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Copyrighted Thread
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They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Copyrighted Thread // Roundtable
Post by Jack Edwards // Nov 7, 2007, 7:12am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ok, thanks Norm. Glad to hear that it got discussed in the meeting.
So I guess it looks like if users want access to the private forums they have to join proTeam. I definitely would like to see more people using the proTeam forums. |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 7, 2007, 8:07am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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Well, when my ship comes from China, laden with gold.... :D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Nov 7, 2007, 8:19am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Sometimes Caligari offers specials that include proTeam which helps a lot. |
Post by jamesmc // Nov 7, 2007, 8:32am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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You can still get free blogs with video blogs (vlogs) for free. I don't see a problem here.
One can get their own Websites for free still. Lot of options if cash is a problem.
If you want to spend a little coin, one can get their own domain name. Go Daddy has had specials for 1.99/year. That's cheap!
One can make their own Website as secure as you wish. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Nov 7, 2007, 8:37am
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Jack Edwards
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James, think you're missing the point. People want to be able to take advantage of the depth of the community that Caligari draws to their website. ;) |
Post by jamesmc // Nov 7, 2007, 9:16am
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jamesmc
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James, think you're missing the point. People want to be able to take advantage of the depth of the community that Caligari draws to their website. ;)
Maybe, but they have these things called "URLS" that can lead to a secure Website where their images are stored and can only be accessed by sign in.
That way, they can control who sees their images. |
Post by splinters // Nov 7, 2007, 9:39am
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splinters
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It's all gone a bit mad...:D
Norm says no changes will be made and there is always the option of protecting your own website. Choice is with the artist/designer now which suits them best or, indeed, if they wish to distibute work across both..or even wider than that.
I remember an issue (last year?) where a guy was selling prints which were of work produced for the gallery...that was just plain theft, he was not stealing ideas for his own projects, just stealing the artwork which leaves us with WIP's, lo-res and watermarked stuff as pretty safe for that. |
Post by hemulin // Nov 7, 2007, 10:10am
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hemulin
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I remember an issue (last year?) where a guy was selling prints which were of work produced for the gallery...that was just plain theft, he was not stealing ideas for his own projects, just stealing the artwork which leaves us with WIP's, lo-res and watermarked stuff as pretty safe for that.
Perhaps we should patent everything before submitting it online. ;):D |
Post by Dragneye // Nov 7, 2007, 10:13pm
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Dragneye
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I am SO sorry that I MUST respond (my 2 cents) to this thread
I can totally understand ( I had a phrase that I have created AND a pic usurped. At least one person made money off it) ...
I come from a world (they tell me it doesn't exist any longer. I don't give a damn what others say, or do... I am [trying] to be exactly who I say I want to be) where your word, and your handshake amounts to EVERYthing you stand for.
THis is the first time and hopefully the last time, that I have seen something that hurts So much on this website. My (purposeful) innocence (I try to live the Dao rather than the Western interpretation of what life should/is like) has been, well, if not shattered, then, very hurt, by this particular thread.
I live in NY... I know all abt 'dog eat dog'... I don't like it, and I don't live it.
This website, this community, this forum, this opportunity, is a public place, to me a refuge if you will. We are here to learn, to expand, to create, to enrich our minds, and our dreams. To have this very subject of 'intellectual property' surface its head in a place that I consider a refuge, a school, is to me, VERY disheartening.
I know this is more a philosophical diatribe on my part than meaningful input, but the concept, my point, is... please don't hide the beauty which you call 'my work, my art, my efforts'... There is much to revel in that I would never see. Please don't hide the awesomeness of YOUR eye
PS: To all you SOBs... have the gall, the guts, the strength, to create beauty of your own. In the end, no matter what 'gain' you may have stolen... in the end... all you will be left with, is your character. When you're done, YOU don't get to judge you... only others that survive you, do. Your 'actions'... are YOUR everything.
PSS: When I first started posting here, I had a 'dream', a promise that I made to myself. That I would become experienced enough in time, to give more than I have recieved. If ANYone wishes ANYthing I have to offer, any guidance, any .obj, anything; just ask. As you all have been kind and forthcoming... so must I. ;) |
Post by MadMouse // Nov 7, 2007, 11:28pm
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We discussed in a meeting this week and was decided to keep forums as they are and hope everyone is not worried about copyright.
Thanks for the response Norm and to Caligari for taking this under consideration. As far as I'm concerned, this matter is now closed. I cant say that I'll be happy to post everything that I create for commercial purposes but that shouldn't effect me too much. Lets just hope that one day we don't see a thread entitled 'Someones stolen my work!' fingers crossed :rolleyes: |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 8, 2007, 5:54am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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I have freely shared a great deal of my creativity all over the web, desiring nothing more than recognition of my authorship, and I gladly spent two years working on a game which was given freely to all who desired it. That was satisfying and a good learning experience, but now I do hope to produce something commercial, however modest a venture it is.
