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Prediction - BEOWULF - A Huge Flop
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Prediction - BEOWULF - A Huge Flop // Roundtable
Post by TomG // Nov 16, 2007, 12:02pm
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TomG
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Yes I really liked Westworld too :) Been a long time since I have watched it, but I remember being surprised last time I did that it had aged much better than I had expected.
And of course it remains relevant, as we still like to create fantasy worlds for ourselves where we can go and "be" something else. Right now we mostly do that in the virtual worlds on the computers, with realism coming from ever more powerful graphics cards and rendering engines, though there are those who re-enact battles and similar, taking a more physical approach to acting out the role.
Were they to invent robots capable of such complex behavior, I am sure the concept of something like Westworld would arise sooner or later, the chance to act out what you used to play in a video game.
Wasn't it written by Michael Criton, or am I forgetting since it is so long ago?
Tom |
Post by jayr // Nov 16, 2007, 1:35pm
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It was either writen by him or directed by him
edit: just checked imdb and it was both! |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 17, 2007, 1:07am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Westworld - I've always thought that movie was way ahead of it's time. Yul Brunner was perfectly cast as the rogue robot.
Interestingly, Westworld was another 'formulaic' monster movie - part of it's success and it's creepiness comes from the combining of two familiar formulae - the monster movie and the cowboy movie.
The monster that looks human but isn't, technology turning against it's makers, even bad guys wearing black - combined with a few good guys winning out over apparently unbeatable odds - these are all very familiar formulae. It's incedibly difficult to come up with a truly 'new' story - only new treatments of the same old stories... like a 3d cgi version of Beowulf. |
Post by Humdinger // Nov 18, 2007, 6:14pm
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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from www.boxofficemojo.com
Domestic: $28,100,000 62.3%
+ Foreign: $17,000,000 37.7%
= Worldwide: $45,100,000
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more than respectable.
Though budget was 150 million without adding in marketing.
the '300' pulled in 72 million on first weekend by comparison
...
BUT !!!
The key will be the next week drop off followed by third week. Stay Tuned!
I did not see the film this weekend. As I would not want to effect my pridiction. Other than in my favor ! :D
Also i did not take into account the foreign box office which this film has the huge potential appeal for and I am sure the producers were counting on.
Throw that in and the weekend was a success as it also came it a number 1.
I am on the ropes...! Will I be taken down...?!??!?!
The suspense!!!
The Drama !!!
:D |
Post by Humdinger // Nov 18, 2007, 6:17pm
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Humdinger
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Ah Westword !!
You all got me on the hunt this weekend at video rental retailers!!
:jumpy:
Sadly..too old..no luck. Really sad,,,fantastic flick !!
I am more and more thinking about going with ON-Demand Movies with my cable company. |
Post by Humdinger // Nov 18, 2007, 6:24pm
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Humdinger
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By the way..
The Forbin Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project
I am providing the link to post some information.
But forget it all. If you have never seen this movie (I caught it one night on American Movie Classics AMC) it is truly on par with any great sci-fi thriller.
Yeah the effects are weak beyond weak, but once the computer starts to 'talk' this movie launches into some pretty 'heady' stuff regarding artificial intelligence and computer networks.
Watch it..but mostly listen...track the events and most importantly listen to the closing statement from the machine from the machine's perspective.
WOW!
That is one damn well scripted film.
You go now!!! |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 23, 2007, 3:04am
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W!ZARD
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I see Sci Fi Weekly's reviewer gave the movie an A- - you can read his review here (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/screen/sfw17397.html). Once again the 3d aspect draws a lot of positive remarks. Anyone here seen it yet? |
Post by 3dfrog // Nov 24, 2007, 5:00pm
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I finally saw beowulf tonight. I tried to see it last night but it was sold out. Got in tonight even though the theatre was packed. I lucked out and got a good seat.
The theatre I saw it in had it in digital 3d. I didn't know it was in digital 3d so that was a huge plus for me. I'm a sucker for things popping off the screen at me. So I was doubly excited to see it as I was before.
