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Animator's Club, Saturday October 27
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Animator's Club, Saturday October 27 // Roundtable
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 24, 2007, 11:59am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Hello animators.
We will be having another animation club meeting this Saturday, October 27, at 12 pm pst / 3 pm est / 8 pm uk time. It will be held in the scriptorium shared space. set your network properties to tpportal 1212. Or click the link on the easel in the live meeting room.
The topic, courtesy of Paul Boland, will be laser beams this week. So if you have time before the meeting see if you can find a solution to animating a laser beam. I am gonna try to make one similar to Paul's set up and see how that goes.
I want the next one after this to be something on procedural animation. I am gonna try to get the tutorial before the next meeting so I can get some idea how to do it and come up with a project.
Thanks
C ya there. |
Post by Scala3D // Oct 24, 2007, 3:47pm
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Scala3D
Total Posts: 157
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3dfrog, looking forward to it. Do you have to have talent to come to this meeting...lol?
Regards,
Scala3D |
Post by frootee // Oct 24, 2007, 3:56pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi 3dfrog. Sounds like fun!
Froo |
Post by Paul Boland // Oct 25, 2007, 7:43am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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The topic, courtesy of Paul Boland, will be laser beams this week. So if you have time before the meeting see if you can find a solution to animating a laser beam. I am gonna try to make one similar to Paul's set up and see how that goes.
Aw man, thanks very much! I felt that perhaps the topic had been discussed in the thread so nice surprise to see it getting picked, appreciate that. 8:00p.m. Saturday... I should be able to make that.
Thanks again. |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 26, 2007, 12:23pm
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Hey guys.
Attached is a movie of my laser beam. If I knew more about directx materials I could probably make it glow more.
C ya tomorrow.
Thanks |
Post by frootee // Oct 26, 2007, 3:48pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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pretty cool 3dfrog! |
Post by SteveBe // Oct 26, 2007, 6:35pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Looks good 3dfrog! I'm sure you can get some DX tips tomorrow.:)
Here's one I set up, the scene is 7 MB so not practicle for shared space
but I think I'll model a low poly mesh. The ship isn't mine any ways, credit
to Ed Giddings at:
http://www.trekmeshes.ch/
Thanks Ed!! |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 27, 2007, 2:43am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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wow steve that is a great looking laser. I hope u can bring it today. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 27, 2007, 8:09am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Yeeehah!!!:banana:
Laser beams are a great topic! I wouldn't miss this one for the world!:D
It starts in a few minutes and folks are already streaming in from all over the galaxy for this one hoping to learn new laser beam methods!
- Mark / 3dvisuals dude
http://bestsmileys.com/scifi/17.gif |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 27, 2007, 8:28am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Oh hey....
here's another way to use your lasers there today.:D
http://smilies.instinctive-hosting.com/smiles/music/knives38.gif |
Post by Paul Boland // Oct 27, 2007, 8:38am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Can I just say thank you very much for those of you who are looking into this topic for me. I'm sure other TrueSpace users will welcome it too, but I felt that it was perhaps a weak topic of interest, so nice to see so many offering help, it is very much appreciated. The two example files above are very impressive and really do play the part well. Not to be picky or negative, but they are just missing one thing for me... The initial travel factor. They are more instant beams then firing beams, traveling from source to destination. But again, I'm not being picky or negative here. The examples are great and are very much appreciated. I'll be in for the meeting soon. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 27, 2007, 8:58am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi Paul,
Long time since I talked to you old buddy, hope all is going well for you there on The Emerald Isle.:)
As far as the methods employed for beams goes, a few scripted animation tweaks to a cylinder should be enough to simulate a firing beam, I just think the primary focus so far has been a realistic appearance of the beam itself, but once that is achieved the rest should in fact be much easier to do.
Hang in there.... it won't be long until we're all zapping each other in shared space with these things probably, especially since the scripting to actually pick up and use one of these as a laser sabre has already been accomplished and uploaded here to the forums by Dele.:)
Attaching them to ships would be much easier. I also saw a version of SteveBe's TorusKnot activated by him in shared space one night with the lights turned off in the portal... it was very, very much like seeing pulsated waves of laser beam light in rapid bursts.... an awesome thing to see there for sure.
