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Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft? // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 11:16am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Mmmm, intersting news about Caligari becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft. Once the news has settled in, what does that mean for tS?
Is it to become integrated into the Microsoft software and cease to be a 3D app as we know it.
I sense that this is good news for Roman and the team but amidst all the celebration could we have some news on what this means for the future if tS as an app we have come to know and love.
Is it to be changed beyond all recognition by Microsoft; UI and all, or are they simply making use of the workspace technology?
Maybe I am missing something but I see 3DS Max, Alias, Bryce, Poser etc. etc. being bought up by large companies and then slowly integrated into their infastructure until it is no longer recognisable.
I am a little concerned really and would like further details if possible...:( |
Post by Nephos // Feb 6, 2008, 11:32am
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Nephos
Total Posts: 59
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WOW! I have been lurking for months now but I had to log on to say Congrats and and with this "real" shot in the arm I will be keeping a close eye here. I don't see this as bad at all. This will be a HUGE LEAP. ...Now TS 8 I will keep an eye on.....
Nephos |
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 11:38am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Perhaps I need to read up on this more but Virtual Earth seems a lot like Google Earth. I can see where satellite data would be useful but I cannot understand the link with tS technology. I mean, just how close up are you able to go with Virtual Earth?
I am a little shocked but even more than that I am curious about what all this means for tS as an app that I will use for my work...:o
I should also point out that I did not say this was a bad thing...just that I had concerns. That is always the case without the full 'facts'. |
Post by Nephos // Feb 6, 2008, 12:03pm
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Nephos
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Take a look here:
http://maps.live.com/help/en-us/ve3dviadownload.htm
This will most likely be the direction Caligari will be heading on that end. I strongly feel that is just a piece of it. TS will have more capital, larger developement resources and, larger partnership base to be able to expand its reach.... all very good things. I don't think a need to worry.
By the way luv your work Splinters :)
Nephos |
Post by TomG // Feb 6, 2008, 12:12pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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You may also be interested to read some info from the Microsoft side, in their blog:
http://virtualearth.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!2BBC66E99FDCDB98!11432.entry
As you can see, he has known trueSpace for some time :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2008, 12:26pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Well its like everything in life !
did you know that computers are like airconditioners !
They stop working properly when you open windows....:D
Joke by side !
well first of all I hope that now it is a part of Microsoft
I expect a fast patch for the Vista-TS -TP sound bug !
Some of us who were with us the past years knew about
the development Ts was heading to ....some of the people
didnt like it and moved and some (us included ) stayed on board.
Is it a surprise for me ..... NO !
from many discussions and Emails with some of the former Ts ers
its not !
Will Truespace be what it was ? I dont think so !
Will it be better ? depends opon what we want it to look like.
Is it a bad move ? I dont think so !
3d will be more part of our life and Microsoft knows that !
What has started 3 years ago with shared spaces will be continued
and realtime display too ! We see the same thing with Nvidia buyout and
mental ......Things are going to move into realtime.....fast .... and
3d will become mainstream!:)
Peter |
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 12:34pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Thanks for those links guys, with the first one, Nephos, I can see how tS created content would integrate with the existing Virtual Earth software.
Glad you like my work Nephos, not sure exactly which work you refer to but I do wonder what the future UI will look like...;)
Still, I am curious to see how the program will develop in terms of modelling and rendering features (other than the realtime stuff)... |
Post by Steinie // Feb 6, 2008, 12:57pm
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Well Caligari has deeper pockets now that is for sure. I wonder how much emphasis will be toward our needs as an artist vs. MicroSoft's competition with Google. As a long time tS user I have a gut feeling my days of loving the software as we know it are almost over. I don't love any software Microsoft has ever written, period. They don't have a clue about a nice usable UI. So why not take over a Company that does?
I'm happy for Caligari and it's employees. I sure hope I'm proven wrong. |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2008, 1:05pm
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RAYMAN
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Still, I am curious to see how the program will develop in terms of modelling and rendering features (other than the realtime stuff)...
Do I hear realtime stuff !
I think thats the future........ what do you want more then VRAY
LW ..... Dribble .... and when Jack is finished .....Kerky(you can use it now too).Ts in the next release is pretty clear.... workspace side tools....
model side tools gone ! Surprise ?
Realtime render is coming strong... Caligari is working on it...... Nvidia is
working on it ... Bunkspeed is and many more !
You have 3D World nr.101 read the nvidia buyout deal !
Peter |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2008, 1:17pm
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RAYMAN
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I wonder how much emphasis will be toward our needs as an artist vs. MicroSoft's competition with Google.
Steinie whats so bad about Sketchup ! A wonderful piece of tool
well made for artists. Google got it ! I´d wish Ts had some more of
Sketchups functionality ! Snapping and drag and drop from libraries with cutting holes in one go etc.:)
Peter |
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 1:19pm
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splinters
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Well Caligari has deeper pockets now that is for sure. I wonder how much emphasis will be toward our needs as an artist vs. MicroSoft's competition with Google. As a long time tS user I have a gut feeling my days of loving the software as we know it are almost over. I don't love any software Microsoft has ever written, period. They don't have a clue about a nice usable UI. So why not take over a Company that does?
