am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No need to apologise Paul...;)
As for quality, I can remember being the very same with earlier versions of tS; looking to push the rendering abilities of the program by working on detailed images for weeks at a time. I didn't always turn out 'cartoon' stuff, you only have to visit my gallery to see 'photorealistic' stuff. I did it, I enjoyed it but I got bored. Back in the day, trying to get such high quality renders out of tS was a holy grail, maybe to prove to the 'big boys' of 3D that our little program could do it.
But now, photorealism is often a button press away what with Vray, HDRI etc. (by button I simply a feature of the renderer rather than clever lighting and texturing).
Personally i got bored trying to recreate what could be done much more effectively (and quicker) with a camera so I looked to use 3D for more unusual means, and when I started using tS for illustrating it was pretty unusual.
So maybe that is why things are the way they are. For some, they may have pushed the envelope and decided to experiment in other areas...or with other software.
I see a great deal of talent around here, a lot of which is never posted in the gallery. Why should Parva, Daybe, Madmouse etc. submit? They are busy testing tS7.6 and experimenting with new features. If I had not finished that image for my book project I would probably not have posted. You can only win one copy of tS and there is often little to spend credit on. All these factors contibute to what is perceived as lesser quality.
Often it is just 'beginners' or those still experimenting with the program who are entering and not being pushed down the line by more experienced users.
I am really glad though that this has been raised. I was getting complacent myself, entering images used for other projects just to do my bit for Caligari PR.
I am very interested to see next month's entries now...but I fear that my last Little Cloud image might not be up to scratch if the 'big boys' get some entries in...;) |
Post by chrisj // Oct 8, 2007, 8:53am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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I must get round to submitting some entries. I'm never convinced my work is finished enough to submit them. |
Post by splinters // Oct 8, 2007, 9:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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From what I remember of your work Chris it is more than finished. Ironically it reminds me of the sort of renders that more 'experienced' users are lamenting the lack of from earlier versions of tS; highly detailed with good use of lighting and textures.
Go for it I say...:D |
Post by jayr // Oct 8, 2007, 9:20am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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Personally i got bored trying to recreate what could be done much more effectively (and quicker) with a camera so I looked to use 3D for more unusual means, and when I started using tS for illustrating it was pretty unusual.
I know how you feel, after i did the Navigator pic a whils ago i felt wiped out! It took longer to experiment with the lighting than it did to model and texture the whole scene! |
Post by opiejuan // Oct 8, 2007, 11:13am
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opiejuan
Total Posts: 120
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Hi everyone,
Please keep in mind that not everyone does architecture well, or character creation and animation well, or still life well. Truth is, none of us ever did any of this well given this medium just a few short years ago. My son (15 yrs old) has taken an interest in 3D modeling and animation and I am pleased and honored that he wants to outdo his old dad (not that it would take much :) ). And my hope is that he surpases me in quantum leaps and bounds. I feel that way about everyone here too.
I'm not saying my stuff was that good, but at the time there were few of us doing much animation wise.
Heh...don't ask where that line was going because my actual point has to do with subject matter and presentation :)
Compare some of the greats of old in the One Man Show area.
Gene 'FireBrat' Gunderson (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/GeneGunderson/default.asp?Cate=One)
Mike 'BinkyDogNose' Harris (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/MikeHarris/default.asp?Cate=One)
Terry 'MadMan' Halliday (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/TerryHalladay/default.asp?Cate=One)
Andy 'WildChild' Kay (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/AndyKay/default.asp?Cate=One)
And yes.... even
Rob 'trebs' Mitchell (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/RobertMitchell/default.asp?Cate=One)
Personally, I always loved Andrew 'DaMan' Moffitts' (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/AndrewMoffitt/default.asp?Cate=One) work
Keep in mind, that while they were pumping out this kind of work, I was trying to animate some egg looking characters dancing :) Talk about a BIG difference in quality hahaha...well...anyway....
Look closer at Mike Harris's work. Notice that an interesting image isn't always about a real life look as much as it might be about giving a real life look to a unique perspective of objects that may or may not exist in real life at all! I have been guilty of staring for long periods of time at many of mike's works just trying to find the visual link that will tell me it doesn't exist. I hope that makes sense. And the simplicity of those images just confounds me all the more with the beauty he has presented to me.
Just my 3 1/2 cents worth :)
Opie
p.s. I didn't mean to just be a name dropper or to exclude any of the people that gained 'One Man Show' status..I just ran out of cute names to insert in the links :) |
Post by camelot // Oct 8, 2007, 1:48pm
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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I did a few while back using TS but moved to Carrara and yet to make some new work.;)
I can vouch for the crazy wabbit - I have seen some of his work. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 8, 2007, 3:02pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Opiejuan, I think you missed at least one "Geoff Holman".
I'm pretty sure he currently owns a company selling Texture Disks.
http://www.zargonstudios.com/
Mike (did you say BinkyDogNoseHair?):D, is still here and on Beta. (which is a curse too because they tend to stop submitting to the gallery)
Terry (who I always enjoyed talking to) owned a used Book Store and moved on to an other 3D software application.
How about Frank Rivera? won the second Gallery contest back in 97 and wrote the TS4 masterpiece book. Thought he would like Animation Master but soon found out it's shortcomings and moved on again. Last seen with Logicbit.
Believe it or not Bill Fleming was very good, before the mob went after him.
Who can forget Darris Dobbs, one of the nicest people to ever use trueSpace.
There of course are others but these are the ones I remember most. A very helpful bunch. |
Post by opiejuan // Oct 9, 2007, 2:34am
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opiejuan
Total Posts: 120
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Steinie,
You are correct on all counts. I did not mean to leave anyone out, I just got lazy :p I actually was blessed to meet a lot of these guys as well as a host of fellow tSers several years ago.I'm sure Geoff Holman will not soon forget the dead battery in my car when I picked him up at the airport in the blistering heat! WOA! Talk about embarassing! But I regress.
Thanks for the update on where some of these guys have gone. I would very much like to catch up with Terry Halliday. If anyone has a current email address for him I would appreciate it in a PM or something.
I only brought up all these past tStroopers in hopes to inspire the ones who need it...like me. I am not an art guru as some are. Personally, I don't care so much about the 'formal' artistic attributes of a render as much as I enjoy the simpler aspects of art in general. I guess you could say I respond more to the uneducated side of art than to the purely logical. I'd rather know someone had fun and learned and explored and pushed the possibilities of their scene than worry if some sort of standard art formula was adhered to.
I am not meaning to step on the toes of those of you who are the current and sometimes long standing Forum tSTroopers, I have great respect for you guys. You all hung in there, when some of us did not.
And in Darris Dobbs case, couldn't. A man we all still miss. |
Post by Vizu // Oct 12, 2007, 6:51am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Yes my misstake, i try to answear on TREB´s Thread. |
Post by digitaldali // Oct 16, 2007, 2:38pm
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digitaldali
Total Posts: 143
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Very eloquently put, OpieJuan...I agree! Art is only art if it speaks to you. It doesn't have to be formulaic (In fact, I think it's best if it's not). It doesn't have to be complex or intricate or even "pretty." It just has to evoke something in the viewer (and creator). That's what's most important. |
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