With all the Scripting talent in this Community and with so many of these Scriptors interested in Animation of all kinds, it follows that one breakthrough on this will rapidly lead to others and specific variations such as the one you are now seeking. Just a matter of time, and probably not much at all.:)
So shine up your cone and I'll be seeing you there soon!:D
it's party time!:banana:
http://bestsmileys.com/music2/21.gif
- Mark / 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 27, 2007, 9:04am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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whqat is the name of the shared space that you guys are in? Some of us do not know where the Script guys meet... |
Post by jayr // Oct 27, 2007, 9:10am
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jayr
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hi rich, go to the thursday night meeting place, then theres a link to the scripting room then click on the blackboard with tom hanks on it |
Post by Délé // Oct 27, 2007, 9:11am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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It's tpportal, port 1212 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 27, 2007, 11:27am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Had a blast as always!
Great presentations all of them!:)
Jane's laser was way cool and I saw others but don't know who's they were, all nice work from everyone though for sure.
We almost got SteveBe's incredible procedurally animated torusknot scripting set up on a laser beam cylinder but that proved a tad too complex time-wise for this meeting, maybe we can do that again soon on a Tuesday night.
Great time, great people. Thanks everybody,
- Mark / 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 27, 2007, 2:09pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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when you do those, is the visual from TS different than TP?
Just curious as to what I might have been missing.
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 27, 2007, 9:08pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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It was just a question guys :D I was not trying to imply anything, just wandering if I should load up ts7.51 for these instead of TP1.3
Rich |
Post by SteveBe // Oct 27, 2007, 11:38pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Hi Rich, the main difference visually would be 7.51 has Anti-Aliasing & SuperSampling,
TP 1.3 has SuperSampling (I prefer AA on my system).
Other than that (although not a visual difference)there is no LE,
which may not be a big deal to some, but I like to have it handy.:)
truePlay requires less resources so that could be a plus. |
Post by Cayenne // Oct 28, 2007, 2:38am
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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It was a great meeting last night last . I look forward to more in the future.
I made a repositry thread and posted a PDF document to it.
I also made thread to have replies which is cross linked to the thread and the repositry item.
the item is here http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4350
itd be good to try and use a common area to put our objects in , and then create a cross linked thread for replies to the subject. |
Post by Paul Boland // Oct 28, 2007, 10:30am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Although I did so last night, I would like to again say a huge thank you to all who took part in this. This was my first time attending such a meeting and I didn't know what to expect. There were some really superb looking examples on show. My only gripe was, I had other plans at 9:00p.m. and so could only stay an hour. When I left, there were some great looking projects on show, and others I hadn't had the time to look at yet.
I would like to extend a special thank you to 3DFrog. He took me aside and for the hour I was there, he took me into the depths of TrueSpace showing me the link editor and how it's used in his laser creation. I must admit some of it was way over my head for the moment, but it was very much appreciated and has opened up a whole new area of TrueSpace for me to look into, starting with the manual and then coming to the forums when I need help.
To those who took part, thank you all. I'm sorry that I didn't get to see the majority of the projects on show, but it was very impressive indeed and the fact that you all put in so much effort based on my single request is very, very, very much appreciated.
If only I had of known what to expect, I would have tried to have made alternative arrangements for my 9:00p.m. appointment. But I know now and will be attending other meetings like this in the future.
Again, thank you all, I really can't say this enough. |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 28, 2007, 10:48am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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This is an observation, not a slam...
If someone walks in off the street, how are they going to get anything out of this? It appeared more of a private social club for you guys, unlike Paul I had no idea what was being displayed, why and who. I saw 2 cubes (I think they were orange) with a yellow cylinder connecting them. I tried to keep up with the dialog but it was hard. After a period of time, it just seemed like there was no benefit, I had asked a question but got no answer... I watched as the dialog continued amongst you guys that are part of the group...
If the intent is to keep it a closed or invite only group I completely understand this approach, if the intent is to encourage outsiders (I think I qualify there) in, than you might want to consider some hand holding or directions here so that new people can come in somewhat prepared...
Again, not a slam, and I know I am not part of the group. It is just an observation and something you might want to consider...
Best of luck with your meetings.
Rich |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 28, 2007, 11:17am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Thanks for coming everyone. We had some fine laser examples.
The meeting went about an hour and a half.
Rich, I'm really sorry if you didn't feel you were included in what was going on. I was showing Paul the link editor for a while so I might have missed your questions. I want this group to be for everyone so thanks for voicing your concern. I will try to moderate the group a little better to everyone's needs. This is only the groups second meeting so there is a lot to learn on running these. I hope you come back and give it another try.
Thanks for setting up that repository thread paul.
Paul B, your welcome and thanks for setting a cool topic for the meeting. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 28, 2007, 2:03pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Sorry to hear you felt this way Rich.