I'm happy for Caligari and it's employees. I sure hope I'm proven wrong.
I had the same gut feeling as you Steinie, that is why I started this thread. A wholly owned subsidiary is one where the parent company own 100% stock of the subsidiary. The idea of Microsoft owning Caligari outright does leave me a little apprehensive.
I like your thoughts on the UI too. I wonder how many users were attracted to tS for it's quirky/intuitive UI (delete as appropriate).
...and somehow I don't see Microsoft asking me to make their icons in the near future...:rolleyes: ;) |
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 1:24pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Steinie whats so bad about Sketchup ! A wonderful piece of tool
well made for artists. Google got it ! I´d wish Ts had some more of
Sketchups functionality ! Snapping and drag and drop from libraries etc.:)
Peter
Nothing at all. One of the first apps I used in teaching was a program called Alias Upfront. Great for architectural stuff rather than product design, I still use it today for teaching simple CAD.
SketchUp is so called because it's creators loved that program too hence the 'Up' in the name. I loved using SketchUp for the first few releases but when it became google sketchup I lost interest. Same with Daz and it's endless poser content. I like to make things from scratch so they are individual and unique. Poser also has it's uses but it is hard to make truly unique stuff with it. |
Post by jayr // Feb 6, 2008, 1:25pm
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i have to say i share Splinter's and Steinie's concerns about this. Although it gives caligari more in terms of cash and resources i'm worried about what truespace will become.
Will it become a programmers play-thing? a sort of '3d game creator' or modding tool that ships with windows?
I know thats unlikely and i hope this helps roman and his team polish truspace into the program he want it to be. After all, tracktion did well after it as bought by mackie.
Maybe with more resourses all the bugs will be fixed, new features we've always wanted will be crammed into version 8 and having a hotline to the people who create direct x will make realtime viewing even better.
I hope so. I'd hate 7.51 to be a 'maybe it could have been something' piece of software. |
Post by splinters // Feb 6, 2008, 1:32pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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We might not be so apprehensive if there was any news about tS7.6 and beyond or what autonomy Roman/Caligari can retain.
The words 'owned 100% by microsoft' leave we wondering who will be directing the future of tS. This small friendly community of users could give way to a userbase of millions and the program would have to change accordingly.
Roman has steered tS for over 20 years and he deserves such rich success from his efforts, I am overjoyed for him. But I have to look out for my own interests too and when they rely on software I have invested time into with a view to the future, well...is it not normal to be a little apprehensive? |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 6, 2008, 1:35pm
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In my opinion it was a wise move by Roman. trueSpace will most likely stay the same for a long time (that is, an artist/developer 3D package.)
However, I feel that 3D is on the corner of a huge transition. It will be akin to what happened when Flash popped up on the scene.
When language like XAML, Silver Light and other unknown things, 3D is going to turn into something that is the next step beyond what we are used to now.
I can imagine the integration of the technologies previously mention with real time DX10 renders, Virtual Earth, business ventures, real estate, real time gaming where you can go to real locations via Virtual Earth and etc. The sky is the limit, because the engine to develop that experience will be in real time via trueSpace interface and those adapted by Microsoft in their products.
Popping up a real time view of map with a house and the interior floor plan with furniture - well, you get the picture on what an interior design, architect or an engineer could do with that.
time to eat!
and congrats again Roman! |
Post by Improv // Feb 6, 2008, 1:35pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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Mmmm, intersting news about Caligari becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft. Once the news has settled in, what does that mean for tS?
Is it to become integrated into the Microsoft software and cease to be a 3D app as we know it.
Damn, I go out for a few hours and this happens! <shock!>
So MS Virtual Earth is their version of Google Earth?
If Truespace is just going to have it's bones picked clean for stuff that VE can use, it's good by TrueSpace for me. I use MS when I have to, not because I want to. I don't hate MS, but they are one of those 'good enough' type companies.
I have no problem with this 'live collaboration' thing as PART of TS, I just don't want TS to become a VE Tools only.
On the other hand, there are plenty of other 3D software programs around, in all sorts of price ranges. So if worst comes to worst, I'll just move on. This is just a fun hobby for me, so no big deal.
Maybe I am missing something but I see 3DS Max, Alias, Bryce, Poser etc. etc. being bought up by large companies and then slowly integrated into their infastructure until it is no longer recognisable.
3DS Max, Alias (Maya) and recently Skymatter Mudbox have all been bought up by Autodesk.
I am a little concerned really and would like further details if possible...:(
Yes indeed, it makes me more than a little uncomfortable, and already want to look at alternatives, of which there are many.