When the movie first opened I was unimpressed with the motion tracking on the characters. As everyone predicted they were pretty stiff and lifeless. I thought oh crap this is gonna be unbearable. But it didn't take long to get absorbed into the story and the scenery and the modeling and texturing which was really great. A little while into it I was completely absorbed in the movie and didn't give much thought to the motion capture, it became more believable. Then every once in a while a scene would come across as unlively as a poorly done poser picture and I'd remember I was watching motion capture, but in the grand scheme I was pleased.
I enjoyed the monsters animation the most and the scenes where the character did things beyond mere human capability. Some great action sequences in my opinion.
So it wasn't the perfect cg masterpiece or anything, but it was a lot closer than final fantasy movie or polar express. I would love to see a piece like this applying the principles of animation to the characters with actual animators doing the work. I think if they let the animators at these models they could make it more believable for the medium. I don't think that actors in body suits with ping pong balls and markers on their face is necessarily the best tool.
Well, anyway, I'm glad to see an all cg movie aimed at adults. Maybe I'm just a little biased to animation done by animators. But I enjoyed the movie anyway and I think the audience enjoyed it too and that's what really counts. |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 29, 2007, 6:25pm
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W!ZARD
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Well, anyway, I'm glad to see an all cg movie aimed at adults. Maybe I'm just a little biased to animation done by animators. But I enjoyed the movie anyway and I think the audience enjoyed it too and that's what really counts.
So not a huge flop just a bit floppy in places? Thanks for the review Frog and I'm glad you enjoyed the movie.
Re animation by animators versus animation by motion capture - I'm always disappointed that this is so often such an 'either/or' issue. I've long thought that the two methods combined would give the best results. For example, a connecting shot of, say, the hero walking along a hall could be far more cheaply and effectively made using mocap. In contrast, a high action set-peice where the hero is fighting or otherwise performing awesome feats would benefit from the work of skilled animators to lift the action from digitised-footage-of-stuntman-wearing-ping-pong-balls into sublime cg animated art.
In the extremely unlikely event that I'm ever called on to make a cg movie with a reasonable budget you can rest assured I'd be utilising both animation techniques!! I'd use mocap for blocking out the action (and 'humanising' the movement of characters) as the base and let the animators add the extra touches and flourishes only hands on animation can create. But then if I ruled the world I'd fix lots of other things too!!:D:D |
Post by Burnart // Nov 29, 2007, 7:36pm
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I was interested in seeing this - there's a 3D digital cinema about an hours drive away from my place and I like the idea of supporting a cg movie for adults - but then I saw some ads for it on the telly and to be perfectly honest it really put me off. Surely they didn't put the worst examples of the animation in the promos? Might just wait until it hits DVD.
The last thing I saw in 3D digital was Monster House - it was ok - perhaps mocap works better with stylised toonish figures. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Nov 29, 2007, 8:04pm
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Saw Beowulf this past weekend but in a regular theatre instead of a 3D IMAX.
You could tell some of the scenes were gratuitously created for the 3D theaters such as when Beowulf first meets the soldier on a horse who promptly sticks a spear very near his face.
The style was actually pretty interesting but yes you can see the difference between actual actors and CG hyper-real characters.
Most of the folks at work who had seen it were commenting on how it won't be long at all before you won't need actors at all. Guess their impressions aren't as tainted by the 3D artist's eye for perfection. The waterfall in the beginning is apparently quite impressive in the 3D theater.
It did have Angelina Jolie in it so how bad could it be? CG version was well done though I'm not sure how they squeaked by with a PG-13 rating. :D
Actually when I watched the trailer on-line I didn't notice that it was CG owing to the small dimensions and compression. In some ways it was a treat to find out the movie was completely CG.
Thing that bothers me more than the "stiffness" of characters has to do with all that impossibly over-the-top special effects where people are so superhuman that there's not much of a sense of tension in the plot. Lucas once said that special effects without a story is a boring thing. Ironically, I think he forgot this a tad bit when making SW I-III.
Even lord of the rings had a few over the top moments not justified by the setting and characters. Like for instance when Orlando Bloom's character shoots arrows into an "elephunt" and then climbs them in a very "beyond olympic gymnist" sort of way. I know he was supposed to be an elf and all but if he were that good once, why isn't he that tough in the rest of the movie too?
