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The Power of Vray
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
The Power of Vray // Roundtable
Post by hemulin // Dec 16, 2007, 7:40am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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I've just been looking through the CGSociety showcase gallery and noticed this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=573528&page=1&pp=15) stunning piece of architectural modelling and rendering. I find that the photorealism of the render is stunning. I know it has nothing to do with trueSpace however it is rendered in Vray. If you want to have a look at it click here. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=573528&page=1&pp=15) |
Post by prodigy // Dec 16, 2007, 9:12am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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My eye see: a Vray, over few pictures, Dof effect using Richard Rossenman Photoshop Plugin..
To be honest, nothing impressive.. Very nice image comp, but IMO the trees and grass are a pictures, in some details are photomontage and mixed with Dof efffect..
Im starting to see many guys showing pictures with photoshop filters, and they sais are 3D.. Never believe a good or amazing "render" is 3d render untill he show a wireframe..;)
Trust me.. |
Post by RAYMAN // Dec 16, 2007, 9:22am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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To be honest, nothing impressive.. Very nice image comp, but IMO the trees and grass are a pictures, in some details are photomontage and mixed with Dof efffect..
Augusto I dont think so !
It very well is Onyx tree ..... thats an amazing little app.
I´ve seen some renders in the Kerkythea forum with
onyx and they all turn out that way ! |
Post by prodigy // Dec 16, 2007, 9:43am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Rayman.. I only take off my hat when i see a good wireframe.. Only with wireframes..
I see tons of fakes... TONS! people telling SEE my good 3d?? and i think on my own.. WTF... that's a picture with a photoshop efect and few cubes!! MY GOOD!
Real pictures with some Exagerated effects to fake 3D..
Well it happend here on our mothly image gallery.. someone post a DRAW!!! telling was a truespace render.. a DRAW!!
So.. i know how much time takes make 3D.. is not something to put render and that's all..
You know how much time you need to create something like that??? years.. and with the actual technology no computer can generate such image quality.. Less.. many pictures as he post.. ;)
FInal fantasy.. Shrek 3.. amazing stuff, with the most high end technology and sofware development, and nothing can be compared to this pictures.. why?? cos we cant compare 3D with reality.. and this in my own oppinion are pictures take from reality with dof effects with layers .. |
Post by RAYMAN // Dec 16, 2007, 9:49am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Yes that would have taken a long time to render in 3d
and a very good setup !You are right... but I have seen
some amazing stuff in 3d ! |
Post by prodigy // Dec 16, 2007, 10:02am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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PLus.. i dare to say on the last picture.. (Night with some lights and trees..) are not 3D.. even the house..
And i can show why i have this conclusion ;)
Must to go to a child birthday im back in a few minutes ;) |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 16, 2007, 10:26am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I clipped a portion of that scene and put it on an unsubdivided cube.
Is it modeled or is it memorex? :D
I too, would like to see the wire. Look at the moss on the bottom of the tree towards the front of the image. That's God's handiwork, not 3D :D |
Post by Steinie // Dec 16, 2007, 10:59am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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This tree is obviously fake. Either he used composite renderings or not most of the work looks put together. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 16, 2007, 11:20am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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This tree is obviously fake. Either he used composite renderings or not most of the work looks put together.
Good eye, Steinmeister!
Looks he mapped some photos on some cylinders, maybe "bump mapped it" as well. |
Post by Changa // Dec 16, 2007, 11:26am
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Changa
Total Posts: 187
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I want to refer to words of wisdom of Nikolay Georgiev from Caligary's One Man Show. There is one truth to keep in mind: no one knows what is happening behind the scenes! This means I feel free to use any kind of tools or tricks to make my animation look better. After all, everything is done in the name of His / Her Royal Majesty, the VIEWER. Only what they see matters, not what I see or know as an animator. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 16, 2007, 11:34am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Good words Changa.
My motto is "If there is a way to distort the original works of a scene, send it to me and it will be unrecognizable as well as being 'place mat' ready for catching soup spillage." :D |
Post by kena // Dec 16, 2007, 2:52pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I would say it is and is not 3-D - It looks like 3-d painting. You plug in what you want for the plants and landscape and the program does the rest for you. Then you add a few boxes and texture them and you have a "3-D" world. I've come across some programs that will do that.
The program this person used is called OnyxTree. It's a very good program for this kind of thing, but I really don't know how well it would work with Truespace... He has it for 3DSMax. |
Post by splinters // Dec 16, 2007, 3:14pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Sorry Hemulin, I am not really that impressed by these images. I have seen some truly excellent Vray stuff...:o |
Post by hemulin // Dec 16, 2007, 11:14pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Sorry guys. I really thought this was something. I guess I will have to look deeper next time. :( |
Post by parva // Dec 16, 2007, 11:21pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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it is something an I like it :)
Impressed or not, finally it's the personal opinion.
Sure with a wireframe shot it would be easier to tell whats photo and what 3d.
I think the trees in the foreground are 3d, the ones in the background photo, but I can be wrong.
Even if the pictures have photo parts it would be a great combo between 3d and 2d. It is much more difficult to combine a photo with 3d elements and to let it look natural.
btw. my personal vray master is Marek Denko (http://marekdenko.net/) :) |
Post by Délé // Dec 17, 2007, 4:56am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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btw. my personal vray master is Marek Denko
Wow! Now that is very impressive work! That "Street of Memories" piece is incredibly realistic. Especially animated in his demo reel. Very inspiring. :) |
Post by prodigy // Dec 17, 2007, 5:19am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Impressed or not, finally it's the personal opinion.
totally agree..
