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Help with boolean
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Help with boolean // Roundtable
Post by Paul Boland // Jan 30, 2008, 10:16am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Hi Folks.
I've a fairly detailed starship model that I am trying to boolean out a rather large number of windows into. For the most part it works great but there are parts of the model where only some of the windows are cut out, the others aren't. I've experienced boolean problems like this in the past. Large complex model with many booleans taking place, some of the cut outs don't happen.
Anyone got any tips on how to successfully boolean out loads of cuts into a complex model? |
Post by hultek43 // Jan 30, 2008, 10:29am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Have you tried to group or boolean the drill objects and then boolean subtract in 'one shot'? |
Post by TomG // Jan 30, 2008, 10:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Yes this can be a problem. Solutions unfortunately are not the same in all cases, and a matter of trial and error.
First suggestion, try and do it without booleans (this is one of the reasons I have seen booleans as a modeling method referred to as "evil"!). You can use Bevel or Poly Draw maybe to add the faces and then sweep.
Other suggestions with booleans is to try adjusting the numbers in the booleans dialog. Try cutting each window one by one. Try it all as one group. Try it one by one, starting from one end and working to the other, but then try it the other way too (sometimes it depends on the order of the booleans). Add more detail where you are booleaning, perhaps quad dividing the affected faces (or the whole model).
Try adjusting the position of the windows to ensure there are no nasty overlaps (the edge of the window overlaps the edge of a face by a tiny fraction). Try moving the windows just a little in any direction, that can make a difference. Try scaling them up or down a little, again it might make a difference.
Try splitting the spaceship into smaller sections and then booleaning from those (so chop it up). Try a boolean add, and then you can edit later to give the desired indentation once you have the shape of window defined by the boolean.
And so on and so forth... option 1, try to avoid booleans, is best though, if you can do it.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Paul Boland // Jan 30, 2008, 10:47am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Wow, thanks! There's a lot to take on there. I'll give these a try and see how I fair. Thanks. |
Post by rrf // Jan 30, 2008, 11:12am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I don't know if this idea would help (or even if it's a good one) if you had, say, hundreds of windows, I would think about 'cheating' a bit, and make the window polys transparent (or nearly so) via materials - that way no problems with booleans.
Hope this helps,
rf |
Post by TomG // Jan 30, 2008, 11:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Let us know how you get on and which solution works (if any) - oh and don't forget to share a shot of the spaceship you are working on too ;)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 30, 2008, 6:36pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Boolean operations work on an either/or principle (as I understand it) and can get confused when the math adds up to a recurring decimal or a non-specific result - which is a complicated way of saying they don't always work as expected.:D
One trick that can work - depending on the meshes involved and how the math all works out - is to do your object subtraction (preferably on a copy of your spaceship) and then apply a layer of subdivision to the resultant mesh. trueSpace will add geometry where required for the SDS process which can sometimes help with dodgy geometry from a messy boolean. Remember to subtract the SDS layer afterward.
It might help, it might not. If trueSpace refuses to subdivide the mesh then you definitely have some dodgy geometry somewhere.
You can also try subdividing then unsubdividing your meshes before trying the subtraction - this will give you some indication as to whether or not your mesh is ok in the first place.
A successful Boolean can be a thing of beauty but sometimes the numbers just don't crunch correctly and you spend more time cleaning up the mesh than you would have spent simply modeling the shape without using Booleans.
HTH |
Post by Paul Boland // Jan 31, 2008, 9:45am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Umm... I spent a few hours on this last night but ended up with mixed results. I managed to boolean all the windows out of the saucer part of the starship, but the hub at the back... Not a hope in hell! That was a complete no go. All those plain faces were also covered with windows. I tried a number of methods to get them out but no matter what, only some of them would work, and then after a bit more boolean elsewhere, the windows I already had cut out would disappear.
For this model, the windows in the saucer section were the most important and I'm delighted with the results there, so I've removed all the windows from the back hub and will find a different way to decorate that part of the ship, I have a few ideas in mind.
Here is a render of the ship as it stands at the moment.
http://www.iol.ie/~pkb/Spaceship.jpg
The only texture that is currently applied there that is final is the necelles green lights, I really like how that looks, particulary when close to it, and the laser emitors (the grey bobular objects). Everything else has still to be set in stone.
Oh, one thing, perhaps someone can give me an answer to this...
I want to place the name of the ship on that slanted hull face on the front of the saucer section. Now, if I apply a hull texture to the whole ship using Paint Whole Object, how do I add the name here without disturbing the applied texture to that particular face? What I initially planning on doing was using the Text Tool and make the name actual raised text. I could also apply it as an alpha-channelled texture to a rectangular polygon floating just above that slanted surface. But is there a better way to do it? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 31, 2008, 11:19am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I could also apply it as an alpha-channelled texture to a rectangular polygon floating just above that slanted surface. But is there a better way to do it?
Yes I mentioned it in my private mail.
Did this in 15 minutes incl render ! So its realy worth to look at as
long as it is still around ! |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 31, 2008, 11:33am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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As you can see its shelled too and has real3d typo |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 4, 2008, 9:00am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Thanks, Rayman. Impressive, though I think you cheated... Looks like you created one disc level and then copied and resized. I can see the windows getting smaller as you move up the saucer section.
;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 4, 2008, 9:10am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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wouldnt have taken much longer you are right you caught me
with that ..... hahaha.
Would have taken about 10 minutes longer.
The reason I showed it to you was how easy it does
tjhe letters on the box.
That app wins hands down on anything out there in speed.
Try it out yourself (there is still a betafor download)!Its the best investment I´ve made
apart from Photoshop (and Ts of c. ! )
Peter |
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