Considering how many 'guests' I see online here at any given time, I'm disappointed that we can't have a bit more protection for the works we are sharing with one another, but the choices have been made, and I will continue to participate as much as I'm able. |
Post by frootee // Nov 8, 2007, 7:18am
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frootee
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I think it would be a good idea to investigate how other professionals who deal with digital media handle their copyrighted assets. Do they share it on a website, or do they consider other methods? |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 8, 2007, 8:10am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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I realize that my little modeling project is just "a mudpie in a kitchen where apple pies and berry tarts are being prepared all the time", but my concern is that, clearly, many people view this site, even if they are not registered members and do not post. This means that this bit of game material, upon reaching (hopefully) applie pie quality, may become public well before the game is ready for players, thus rendering the content no longer fresh to the potential player's eye. I feel this way even about free games.. the idea is not to spoil it for the players.
If these (http://www.hapshaw.com/3D/organic.htm) had been available publicly online, say 6 months to a year before the game was on the market, it would have been a major spoiler for players. Game screenshots for packaging and advertising are carefully selected so as not to give away too much, and the sense of wonderment at new worlds is one of the major reasons that many play adventure games.
Obviously, my little modeling project is not far enough along to worry about, but I had hoped to take it through to a more or less complete form. :)
I understand that a considered decision was made about this, and I respect Caligari's right to make these choices.. I'll figure out what to do. ^_^ |
Post by frootee // Nov 8, 2007, 8:27am
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Well I wouldn't say that butterpaw! I wouldn't say you have mudpies there. Chances are once you have decided on the approach to take, and how to do it, you'll rework this, and it will look considerably different. Since this is a public forum, it would probably be a good thing to 'invite' trusted folks to review your work, and have the data on a private website or some other method of restricted access. Perhaps the folks that have offered solid suggestions here in the thread, for example.
Just a thought!
Froo |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 8, 2007, 8:57am
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butterpaw
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Of course this is a possibility, froo, but there are a couple of snags there.. one is that it takes people more time to go look somewhere else, and the other is that even if people are willing, it's effectively hi-jacking members to another location to do what they'd normally do right here. I'm loath to do that. :p
oh and re: mudpies.. I meant that in terms of development ;)... little kids and beginners make mudpies.. sometimes even quite nice mudpies.. just simple ingredients earth and water... later... with experience and know-how.. it's possible to make those apple pies and berry tarts :D I know I'm definitely at the beginning end of this .. and enjoying my mudpies as much as I have enjoyed making real life apples pies, sunflower seed bread, key lime pies, baguettes and other goodies when I was a baker at a wonderful place called 'A Southern Season'. You should see the size of the mixer... could just about get my arms around its circumference. |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 9, 2007, 2:12am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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As disconcerting as it is to say I see eye to eye with someone called Dragoneye I have to say that I share his sentiments fully.
I've had a bit of my work used by other folk - I know because they had the decency to write and ask first! I've no doubt that otherts have used my work without asking - and all I can say to that is - it's their karma!
I take a semi-Zen approach to this question and take the middle path - I post good quality works (in terms of resolution and so forth) both here and at Renderosity (and one day at my own site). However the finest quality, highest resolution versions of my work are seen by no-body but reside safely on various harddrives and back-ups at my home. I'm more than happy to share the fruits of my labours but I'll always reserve the best fruits for myself and my loved ones - after all, it's what I deserve! I like to think that what we put out is what we get back - everyone gets what they deserve in one way or another - karma
(reverts to dreamy Homer Simpson voice) Mmmmn! Mudpies! Mmmmn! |
Post by TomG // Nov 9, 2007, 2:42am
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TomG
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Hi all,
Copyright exists in a work as soon as it is created. Of course the main issue with copyright legally is PROVING when it was created to show that it was you, which is where people get into putting copyright notices on work (which doesn't magically "make" the copyright happen, as it already exists, it simply states the copyright is in place and planned to be enforced if need be), and where they get into things like mailing sealed registered post envelopes to themselves or other means of having some date stamped copy validated so they can always use that to show that they had the work created on such and such a date.
So, placing an image on the forum does not invalidate your copyright at all, you still have it. Stating it is copyright will emphasise that you are NOT placing the work in the public domain for people to use.
Of course that will not stop people from taking it and doing things with it if they so choose, just means you have legal legs to stand on (or MORE legal legs one might say) should you need to pursue anyone to get them to stop using your work.
If you are serious about only inviting certain people to view your works, then that is not a bad solution - however it is not one that we can administer here at Caligari, with each person wanting to share with a different list of "trusted" individuals. Solutions are available though - you can host the files yourself via websites or blogs or image galleries, where you can put in place password protection, or even have a "friends list only" protection. You could zip the items or turn them into installs, and again place a password protection system them, and only give out the download and password to your trusted individuals.
