|
|
Projection of images onto a 3d scene?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Projection of images onto a 3d scene? // Roundtable
Post by davidjohnson // Oct 28, 2007, 7:02am
|
davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
|
Hey, I saw this interesting article about projecting photo realistic images unto a 3D scene - can TS do this? The results look amazing, but I don't think it is that simple as the article makes it sound.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/wilson_tim/cin_comp.php |
Post by Emma // Oct 28, 2007, 2:18pm
|
Emma
Total Posts: 344
|
Generally it is kind of a masquerade and all 3D programs can be a part of it.
Just as an example I took an old picture out of a magazine from 1892 another engraved postcard from 1920 and as a far background image one that was computer calculated, so no real desert.
Setting up the scenery as it looks in trueSpace editor mode:
9226
in the front we have a part of the old magazine picture, a bit behind is the engraved postcard and finally in the background is the computer calculated image.
Lets render it with trueSpace
9227
Well, and the guy with the ear phones who seems to be talking to the sheep is the actor who usually jumps around in front of a blue box background and who is mixed together with the rest of the scenery.
At the left you see the original image, right you see the masking images.
This is the basic, broadly said. |
Post by davidjohnson // Oct 28, 2007, 2:49pm
|
davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
|
Ok, thanks, but it doesn't seem to look like what they were doing in the tutorial. As I said, there might be a part missing, because in the first picture in the tutorial, it shows simple primitives for a city, in the next picture it is a photorealistic city whereas the author states he projected images onto the 3d layers to achieve this effect. |
Post by Emma // Oct 29, 2007, 12:59pm
|
Emma
Total Posts: 344
|
Well, above is just the basics I was trying to scratch on. As said in the tutorial it must be carefull and precise planed and also very precisely worked through. The scenery shown there is already a complex one, so I'll take just a simple scenery to pick up really only some aspects:
9250
As you can see we just have a few cubes there, some very thin others just like a normal looking cube. Additionally one figure, so you have a scale on which you could calculate resizing of the different cubes for the final scenery
This time I add again the only front of a building, I don't have a good photograph of one, so I just took an old postcard from which I again did fit the image so that it can be masked for the buildings outline.
9251
On the right big cube I left the sides grey so you can see it is really a cube. But you can also see that realtime view of trueSpace already lets you see during editing how it will look in reality. Well, and here it is
9252
But, there is, as said above, much more work to be put into this.
Already in the planning phase
- you have do define precisely from which points your camera will look later
- you have to define which views of a building you need, front, side,....
- you have to define where actors will later stay behind or in front of something ( like for example if an actor will step behind the monument in front of the colored postcard from first posting above)
- you have to define which objects have to be in 3D, means you have to take pictures from front, sides, top, etc.
- you have to define the needed scales to have correct hight and distances in connection with the actors.
- you have to define moving start/stop points inside the scenery for the actors (who will act in a blue box without the image
- you have to define the camera settings, especially the view angles for each step of the scenery
I'm sure I have forgotten a lot of others but I think one can see that plannig is the most important thing and then good programs will help to do the rest.
- good graphics program, to prepare the photos taken into a fitting texture
- probably, if you will work with 3D effects like Normal Maps or Bump maps, as trueSpace offers, you will need graphics functions to create them from the photos
- partly you will have to create for example Bump maps by your own, means you need to have an understanding how they work (like for maybe the columns in the Building)
- 3D program, it must have good texturing possibilities including UV mapping and transparency mapping
- realtime preview saves lots of time, and as more complex the scenery is as more time you will need
and I think what you need for such a thing anyway, a lot of time, :D |
Post by SteveBe // Oct 29, 2007, 1:41pm
|
SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
|
Good example Emma! There is a thread where RichLevy posted example here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2816&highlight=photoshop+extended
This got me interested so I tried it out, unfortunatly it requires Photoshop 3 Extended.:(
I think the process is the same as what Emma is explaining, just faster with PS3E.
Attached video of a quick flythrough, the image was posted some time ago
on the old forums. Sorry, but I couldn't find the old post to give creator credit.(cool sketch though!)
9253 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Oct 29, 2007, 5:23pm
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
Great stuff here guys!:)
It should probably also be mentioned that you can do a lot along these lines with a projection lamp and a lot of careful texture aiming, especially in cases where you are dealing with frames that will only be seen for a fraction of a second.
Keep up the cool posts on this... very interesting stuff for sure.:)
Thanks,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by davidjohnson // Oct 30, 2007, 10:39am
|
davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
|
Thanks guys, but it doesn't look anywhere near the photo realism of the tutorial
http://library.creativecow.net/artic...m/cin_comp.php
Is this a matter of tweaking? Is there something else going on there? |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 30, 2007, 12:32pm
|
RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
|
The reality is not all 3D applications are created the same. I have been mentioning Camera Projections since I got on the beta team. At some point I am sure we will get them, till than we have to use creative solutions. If you want the output to look photoreal, you have to use real photos for the textures :D
Emmas examples are magazine scans, Steve's animation is completely kick butt! That is one sweat example! Use Emmas example but use photos to get your textures from.