I have to wonder how it was possible, unless maybe you were there without audio turned on or had Vista with it's current audio inability in shared space, because the conversations going on in audio were extremely informative every step of the way.
In the chat window there is always a less desireable effect than conducting a meeting by Voice, although the chat window is in fact used very often for the "hand holding" assistance which you suggested, at least it is at every single one of the meetings which Frootee and I hold in shared space. That too is very difficult to do though, trying to host a meeting and explain things rapidly during voice discussions while simultaneously keeping an eye on who has no Voice shown as "on" and thus of course has no clue what is happening in audio. Text chat does tend to get neglected, although I don't ever see it as being intentional on the part of meeting conductors.
It's true that as Dennis pointed out he is in fact new at this, as are we all. I've conducted quite a few meetings already in shared space myself and I can tell you first hand it is extremely difficult to have a flawless meeting without a great deal of support from others present. Fortunately there is a kind of dynamic that starts to be sensed among those simultaneously attempting to contribute to a given meeting, just ask Glen or Dele for instance whether they sensed it at this last meeting and I'm confident they will say yes. I sensed it too, but only when I had turned "Start Voice" on.
The same phenomena you described above could also be accurately attributed to the TNL! Meetings, which many consider the most professional shared space meetings which we as a Community hold there. It is often said at these meetings in voice "someone type in the chat window to (add a name) to let them know what's happening here, they have Voice off."
It is true that in that particular Scriptorium Portal (tp1212) it is difficult to arrange oneself in 3D Space Relation to others so as to have clear audio from all parties present, but I manage to do it after a bit every time. It's also true that moving around in there with it's empty space and plain wire grid tends to be uncomfortable at times, and sometimes makes it inherently difficult to determine the right angle to be at in order to follow a specific presentation.
There are other issues with shared space also which are heavy considerations for meeting hosts, such as overall scene weight and complexity in relation to the number of avatars present and the number of them on broadband or dialup. It calls for tough decisions sometimes, especially when the nature of a presentation requires the use of certain active scripts such as timers which can add enormous lag to dialup and broadband users and sometimes even crash them. Hard choices.
All in all I would say that given my personal experience with conducting shared space meetings Dennis has done a genuinely superb job of it and is clearly getting better all the time. It's kind of hard to expect that too when he only conducts these meetings every other week, but he has in fact grown wiser and better at it in several ways. He's a quicker learner than me.;)
I don't recall seeing a message in text chat which went unanswered but I do believe you when you said that happened to you. I'm sorry that happened. Sometimes I will let a question ride rather than answer it if it appears to be directed at someone else or appears to require a specific answer I am unable to provide. Perhaps that occured in this case, or more likely, as Dennis was inside the Link Editor trying to learn or explain something which was being discussed in Voice, in which case he wouldn't have spotted a simultaneous text chat message when as you said the text messages kept scrolling.
It would be very nice if more of us supported each other more at these meetings in terms of providing specific host assistance, such as text chat monitoring, and anyone here is fully qualified to do that anytime.
- Mark / 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 28, 2007, 2:28pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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First, I had stated is was not a slam :) more a observation. You are correct, I am using Vista. I also have an XP machine, but it does not have a microphone.
One of the questions I asked was whether a microphone was required :) but than I saw a good flow of info going in the text window.
My point of posting the message was not to slam your meeting but to give feedback from someone who visited for the first time. Directions on how to get to the meeting place should be put in a place someone can find them easily. Basic requirements to what the user may need should also be made available. Than if possible any info/objects/special instructions.
You guys live and breathe the Shared Space Stuff, some are not as versed and will quickly find the system daunting or user unfriendly. I would have given up just trying to find the room but I was determined to find where you guys were. So I guess I missed all of the audio that would have made the whole meeting make some sense... without audio it is a disorganized event that thankfully does have text on the screen, but it was very hard to figure out exactly what was going on...
Something to ponder.
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 28, 2007, 2:44pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Dennis
I personally apologize to you if you in any way feel my message was an attack, if it sounded harsh, it was not intended and was not directed at you or anyone else. I am not familiar with how you guys (sorry for grouping people here, I know many of the people in these groups are members of some of the other regular groups) are familiar with shared space, I thought you would enjoy my unbiased newbee view...
I may have been a tad bit frustrated by the whole thing, I was not mad at anyone though.