Then there's that whole pearl harbor movie thing where the P-40s flew so close to the ground that their props would have hit and they'd have died for certain. Maybe that's why movies are magical... :) |
Post by 3dfrog // Nov 30, 2007, 10:30am
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Yes burnart, I forgot about monster house. That was incredibly well done motion capture, possibly the best example of it yet.
Here is a cheap facial mocap app making a splash in the animation master community right now:
http://www.zigncreations.com/
It should technically be able to work with ts. Mr. bones should like this one. |
Post by frootee // Nov 30, 2007, 10:55am
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We bought it at DeepDiscountDVD.com I believe.
Oh yeah! They may still have it too!
Ah Westword !!
You all got me on the hunt this weekend at video rental retailers!!
:jumpy:
Sadly..too old..no luck. Really sad,,,fantastic flick !!
I am more and more thinking about going with ON-Demand Movies with my cable company. |
Post by splinters // Nov 30, 2007, 11:11am
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splinters
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The more I see of this in magazine articles such as this month's 3D World, the more I actually want to see the movie...:D |
Post by Matski007 // Nov 30, 2007, 4:20pm
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Beowulf was awesome !!! saw it last week at the Bradford Imax theatre and was blown away, i would not have watched it at a normal cinema though, the fact that it was in 3d at the imax really added to it. a definate must see |
Post by xmanflash // Dec 1, 2007, 2:39am
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I saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it..
Weirdly, sometimes the animation was hyper real - indistinguishable from reality, especially with some of the character close-ups and sometimes really poor (the motion of the horse galloping off looked so poorly done I wondered why it was in there)
But the point is not whether it was real or not but whether it was an enjoyable movie, and I have to say i thought it was excellent.. if quite grisly - but definitely not for the kids though! |
Post by Burnart // Dec 2, 2007, 2:51pm
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Contrary to my earlier statement I'm now thinking of going to see it - a local critic who's opinion I've come to trust said despite its short comings its worth seeing particularly if you have access to a 3d cinema. Maybe this coming weekend... |
Post by Humdinger // Dec 5, 2007, 6:11am
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Never give in..never surrender..
So I am half right. :)
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=beowulf.htm
So in the US the Box office petered out after first week.
26 mil
18 mil
6 mil
weeks 1-3
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But the foreign box office is actually higher for a total to date of 144 million
Far from a bust...though I still stand behind my prediction regarding US Market.
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Will not see it till it hits video as a political statement.. :)
If I want Hires- video game action i will fire up my PS3.
As for any cheap 3d effects..they are just that cheap 3d effects..stuff a sword in the camera without 3d and people will still react/ lean back.
Big deal..more food for the noobs !:D |
Post by Burnart // Dec 5, 2007, 1:18pm
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Burnart
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Most big budget films have more in common with theme park rides than great art. 3d projection is part of that ride mentality - and I like it! Why aren't more films in 3d? If it makes a dodgy film a bit more interesting, adds to the thrills and spills - great. |
Post by Matski007 // Dec 5, 2007, 4:18pm
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Man, I hate critics (although technically I am being hypocritical by critisizing critics). I disagree with Humdinger, the film doesnt pull off loads of cheesy 3D effects purely to gratify the audience, and its a shame for you to believe that such a medium is being used this way. Its simply adds a level of realism to the film, placing you within it, it doesnt constantly shove swords in your face like all the old 3D films did, dont knock it til youve tried it, you cant possibly make assumptions if you havent seen it, and critics can only speak for themselves and can never predict what a single person may find in a film as gratifying. |
Post by Humdinger // Dec 6, 2007, 3:25am
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Man, I hate critics (although technically I am being hypocritical by critisizing critics). I disagree with Humdinger, the film doesnt pull off loads of cheesy 3D effects purely to gratify the audience, and its a shame for you to believe that such a medium is being used this way. Its simply adds a level of realism to the film, placing you within it, it doesnt constantly shove swords in your face like all the old 3D films did, dont knock it til youve tried it, you cant possibly make assumptions if you havent seen it, and critics can only speak for themselves and can never predict what a single person may find in a film as gratifying.