Hey, Houdini works on both windows and Linux and now starts at $100! Hmmm.... :lol: |
Post by Improv // Feb 6, 2008, 1:42pm
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Improv
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...and somehow I don't see Microsoft asking me to make their icons in the near future...:rolleyes: ;)
So tell us, how do you feel about making dancing paperclips!
(Sorry!) :D |
Post by mykyl1966 // Feb 6, 2008, 1:51pm
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mykyl1966
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The good news is this. They can now afford to just upgrade us to 7.6 for free. :D
Its worth a try isn't it? ;)
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by jayr // Feb 6, 2008, 1:53pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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Hey, Houdini works on both windows and Linux and now starts at $100! Hmmm.... :lol:
i think thats another problem Ts has had lately, big software packages releasing cut down versions, why buy truespace when you can buy something with a recognisable name and upgrade path.
Hopefully this deal with methistopheles will give Caligari the tools to fight back, if not...... |
Post by jayr // Feb 6, 2008, 1:53pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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The good news is this. They can now afford to just upgrade us to 7.6 for free. :D
Its worth a try isn't it? ;)
Cheers
Mike R
i like your thinking :D |
Post by Nephos // Feb 6, 2008, 1:56pm
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Nephos
Total Posts: 59
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Hmm xbox game devolpment tool....directx 10....
Nephos |
Post by ghost--scout // Feb 6, 2008, 2:29pm
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ghost--scout
Total Posts: 85
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It'd be awesome if they had DTED (Digital Terrain Elevation Data) that we could load in to truespace as an object, centered on a specific coordinate and trimmed down to the size we wanted. That's just my opinion! |
Post by behzad // Feb 6, 2008, 2:32pm
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Look at it this way, why would there be advanced modeling and rendering done anymore for TS, that includes advance animation, displacement and uv mapping and such?
Money speaks and when you got a big guy like Microsoft they want TS for their work only. They bought Softimage and could'nt do anything with it, now they see how they can use TS for their virtual world and that is where the focus will be.
I feel bad for you guys, TS 7 is good for a little while but not when 3d modeling and rendering advances with other companies, likes of carrara and modo. |
Post by transient // Feb 6, 2008, 2:51pm
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Frankly, Carrara isn't anywhere as good as Truespace now in most ways, and that's with TS's awful vray issues. I wonder sometimes why Carrara guys are so quick to blast TS, it really has a plethora of it's own problems to consider.
Modo costs about a billion dollars (and has it's own bug issues apparently), so no comparisons there. I agree it's excellent software otherwise though.
I don't know why Truespace 7 is being heckled from the bleachers by people who don't even own it, seems a bit premature to me.:confused:
Also, 3dsmax has always been owned by Autodesk. Autodesk was bought by Discreet at one point, but the software has always been owned and developed by the same people.
I'm quite interested in this development, but I have to ask Caligari to please work a lot harder on vray until it's at least in the same ballpark as other versions. |
Post by Délé // Feb 6, 2008, 3:05pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I can certainly understand the apprehension. We are all definitely wondering what all this will mean. Knowing Roman, I have to believe that it's a good thing. Definitely more funding is a good thing. We are all wondering what will happen down the road, but my gut feeling right now is "good things". :)
Personally, I think this quote is important.
Let me tell you right away that there were no compromises I had to make to accommodate our vision within the Virtual Earth platform, in fact I was challenged to increase the scope of our vision. |
Post by adriani // Feb 6, 2008, 4:10pm
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adriani
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Sorry but I am Worried about that ... and sad, I agree with Splinters...The same case of Bryce, Maya etc.... In Brazil the people who works with computers graphics pay hard with this...hummmm......Monopoly is a condition characterized by the market control...
I do not know about TS
:( |
Post by prodigy // Feb 6, 2008, 4:32pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Don't Worry Adriani, you are in Microsoft Blog. ;)
http://virtualearth.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!2BBC66E99FDCDB98!11432.entry |
Post by adriani // Feb 6, 2008, 4:53pm
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adriani
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Ok Prodigysoft 3D :) |
Post by prodigy // Feb 6, 2008, 4:59pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Have lot of work to do, but this new are jumping on my head and i can't get focused :(
This was like an Atomic Bomb.. I knew Roman there must be celebrating but we need better information.
At least we are customers.. |
Post by Burnart // Feb 6, 2008, 5:52pm
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Total Posts: 839
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I guess what we know at this point is that Caligari is continuing in some form. Presumably tS will also - at least in the short to medium term.
I'm wondering if the whole trueplace concept with its 3d community possibilities has a big potential role in this merger. Virtual shopping malls and consumer goods galleries with links to it on the virtual earth all as trueplace environments. Trueplace as a browser plugin etc.
Back to tS. Don't know if I could stand to learn a new 3d package over again - getting too old to learn new tricks! I think I'd just go for all the free stuff out there and never buy any 3d software - I am only a hobbiest after all. Spend more time painting instead.
Re. Microsoft .... I've always thought it was a good thing they never built planes - all those crashes! |
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