If you have commercial work, that might be a good route, if you want to be extra protective over it.
As noted, we can't do it here in the forums as it would be too much for us to manage. Such an approach would be best managed fully by the artist so they have total control over it.
The other solution of posting smaller sized images works too, since small images are not very much use for anything (takes quite a large image to hit print quality).
BTW 3D has an inherent advantage over other things like music and writing etc in that someone using your 2D image or your animation will NOT have a 3D file that can with the push of a button produce that exact same image or animation, and you will have. Pretty good proof of who created it :)
More tricky when it comes to sharing meshes of course - again copyright exists as soon as you make it, its just the proof of that copyright that is the issue.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 9, 2007, 7:20am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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... and other threads too.. for years I've had this cross-stitch pattern I designed myself, on my website, Eye of Horus (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ebutterpaw/cross-stitch.htm) with the pattern freely downloadable as a pdf file, which the user can print out for themselves (it's large, the patter takes about 9 pages (cross-stitch patterns tend to be much larger than the finished work), and all my images on deviantArt can be downloaded for wallpaper if anyone cares to. The prints must be purchased and since deviantArt respects my ownership, the gi-normous image files (which take me hours to edit with my poor old machine) are on file with them, so they can be printed. However, a lot of my images are freely available at 1024 x whatever... and those aren't too bad ^_^
W!ZARD - here's a special mudpie for mental delectation .. from fresh-turned earth and rainwater, decorated with tiny hemlock cones and sprigs of rosemary.. :D |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 9, 2007, 8:30am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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TomG, that's a good explanation, and I certainly understand that additional services to the forum would require extra admin-ing. From a business point of view, sensible choices have to be made.
This is one of the best forums I've seen, and am happy to be participating here. I have no desire to limit participation any more than absolutely necessary, so I'll try to make good decisions about how much of the game content I share.
^_^ |
Post by Jack Edwards // Nov 9, 2007, 9:46am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Tom,
My idea shouldn't be difficult to implement, its to have a non-public folder in the forum that is visible to forum members, but not to the general public. That would provide a lot of the protection that members are looking for.
I understand Caligari's position though. ;)
-Jack. |
Post by frootee // Nov 9, 2007, 9:54am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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True Jack.
At one point the Scriptorium was not open to the public; when other folks got interested in scripting the decision was made to open that forum to the public.
I guess one issue would be notifying all active users via email.
Froo |
Post by splinters // Nov 9, 2007, 10:28am
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splinters
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I like that idea, I have the utmost faith in the forum members here but such a 'limit' would restrict casual 'passers by' from just grabbing and idea or image with no regard for the damage it may cause...:o |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 9, 2007, 10:56am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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I like that idea, I have the utmost faith in the forum members here but such a 'limit' would restrict casual 'passers by' from just grabbing and idea or image with no regard for the damage it may cause...:o
I feel the same, and that has been my concern. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Nov 10, 2007, 9:49am
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Hmmm... wonder if there's a possibility to create a closed truePlace meeting room for collaborative but "sensitive" work.
Kinda like signing up to use a conference room? Use the same room for various groups but by a schedule and member list. Anyone could use the room but they'd have to coordinate in advance to reserve it.
Granted, not all have tS7.5 but anyone can get truePlay. It is advantageous to have voice conversations from time to time. As mentioned above, other viable solutions exist too.
Might be tough to manage the username/password stuff though. Kinda puts a load on the Caligari staff too. I do like the use of the built in collaborative capabilities though and voice tends to get the message across better than email (extra cues in voice inflection helps lots). |
Post by frootee // Nov 10, 2007, 10:38am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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well, at some point in the (hopefully near) future, Roman has mentioned that 'affordable' rented shared spaces will be available. Not sure how much they will cost but that may be a possibility. Rent one, and invite only those you want there for a live showing.
No one will know the portal number till you tell them. Then delete the objects when you are done.
Froo |
Post by Nez // Nov 12, 2007, 12:00am
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Granted, not all have tS7.5 but anyone can get truePlay.
Not entirely true - I only have internet access on my work pc but no admin rights and no chance of persuading the admins to get it added; I tried to install it on my home pc (which has no internet access, but in the hope that I could view exported scenes) and couldn't install it as I'm still on Win98... so not quite 'anyone' I'm afraid... :( |
Post by butterpaw // Nov 13, 2007, 8:09am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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I'm sorry you don't have that access, Nez. :(
I still have a Windows 98 machine, with all my most favorite older games on it. You know, the ones that don't run so well on anything newer? :D
I even have Endorfun! I wonder if anybody else has heard of that one.
^_^
Edit - ermm... pardon my blooper.. greycells turning to goo.. oh my.. I did mean Nez :D |
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