Hemu, you do a great job sharing with us these renders, and that's cool from you! :)
I only show my skepticism.. i see many fakes.. At this point is very very dificult to see what is real and not.. and many guys on the net are posting pictures with some photoshop effects and people think sometimes are real renders..
Wireframe is the key to see if its a real work or just fake.
Overwise, I love to see the wires from Marek Denko.. that shows me how many details must to add to get a nice render and how good can it look vray renders..
Looking these wires is where i learn 3d.. ;) |
Post by parva // Dec 17, 2007, 7:14am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Regarding to the theme "Onyxtree".
That would be a great plugin for truespace. I know no tree generator which has a truespace plugin.
Onyx would be really great maybe even better as Xfrog. For Xfrog there are plugins for cinema4d and maya but trueSpace, I know no plugin :( |
Post by Emma // Dec 17, 2007, 10:55am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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Wireframe is the key to see if its a real work or just fake
Well, think that is only half the way, from my oppinion it is the sum of everything that ends in a level that you are able to handle the tools. And tools are all programs, but also your imagination through which you create something. Take for example following wire frame of the scenery which doesn't really show much, Bobby, a cube he stays on and a sphere he looks at.
10126
Adding now something to it you may get something like this for example
10128
well, this maid not be the taste of everybody so perhaps add some more again to get the following picture
10127
One ore the other will be liked more or less, and that is the main focus in first place. 90% tools I used was trueSpace and the capabilites it offered, I would only put 10 % for rendering with VRay. So following your arguments would mean this is not really a VRay example.
So what I want to say with this is, that there is a dependency of all parts, no matter if photoshop, photos or more is envolved. So the argument line should always be, "oh, looks intersting, oh yes, needed truespace and VRay and ....., how good we have them all !" So perhaps it would be a better custom if people would say "I used a,b,c but mainly d"
So Sorry guys. I really thought this was something. I guess I will have to look deeper next time shouldn`t be said cause no reason to excuse,
-the work was done with different tools, OK,
-whoever created it put some of his imagination into it, OK,
-and people liked it, also OK
perhaps the "tree creator" expressed himself wrong by "suggesting" to strong it was done "only" with VRay.
Oh yes, before I forget to mention :D :D, my samples above are for sure a fake :D :D as I'm using multi objects materials, or did you notice that in the wire frame ;) |
Post by kena // Dec 17, 2007, 2:25pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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perhaps the "tree creator" expressed himself wrong by "suggesting" to strong it was done "only" with VRay.
But he didn't
And now, some tech spec:
3DsMax, Vray (1.5), AE and Onyxtree (i'm in love with it BTW...) |
Post by trueBlue // Dec 17, 2007, 3:01pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Well she does explain her process with included wireframes on post #47.
Wow 6GB of memory. |
Post by prodigy // Dec 17, 2007, 3:58pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Ok .. How many of you sais this is are not a vray render??
10130
10131
But the truth is this renders are from a very known digital illustrator (Imo one of the best ) from CG architect.. He use Vray too, this are very realistic at my point of view but it still looking as 3D..
So tellme emma.. let's do a game..
I have a question with some options..
The grass was..
created with some 3d software?
created by photomontage...
he paint the grass.. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 17, 2007, 4:01pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Photomontage I think.
I have some grass just like that behind my shed. :D |
Post by trueBlue // Dec 17, 2007, 6:41pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I have a question with some options..
The grass was..
created with some 3d software?
created by photomontage...
he paint the grass..
Vraydisplacement? |
Post by prodigy // Dec 17, 2007, 7:33pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Nup...
The right answer is.....
No one of this option is valid..
Cos this is not a render.. I lie ;) |
Post by Ambrose // Dec 17, 2007, 8:29pm
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Hehe Progdigy
I somehow felt that one was comming ;)
I like your house though :D
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by trueBlue // Dec 17, 2007, 9:49pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I guess maybe you did not see my previous post. Hummm...let me try it this way:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4839310&postcount=47 |
Post by Plum // Dec 17, 2007, 10:10pm
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Plum
Total Posts: 39
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Realistic? If you want realistic looking, look at this guy: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=521073
I've seen quite a few "really REALLY good" renders...but only a handful (re: less than 5) shots that I had a difficult time believing were actual 3d and not an actual picture.
Buildings and 'nature' are fairly easy when compaired to the human form; humans are really good at 'filling in the blanks' for everything we see and hear...but we are hard-wired to notice stuff about other humans.
To the original render: nice render, but stil has a long way to go to truly fake people out. I also am a firm believer that lighting and texturing makes the MOST difference in a 3d scene; modeling is secondary. Vray, Mental Ray, Manta, Renderman....if you don't have the lighting and textures down, it won't matter. :) |
Post by prodigy // Dec 18, 2007, 3:36am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I guess maybe you did not see my previous post. Hummm...let me try it this way:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4839310&postcount=47
OK, now i can take my hat off.. and tell im very impressed.. :p
Its unbelievable these trees are GC... im stunning
My appologies.. i think im out of date :D |
Post by Emma // Dec 18, 2007, 7:41am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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Sorry to answer so late prodigy, but I'm on the other side of the globe.
To be honest, I would have believed it is a render but with real gras copied into it.:o |
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