I never claimed to be a critic..just the ability to predict the future ! ;)
My only mistake was being the 'american' that I am I forgot the rest of the world! :D
I will eventually see it, on video. I am sure it will be on Blu-ray at which point l may feel inspired to post a review.
Funny when I was around 15 someone said 'You know..once you turn 30 they stop making movies that will interest you.'
Thought my cousin was crazy...crazy like a fox I guess!
-though there have been a few..most recently the 300 was great. |
Post by xmanflash // Dec 6, 2007, 3:39am
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I saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it..
I saw it again, but this time in 3D - wow - what a difference - a lot of the shots actually made sense (in that they were either sticking a spear in your face or dripping blood on you etc) but I have to say that if you can see it in 3D the experience is so much greater, although the story impact is no different. |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 8, 2007, 3:49am
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W!ZARD
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My only mistake was being the 'american' that I am I forgot the rest of the world! :D
Ouch! On behalf of the rest of the world I'd just like to remind you that we're all still here and we haven't forgotten you!!
Hmmn - America - isn't that that odd place just to the left of Jamaica?:p;):D |
Post by Burnart // Dec 9, 2007, 12:21pm
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Reminds me of an old joke here in Australia - Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks of them - mainly because they have yet to grasp the concept of "the rest of the world"! Americans probably tell the same joke and replace the nationality with "French" - New Zealander's probably say Australians. Sound about right W!zard? :D |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 9, 2007, 6:16pm
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Tell us another one! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_American_ancestries) |
Post by Humdinger // Dec 10, 2007, 3:47am
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Humdinger
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Hmmn - America - isn't that that odd place just to the left of Jamaica?:p;):D[/COLOR]
I WISH !!!! ;)
Latest Numbers:
Domestic: $75,983,000 50.3%
+ Foreign: $75,000,000 49.7%
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= Worldwide: $150,983,000
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Only 4 million US this week..done is done.
NOTE: Foriegn numbers often take a few more days to come out. I am assuming it will jump to 90 million or so from the current 75.
But also assume 50 -75 million for promotion on top of the Production budget. |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 11, 2007, 9:51am
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W!ZARD
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Reminds me of an old joke here in Australia - Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks of them - mainly because they have yet to grasp the concept of "the rest of the world"! Americans probably tell the same joke and replace the nationality with "French" - New Zealander's probably say Australians. Sound about right W!zard? :D
LOL - that depends on who is winning the cricket or the rugby (usually you Aussies)! On the rare occasions when the Aussies aren't beating us we join the Americans and blame it on the French!!
So Humdinger - is Beowulf a huge flop or just a small flopette? I guess it depends on how and where we measure it - personally I suspect it will do very nicely when it gets to DVD.... |
Post by foleypro // Dec 11, 2007, 10:28am
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Whats great about any 3D flick is the ability to make Massive money off of some minor Expenditures...
Spend a Million make 150 million...
The general Public will eat up any 3D flick because they are amazed at what we as a community do...
If the story is good you will make money..
:cool::banana: |
Post by transient // Dec 11, 2007, 8:45pm
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Personally, I think movie makers are missing the obvious. A full-blown 3d, R rated Aliens sequel or the equivalent would probably pull the crowds they want.
At the moment they're scared to even make an M rated 3d movie because of Hollywood's paranoia about getting the family market. Unfortunately, I think kids want to see talking animals, and big kids (like me) want Blade Runner 3d. Something in-between like Final Fantasy probably won't ever cut it at the box office.
Saw 2 and 3 made as much money as Beowulf currently has with a production budget of $14 million between them. And these are b movies.
I haven't seen Beowulf yet, but I'll definitely check it out, if only for the 3d goodness. |
Post by jayr // Dec 12, 2007, 4:01am
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i'm with you on a 'Bladerunner' or 'Alien 5' 3D transient, i'm always impressed by the japanese outlook on animation. To them it's just another way to make a film, in europe and america a lot of people still see animation as 'a kids thing' even though anime and manga is big business in the west, hopefully it'll change soon. |
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