Rich |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 28, 2007, 3:12pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Oh no hey... no need for an apology of any kind, these were constructive criticisms, helpful observations, healthy things for us all to consider I sincerely agree completely.:)
You are also definitely right about the difficulty one almost always encounters in trying to locate and prepare for each meeting and meeting type. As meeting hosts we all contend with these issues every week in trying to find an adequate method to ensure these needs are addressed every time ahead of each meeting. We don't always succeed at all!:o We do try though.
We have had a few occasions, for instance, on Tuesday Night meetings when we had several things go wrong in advance of a meeting. Sometimes the Countdown Timer would be either missing or set to the wrong hour. Sometimes we would have the Event Page provided by Caligari (which has the countdown timer added to it weekly) pointing to incorrect threads at the forum for proper port-setting instructions for TS7.5Demo users. Sometimes events themselves which had been announced in advance suddenly (and unbenounced to everyone here) had the key speakers unable to attend! Believe me, it's a real battle to pull one of these off successfully and often a lot of the success is due only to support and a high degree of luck in the final analysis!:p
Your impressions are important, they do help. And suggestions which could aid us all in such things are always welcome. We need them obviously, all of us hosting meetings. I confess my own meetings there have often (if not usually:p) been highly disjointed and disorganized in comparison with Dennis's efforts, and I for one certainly need help, support, and on occasion direction.:o
I really wish more of us would help each other host these events is all. The need which you pointed out is one of many valid needs, logging and transcription being another for those unable to attend. The need you pointed out is one which I fortunately have been able to trust Norm to usually be there to provide at the Tuesday meetings, and I have come to lean heavily on him in that regard perhaps too. It would help a great deal if others with no audio problems there could step up and volunteer to assist us all with that is all.
I'm also open to suggestion on better methods to conglomerate all the prerequisite instructions for a given meeting properly in one place for the convenience of those planning to attend. We have tried this in various incarnations but our experiments in this regard are far from over in my opinion as well.:)
Thanks, your input is important to us all.
- Mark / 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 28, 2007, 3:53pm
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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I didn't take your comments as a slam at all Rich. On the contrary, I find your suggestions useful. Until voice is improved for all users its a tough balance. Everyone should feel included here. If you run it on your xp machine you can just listen through your speakers or headphones and respond in type if you dont have a mic. I rarely use mic myself but listen in. Unfortunately there's no way around the vista thing right now though. I will try to give those without voice more consideration though, I admit I didn't really look if people had their voice off. Sorry about that. I appreciate the feedback. |
Post by jane55 // Oct 28, 2007, 8:25pm
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jane55
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This is my first post to the Caligari newsgroups - just joined last week. I have just a few comments to add to this current discussion.
First, thanks 3dvisuals dude for your encouraging words about my laser earlier in this thread - I really do appreciate such feedback. I'd also like to thank Dele for showing such interest in my laser at the meeting.
My next comments are for Rich. I can totally understand the frustration you felt at the meeting - like you I was pretty much a newbe there - it was my second time and I did struggle a bit to keep up with what was going on particularly as, like you, I didn't have Voice working (or at least I thought I had it on but still couldn't hear a thing the entire time). But please do come and try again next meeting - it was definitely easier for me this meeting than the first one, and I'm sure it will be even easier next time.
I wonder if for newbe's one of the more experienced attendees could sort of act as a designated partner for a little while at the start of a meeting - even just for 15 minutes or so while a new user accustoms themselves to this new experience. Perhaps we could take turns - one person rostered per meeting to help out. I'm suggesting a designated person so the person being helped can just focus on the messages from that one person.
By the way, Rich, the "2 cubes with a yellow cylinder connecting them" that you mentioned was my contribution - I made it to demonstrate to Paul how to make sure a laser tracks and hits its target accurately and doesn't pass out through the other side after striking it. I think that was the problem he was trying to solve. My explanation of this concept at the meeting was rather sketchy and interspersed amongst the other conversations scrolling down the text chat window so I wouldn't be surprised if anyone found it difficult to follow. I'd be happy to explain it further if you want. Anyway, hope to see you there next time.
Regards to all,
Jane |
Post by SteveBe // Oct 28, 2007, 9:29pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Welcome to the forums Jane.:)
This was my first time at the Animators Club as well. I was trying to follow everything
that was going on, but it wasn't easy with audio and text overload. I think that
Paul A. has the right idea of starting a thread to document some of what people
have created. I agree that the best approach would be for people to take turns
so that it's easier to follow during the meetings.
These are still the early days of collaboration and we need th develope a framework
as we go. |
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