So some things will work fine as Emma shows, others you may not be able to do as easily. If you have a camera, and a place in mind that you want to shoot, you can do something close to what is being done in your tutorial, but you will need to plan it. You can not just take a single photo and than expect to camera project it in TS. You could take a series of face on shots than use those as textures for your environment.
I did a church some months back using a similar technique. Take a front view of the church, bring it into TS, place the photo material on a plane, bring the plane into WS, and than using the Draw PolyLine Tool, trace the building, than delete the parts of the texture that you do not want. By stacking the different elements as Emma is doing you create the depth and illusion of 3D in your environment.
It is harder to explain the technique than it is to do... I had some examples, but I am cleaning up 2 500 gig drives that used to have all of my play files on them... right now the drives are filled with photos, panos, and time lapses I have been doing the last couple of years. I have a brand new 1TB firewire drive on the way.
Rich |
Post by Emma // Oct 30, 2007, 1:45pm
|
Emma
Total Posts: 344
|
Sorry it is not that easy to explain, the textures are the main part of this. In my examples I didn't use any photos taken for such purpose. Instead I used just some graphics image, because of them I have a lot and the effect is the same. Searched around in all my boxes for any photos I could take and created now following:
9281
It doesn't matter, what you wan't to show,
- a piece of torn news paper
- a brick wall
- a nice surrounding
- a phantasy imagae
- a real street
it is all done with those simple blocks on which you place a texture. The qualitiy of those texture images for that special purpose you think about is the main factor ! You have to invest much time and preparation into it.
Let's take the street. While the street looks well, the side with the trees doesn't, it looks poor, not really real. Why not ? well I just took a simple picture of the street with the perspective directed along the street into the distance. So what I did now here was cut off the trees from that photo in a graphics program, turning it a bit and putting it on a grey block as a final texture.
Now, if you plan such a street view you will have to take at least two pictures,
- one from the street and
- another one with the correct perspecive ! ! ! from the correct direction from those trees along the street side.
This is why you will always have to invest much work into this prepartion for what you are thinking of before you can start to create the final product.
Don't let you blend from those phantastic looking pictures on the website you mentioned. Rather take a look at one and make yourself a list what had to be photographed or painted from all viewable directions before it turned into what is shown. Then take for yourself a simple scene, let's say one small house, a barn in the background a street running through the scene and an open gate. Not much, but you will see how much is necessary already. If you have a program with a reality editor mode you can walk through it over and over again and will see what looks wrong and what you didn't think of before starting the time eating renderings.
Just a small change to above picture makes a difference to the same scenery:
- different lightning
- trees are shaped to look more like natural
- a few holes to look through the trees
9318
A master of such reality scenerys is parva, take a look at
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4250
Wish I could do that stuff in that perfection he does, it's still a long way for me. |
Post by davidjohnson // Oct 31, 2007, 9:33am
|
davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
|
That is starting to look more like it. Can you post the original 3D model as well, so I can see what you are texturing or projecting onto? |
Post by Emma // Oct 31, 2007, 12:19pm
|
Emma
Total Posts: 344
|
Please keep in mind, what I'm showing here is very primitive, really just the basics. So you will find in this scenery so far only flat cubes on which I just place the textures.
9325
On those objects I now placed the following images (the London building behind the trees is missing, didn't fit into the 800*600 allowed image size)
9324
These are the original images. You can compare now that what I changed as masking areas in the old painting, and how I separated street and trees, and finally in last image above shaped the trees.
In the next thread entry you can download scenery and trueSpace VRay materials as shown in this image |
Post by Emma // Oct 31, 2007, 12:59pm
|
Emma
Total Posts: 344
|
To give you something for experimenting here is
- the basic scenery with the empty building blocks : UebsieAufbau.zip
Now here are the trueSpace VRay material for the
-Lady and the sheep : LadySheep.zip
- tree side : TreeSide.zip
- brick wall : Brickwall.zip
- street ground : StreetBoden.zip
There is something special to say to the street. As you can check on the original photo of the street, it is cut off on the right lower side because I took the photo not at the middle of the street.
Therefore I had to cheat in the scenery, so notice that I use two blocks for the street, put the same stree ground imag on them but turn one 180 degrees. If you just throw the VRay materials on them in the scenery they should already look perfect. In "chaotic" looking scenerys you can often use such tricks to fill up a hole which will hardly get noticed. |
Post by Colfax // Oct 31, 2007, 3:58pm
|
Colfax
Total Posts: 49
|
Emma,
I like what you're doing by placing 2d elements into a 3d space, but I was thinking of something entirely different when I read the phrase "projection of images onto a 3D scene."
Disney rereleased 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' in 3D, and they achieved the effect by recreating the entire movie in 3d space and then projecting the original movie straight onto the 3d models and rendering a second, slightly offset angle.
I believe Lucasfilms has made some mention of doing this with the original Star Wars trilogy.
Here is a nice example of the basic idea on youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VuoljANz4EA |
Post by davidjohnson // Nov 1, 2007, 3:10pm
|
davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
|
Are you thinking about what Canoma can do? |
|
